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Pictures stolen/taken, feeling taken advantage of
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Nov 25, 2014 16:31:03   #
Tea8 Loc: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plain.
 
I don't really have a photography business, but I have done a couple of sessions. With them I have known that basically they are just out to get what they can for the cheapest price. The first one was someone I had gone to high school with. We set an amount and I delivered the photos as I said I would and there wasn't much problem except that I didn't have her sign a contract. She was so happy with the family session photos I did and said she would be in contact to get more photos done. Since then she has used two other photographers to do pictures of her kids, so she's just going around getting the cheapest prices that she can from whoever will give them to her. Which will not be me.

On my other session, I am a little closer with them so I just had them pay me at the end of the session. However, they did sign a contract that I went over them with that day. On it have the agreed upon price for the session, the location of the shoot, the minimum amount of pics they would receive (I do a disc and then they can print what they want) and the maximum amount of pics they would get on a disc. I also have in my contract the explanation that they will receive full resolution images to print along with web versions. I will post four or five web versions as a sneak peek before they get the disc and then they are free to post any of the other images that they would like so long as it's only the web version that also has my logo on it. And if it's not I have the right to ask them to remove the images from wherever they are posted. I also give myself the right in that contract to use any of the photos as I choose as far as advertising and marketing and in a portfolio and they sign the contract.

Now what I've learned from all of these is that even though I haven't had major problems there will be a contract signed up front and I will be paid up front before I take any photos. Secondly, they are going to start getting less photos on that disc for the price I am giving them. (Right now I charge less because any sessions that I do are helping to build my portfolio and my experience, but I end up taking too much time doing even small edits on photos so they will now get less images.) So, you learn constantly and it's things where you get taken advantage of that helps you to learn. Yes, it sucks, but you live and you learn and then you get smarter about how you do things.

I know our situations are different since you charge per image, but like you have said already I would call her on the photos she has used already. I would tell her that she could pay you $70 and that would cover the 7 images that she liked enough to steal and post on facebook and then you can call it even. If she doesn't like that well then you can decide if you want to pursue things further. And from here on out make sure to get everything in writing whether it's coworkers, friends, or even family. (Yes, I will even have contracts signed by family from now on if I do decide to take on any kind of work for them.) It's the best thing to do, that way both parties understand what they are agreeing upon and if whoever you are doing the session for changes their mind you can say "well here it is in black and white and you signed it when we discussed it."

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Nov 25, 2014 16:40:35   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
mdorn wrote:
Honestly, I think you owe the client an apology for not handling things in a business like manner, and a big thank you for teaching you such a valuable lesson.


:thumbup: :thumbup:

Then there is the value of advertising - if others see the beautiful images, you can get your name (and reputation for quality) out there. I would not have had them taken down, and I might have cut a deal with the woman to let you put a small watermark on them and/or full attribution in return for some images.

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Nov 25, 2014 16:52:44   #
Marionsho Loc: Kansas
 
joe west wrote:
my opinion, call facebooks attention to it, she stole your pictures tell them and you want them removed..

Please refer to the post at 15:57:54 :D

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Nov 25, 2014 16:55:18   #
Marionsho Loc: Kansas
 
mdorn wrote:
Honestly, I think you owe the client an apology for not handling things in a business like manner, and a big thank you for teaching you such a valuable lesson.


Thanks for the post. I did some work for a guy....Not photography related, and got the shaft. So I'll use your words of wisdom.... If, and when, I ever see him again.

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Nov 25, 2014 17:00:34   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
Go for it!!! Who cares if she can (and probably will) ruin your reputation? Who cares if your work environment is a toxic waste dump? Who cares if she can make your life miserable -- oops, sorry, it seems she all ready has!? Who cares if your reputation among your co-workers will be shot?

Who cares? If you don't, then go for it.

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Nov 25, 2014 17:15:18   #
2nefoto
 
there is an old adage: "friends, family, business don't mix" I suppose co-workers are applicable in the adage. You were taken advantage of for sure. I agree that further discussion and bad mouthing her do you no real good. Watermark your work for your protection. If you intend to charge for your services to friends, get money in front. If it is business you intend, do it in a business manner.

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Nov 25, 2014 17:26:53   #
Bobbee
 
photoman022 wrote:
Go for it!!! Who cares if she can (and probably will) ruin your reputation? Who cares if your work environment is a toxic waste dump? Who cares if she can make your life miserable -- oops, sorry, it seems she all ready has!? Who cares if your reputation among your co-workers will be shot?

Who cares? If you don't, then go for it.


Last Great American Defiance



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Nov 25, 2014 17:54:44   #
jcboy3
 
She told you she wanted a CD of photos for less than her regular photographer. You said you didn't want to do that and prefer to do prints. But if she is looking for something cheap why would she want to do prints?

You didn't finalize a deal before doing the shoot, and then somehow she got a gallery of low res images?

As I see it, she wants a low budget deal and you don't.

I would take what she offers and give her the images. Tell her it's less than you would normally charge, but it was your mistake not to have a firm deal in place before doing the shoot. Because you did the shoot, you left her no options to get photos elsewhere. Don't leave a pissed off customer/coworker over a lack of communication on your part.

You can retain copyright if any of these pictures are worth using for other purposes, but I really can't imagine that's the case.

And next time, get agreement on a deal before doing the work. If you think you need a contract, then if it's for a friend/relative/coworker then don't do it. Who needs bad blood that close to home?

I explain how much work is involved, but if it's for a friend/relative or a close coworker, then I expect to be doing it on the cheap. I just tone down the quantity or quality of work.

Finally, if you are a hobbyist/enthusiast and not professional, then what's the big deal? You get experience shooting and processing, if they're good pictures (sounds like they are) you get bragging rights. And if you get a little money, then bonus. It's not your livelihood we're talking about, and in fact you just took work from someone who possibly does rely on the income.

Final word, look on the bright side; people like your pictures and you can get a little money for them. Don't look at it like your art is being ripped off; it's just a spec shoot for a person you know.

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Nov 25, 2014 18:13:37   #
mdorn Loc: Portland, OR
 
Gene51 wrote:
:thumbup: :thumbup:

Then there is the value of advertising - if others see the beautiful images, you can get your name (and reputation for quality) out there. I would not have had them taken down, and I might have cut a deal with the woman to let you put a small watermark on them and/or full attribution in return for some images.


:thumbup: :thumbup:
Totally agree. This "loss" is chump-change in photography terms.

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Nov 25, 2014 18:32:00   #
Doug B Loc: Edmonton Alberta
 
[quote=carlismycat]I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake)

She knew I did photography (hoggyist/enthusiest,whatever you wanna call it) and had seen my photos before . She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer what it costs for an entire disc of photos and what would I charge her? I said I prefer prints,

It is spilt milk. learn from it and move on.

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Nov 25, 2014 18:42:22   #
Ralloh Loc: Ohio
 
carlismycat wrote:
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake)

She knew I did photography (hoggyist/enthusiest,whatever you wanna call it) and had seen my photos before . She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer what it costs for an entire disc of photos and what would I charge her? I said I prefer prints, and don't like the idea of selling digital files on a disc. I told her I don't mind doing the photos and she can buy them per image, for $10. (per high resolution image.)
I thought $15. is a minimum fair amount but wanted to give her a discount.

After the shoot, she is showing the gallery (what I thought, but it could have been saved pictures to her phone) proofs to our other co workers, and raving about them. When she heard me say,that is only 15 , and there should be about 30 total when I'm done she said "I want a cd "

I didn't discuss it with her, because it was in the morning at work and had no time to talk. I was actually surprised because she acted like she couldn't afford a whole disc of images.

After work I saw her in the office that evening, and I said if you really want a disc with all the photos, It will be $200.00 assuming there will be 30 .
She pauses, looks shocked and made a funny sound. Then said ugh, That's way too much. I'll have to talk to my mom, and get back with you. I said well, I can do it for $180. ,and I explained she can make payments if she wants,do it by cc,or paypal if needed. She says nothing.

I get home,discuss it with my husband and we agreed it would be okay for me to lower it to $150. After all she is a co worker. But I won't go any lower than that. I spent a long time processing those photos from raws. I decided to go ahead and finish editing since I figured she'd love to have them ready before thanksgiving, and it would be a nice surprise since I told her it may take two weeks. I end up having 40+ photos ready for the online gallery and go ahead and post them all to it .

Then I text her that night explaining that I'll go down to $150, but no lower,and only this one time. (Did not tell her, but was going to go ahead and let her have all 40+) . I was starting to have a bad feeling about her because of her acting so strange,to change her mind about wanting a disc ,then complaining about the price.

So I said (in my text) next time I will have to charge a fee upfront and offered her a couple other options (package deals less images, for a less amount, if needed).

She doesn't get back to me for two days.
When she does she says she's sorry but had she known I would be so expensive she would have never done the shoot with me in the first place and should have gone with her "professional photographer" instead (the one she was complaining about not wanting to pay ). She said her photographer was cheaper. She said she will "give" me $40. and then I can just give her whatever I think is fair.

I did not charge a fee upfront because I was thinking I was helping her out, and allowing her to buy per image . So whether she wanted zero, or just a few it was Okay by me. Before the shoot, she & I verbally agreed $10. per image and did not discuss a price for a whole disc because that wasn't what she wanted.
I noticed only 1-2 days after I uploaded the proofs on pixieset, she had already saved 7 of them somehow (must have been screenshots by her phone,because its right click disabled) she made a collage of 6, posted it as her facebook cover photo,then used a 7th picture as her profile photo. I didn't think anything of it at first, until she said what she said to me in text.


After thinking about what she texted me, I started getting more and more angry,feeling used and then realized how dare she take photos off my gallery that were supposed to be proofs for choosing which ones she wanted to buy, then tell me She should have never used me in the first place "had she known" I would be so expensive. She AGREED to have the shoot done, and pay $10. per image (however many she wanted to buy) . She could have gotten ONE image and it would have been just $10.00 .
She's the one who changed HER mind and asked how much for a disc. She's got 7 of those pictures,and probably all 49 ,so at this point I don't even want her $ . I don't want her $40.00 because she stole $70 worth of pictures.

My mom told me I should go on her facebook, and in the comments under the pictures she posted , tell her that because they were never paid for,she should never had saved them from the pixieset website, and posted them to facebook. I did not even think to watermark them,because I really didn't think I had to protect myself from this happening. I can't believe a co worker can do this, and then work with me,and have no shame. She won't say a word to me about the shoot,at work,unless I bring it up. I'm not comfortable speaking to her about it at work,so I need to finish my email and send it and be done with it.

I am thinking of bringing up the fact that she agreed to $10.00 per image so her saying that "had she known " comment was unfair of her,because she DID know. She just wanted something else that we never discussed and wasn't happy with my answer. She took 7 of my pictures(probably more) from the proofs page and then "offers" to "give" me $40.00 for "whatever I think is fair" , so I want to bring that up and tell her very firmly that no, she agreed to $10. per picture so if she wants to spend $40. than she can get FOUR photos, per our agreement.
*However* , I don't understand why she would say she only wants to spend that much, if she has already taken at least $70 worth of my photos and already put them on her facebook page. I want to call her out on that too.

What do you think I should do ?
So I don't know if there is a way I can complain to facebook, to have them removed. Had she paid for them, it wouldn't have been a big deal. What makes me mad is she took them, then tells me how much she would paid me which is extremely insulting and rude, and shows she has no respect for me at all and probably never wanted to buy any in the first place. My friend thinks she used me on purpose to get pictures for facebook .
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake... (show quote)


Without looking at others responses, here is what I would do. Contact Facebook and let them know she "stole" your photos off your gallery. Tell them you can prove they are yours since you have the original RAW files and you want them removed from her Facebook page. Take all of them off your web gallery, or, make them only accessible by you, if you can do that.

I would let her know exactly what I have done and that she violated copyright laws. Believe me, I'm not bashful about saying stuff like this to someone no matter who they are.

I would finally let her know, she no longer has access to the photos but that you are still willing to let her have them at the $150 price. Let her know she has two weeks to decide and if you do not get an answer, you will permanently delete them.

Put the ball in her court. Just remember though, you will no longer have any kind of relationship with this thief, but, so what.

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Nov 25, 2014 18:45:46   #
mdorn Loc: Portland, OR
 
Ralloh wrote:
Just remember though, you will no longer have any kind of relationship with this thief, but, so what.


Yeah, so what... no skin off your back. She only has to work with this other woman. :-)

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Nov 25, 2014 19:27:35   #
Fred A Loc: Clark, New Jersey
 
Sad there are people like that. Wonder what she did to other people involved with affair. I'm an electrical contractor and was called in to a house as their son in law almost burnt the house down. Spent two hours there and charged them $200.00. The said only going to pay $100.00 as it was their son in laws fault. As I left the house I past their 3 brand new Caddy's in garage I was perplexed. I have walked into other peoples house many times and have seen they had real financial problems and charged them nothing. In your case she wanted it for free. A photographer is a big expense and well worth it. Wonder if other girl was a figment of her imagination. Thanks for the good lesson. The worst people to work for is friends and family. Just let it go. Karma is real "what goes around comes around". If this was a wedding, the Groom already has a problem. Just asking "did they feed you"?

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Nov 25, 2014 19:42:13   #
Ralloh Loc: Ohio
 
Fred A wrote:
Sad there are people like that. Wonder what she did to other people involved with affair. I'm an electrical contractor and was called in to a house as their son in law almost burnt the house down. Spent two hours there and charged them $200.00. The said only going to pay $100.00 as it was their son in laws fault. As I left the house I past their 3 brand new Caddy's in garage I was perplexed. I have walked into other peoples house many times and have seen they had real financial problems and charged them nothing. In your case she wanted it for free. A photographer is a big expense and well worth it. Wonder if other girl was a figment of her imagination. Thanks for the good lesson. The worst people to work for is friends and family. Just let it go. Karma is real "what goes around comes around". If this was a wedding, the Groom already has a problem. Just asking "did they feed you"?
Sad there are people like that. Wonder what she di... (show quote)


How I can relate to that. My business was installing residential and commercial telephone systems for 23 years. I ran across this all the time. You give a price, do the work, then they want to pay less or have you do more for no more money. I always stood firm. One particular ethnic group from a certain region of the world were the absolute worst. I cringed every time I did a job for one of them.

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Nov 25, 2014 21:06:45   #
carlismycat Loc: united states
 
I was at work all day,checking in here periodically. Earlier today I had facebook remove those photos and they removed them rather quickly.

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