Pictures stolen/taken, feeling taken advantage of
Nov 24, 2014 21:54:58 #
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake)
She knew I did photography (hoggyist/enthusiest,whatever you wanna call it) and had seen my photos before . She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer what it costs for an entire disc of photos and what would I charge her? I said I prefer prints, and don't like the idea of selling digital files on a disc. I told her I don't mind doing the photos and she can buy them per image, for $10. (per high resolution image.)
I thought $15. is a minimum fair amount but wanted to give her a discount.
After the shoot, she is showing the gallery (what I thought, but it could have been saved pictures to her phone) proofs to our other co workers, and raving about them. When she heard me say,that is only 15 , and there should be about 30 total when I'm done she said "I want a cd "
I didn't discuss it with her, because it was in the morning at work and had no time to talk. I was actually surprised because she acted like she couldn't afford a whole disc of images.
After work I saw her in the office that evening, and I said if you really want a disc with all the photos, It will be $200.00 assuming there will be 30 .
She pauses, looks shocked and made a funny sound. Then said ugh, That's way too much. I'll have to talk to my mom, and get back with you. I said well, I can do it for $180. ,and I explained she can make payments if she wants,do it by cc,or paypal if needed. She says nothing.
I get home,discuss it with my husband and we agreed it would be okay for me to lower it to $150. After all she is a co worker. But I won't go any lower than that. I spent a long time processing those photos from raws. I decided to go ahead and finish editing since I figured she'd love to have them ready before thanksgiving, and it would be a nice surprise since I told her it may take two weeks. I end up having 40+ photos ready for the online gallery and go ahead and post them all to it .
Then I text her that night explaining that I'll go down to $150, but no lower,and only this one time. (Did not tell her, but was going to go ahead and let her have all 40+) . I was starting to have a bad feeling about her because of her acting so strange,to change her mind about wanting a disc ,then complaining about the price.
So I said (in my text) next time I will have to charge a fee upfront and offered her a couple other options (package deals less images, for a less amount, if needed).
She doesn't get back to me for two days.
When she does she says she's sorry but had she known I would be so expensive she would have never done the shoot with me in the first place and should have gone with her "professional photographer" instead (the one she was complaining about not wanting to pay ). She said her photographer was cheaper. She said she will "give" me $40. and then I can just give her whatever I think is fair.
I did not charge a fee upfront because I was thinking I was helping her out, and allowing her to buy per image . So whether she wanted zero, or just a few it was Okay by me. Before the shoot, she & I verbally agreed $10. per image and did not discuss a price for a whole disc because that wasn't what she wanted.
I noticed only 1-2 days after I uploaded the proofs on pixieset, she had already saved 7 of them somehow (must have been screenshots by her phone,because its right click disabled) she made a collage of 6, posted it as her facebook cover photo,then used a 7th picture as her profile photo. I didn't think anything of it at first, until she said what she said to me in text.
After thinking about what she texted me, I started getting more and more angry,feeling used and then realized how dare she take photos off my gallery that were supposed to be proofs for choosing which ones she wanted to buy, then tell me She should have never used me in the first place "had she known" I would be so expensive. She AGREED to have the shoot done, and pay $10. per image (however many she wanted to buy) . She could have gotten ONE image and it would have been just $10.00 .
She's the one who changed HER mind and asked how much for a disc. She's got 7 of those pictures,and probably all 49 ,so at this point I don't even want her $ . I don't want her $40.00 because she stole $70 worth of pictures.
My mom told me I should go on her facebook, and in the comments under the pictures she posted , tell her that because they were never paid for,she should never had saved them from the pixieset website, and posted them to facebook. I did not even think to watermark them,because I really didn't think I had to protect myself from this happening. I can't believe a co worker can do this, and then work with me,and have no shame. She won't say a word to me about the shoot,at work,unless I bring it up. I'm not comfortable speaking to her about it at work,so I need to finish my email and send it and be done with it.
I am thinking of bringing up the fact that she agreed to $10.00 per image so her saying that "had she known " comment was unfair of her,because she DID know. She just wanted something else that we never discussed and wasn't happy with my answer. She took 7 of my pictures(probably more) from the proofs page and then "offers" to "give" me $40.00 for "whatever I think is fair" , so I want to bring that up and tell her very firmly that no, she agreed to $10. per picture so if she wants to spend $40. than she can get FOUR photos, per our agreement.
*However* , I don't understand why she would say she only wants to spend that much, if she has already taken at least $70 worth of my photos and already put them on her facebook page. I want to call her out on that too.
What do you think I should do ?
So I don't know if there is a way I can complain to facebook, to have them removed. Had she paid for them, it wouldn't have been a big deal. What makes me mad is she took them, then tells me how much she would paid me which is extremely insulting and rude, and shows she has no respect for me at all and probably never wanted to buy any in the first place. My friend thinks she used me on purpose to get pictures for facebook .
She knew I did photography (hoggyist/enthusiest,whatever you wanna call it) and had seen my photos before . She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer what it costs for an entire disc of photos and what would I charge her? I said I prefer prints, and don't like the idea of selling digital files on a disc. I told her I don't mind doing the photos and she can buy them per image, for $10. (per high resolution image.)
I thought $15. is a minimum fair amount but wanted to give her a discount.
After the shoot, she is showing the gallery (what I thought, but it could have been saved pictures to her phone) proofs to our other co workers, and raving about them. When she heard me say,that is only 15 , and there should be about 30 total when I'm done she said "I want a cd "
I didn't discuss it with her, because it was in the morning at work and had no time to talk. I was actually surprised because she acted like she couldn't afford a whole disc of images.
After work I saw her in the office that evening, and I said if you really want a disc with all the photos, It will be $200.00 assuming there will be 30 .
She pauses, looks shocked and made a funny sound. Then said ugh, That's way too much. I'll have to talk to my mom, and get back with you. I said well, I can do it for $180. ,and I explained she can make payments if she wants,do it by cc,or paypal if needed. She says nothing.
I get home,discuss it with my husband and we agreed it would be okay for me to lower it to $150. After all she is a co worker. But I won't go any lower than that. I spent a long time processing those photos from raws. I decided to go ahead and finish editing since I figured she'd love to have them ready before thanksgiving, and it would be a nice surprise since I told her it may take two weeks. I end up having 40+ photos ready for the online gallery and go ahead and post them all to it .
Then I text her that night explaining that I'll go down to $150, but no lower,and only this one time. (Did not tell her, but was going to go ahead and let her have all 40+) . I was starting to have a bad feeling about her because of her acting so strange,to change her mind about wanting a disc ,then complaining about the price.
So I said (in my text) next time I will have to charge a fee upfront and offered her a couple other options (package deals less images, for a less amount, if needed).
She doesn't get back to me for two days.
When she does she says she's sorry but had she known I would be so expensive she would have never done the shoot with me in the first place and should have gone with her "professional photographer" instead (the one she was complaining about not wanting to pay ). She said her photographer was cheaper. She said she will "give" me $40. and then I can just give her whatever I think is fair.
I did not charge a fee upfront because I was thinking I was helping her out, and allowing her to buy per image . So whether she wanted zero, or just a few it was Okay by me. Before the shoot, she & I verbally agreed $10. per image and did not discuss a price for a whole disc because that wasn't what she wanted.
I noticed only 1-2 days after I uploaded the proofs on pixieset, she had already saved 7 of them somehow (must have been screenshots by her phone,because its right click disabled) she made a collage of 6, posted it as her facebook cover photo,then used a 7th picture as her profile photo. I didn't think anything of it at first, until she said what she said to me in text.
After thinking about what she texted me, I started getting more and more angry,feeling used and then realized how dare she take photos off my gallery that were supposed to be proofs for choosing which ones she wanted to buy, then tell me She should have never used me in the first place "had she known" I would be so expensive. She AGREED to have the shoot done, and pay $10. per image (however many she wanted to buy) . She could have gotten ONE image and it would have been just $10.00 .
She's the one who changed HER mind and asked how much for a disc. She's got 7 of those pictures,and probably all 49 ,so at this point I don't even want her $ . I don't want her $40.00 because she stole $70 worth of pictures.
My mom told me I should go on her facebook, and in the comments under the pictures she posted , tell her that because they were never paid for,she should never had saved them from the pixieset website, and posted them to facebook. I did not even think to watermark them,because I really didn't think I had to protect myself from this happening. I can't believe a co worker can do this, and then work with me,and have no shame. She won't say a word to me about the shoot,at work,unless I bring it up. I'm not comfortable speaking to her about it at work,so I need to finish my email and send it and be done with it.
I am thinking of bringing up the fact that she agreed to $10.00 per image so her saying that "had she known " comment was unfair of her,because she DID know. She just wanted something else that we never discussed and wasn't happy with my answer. She took 7 of my pictures(probably more) from the proofs page and then "offers" to "give" me $40.00 for "whatever I think is fair" , so I want to bring that up and tell her very firmly that no, she agreed to $10. per picture so if she wants to spend $40. than she can get FOUR photos, per our agreement.
*However* , I don't understand why she would say she only wants to spend that much, if she has already taken at least $70 worth of my photos and already put them on her facebook page. I want to call her out on that too.
What do you think I should do ?
So I don't know if there is a way I can complain to facebook, to have them removed. Had she paid for them, it wouldn't have been a big deal. What makes me mad is she took them, then tells me how much she would paid me which is extremely insulting and rude, and shows she has no respect for me at all and probably never wanted to buy any in the first place. My friend thinks she used me on purpose to get pictures for facebook .
Nov 24, 2014 22:11:39 #
Nov 24, 2014 22:15:35 #
carlismycat wrote:
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake... (show quote)
just fyi.. Its not hard to remove right click blockers if you're webdeveloper or tech savy.
I honestly would suggest you use watermarks or low resolution images next time.
Nov 24, 2014 22:17:43 #
Oh I will be from now on. But when it comes to showing "proofs" or images that someone can choose from, to buy, I won't be putting them online at all. They can meet me in person, and look at them in print form, or on my tablet.
Nov 24, 2014 22:49:20 #
That's a shame.
If I were in your situation, I'd make sure to keep any discussion of the matter far removed from the workplace. Too much potential for it to get ugly.
I've seen outside business between coworkers turn very ugly.
If I were in your situation, I'd make sure to keep any discussion of the matter far removed from the workplace. Too much potential for it to get ugly.
I've seen outside business between coworkers turn very ugly.
Nov 24, 2014 22:53:44 #
I have not told any one about it at work. I don't want to. I did consider telling my boss, so he would know why I don't ever want to work with her again (on the same work truck) .
Either way, if she is unhappy, she will tell people at work herself. I'm in the middle of writing out an email to her about it.
Either way, if she is unhappy, she will tell people at work herself. I'm in the middle of writing out an email to her about it.
Nov 24, 2014 23:03:15 #
lighthouse
Loc: No Fixed Abode
So, you have discovered the strength of "word of mouth" contracts and how trustworthy acquaintences are when they use you because you their normal photog is "too expensive".
You can file a DCMA takedown report with facebook.
You can superglue her deskdrawers shut with a week old herring in one of them and several open bottles of indian ink in the other so that when she finally pulls it open looking for the smell, stuff goes everywhere, you can take one of the wheels off her swivel chair, you can stick a potato in her exhaust pipe, you can leave the lid off her marking pens, you can nail/staple her handbag to the floor so that when she picks it up she rips the handles off it, you can adjust her chair so that it is uncomfortable and put black goopy grease on the adjustment handles, you can pour milk down her doorskins on her car, you can take page 5 and page 11 out of that 20 page document she has to show the boss so that it makes no sense, you can "format C" her computer.
You can have much more fun than $400 worth.
You can file a DCMA takedown report with facebook.
You can superglue her deskdrawers shut with a week old herring in one of them and several open bottles of indian ink in the other so that when she finally pulls it open looking for the smell, stuff goes everywhere, you can take one of the wheels off her swivel chair, you can stick a potato in her exhaust pipe, you can leave the lid off her marking pens, you can nail/staple her handbag to the floor so that when she picks it up she rips the handles off it, you can adjust her chair so that it is uncomfortable and put black goopy grease on the adjustment handles, you can pour milk down her doorskins on her car, you can take page 5 and page 11 out of that 20 page document she has to show the boss so that it makes no sense, you can "format C" her computer.
You can have much more fun than $400 worth.
Nov 24, 2014 23:07:16 #
:roll: :roll: Here we go again.
If half the time you spent composing this rant was spent writing a simple contract, you would not be facing this situation.
Don't shoot for co-workers, friends, or family unless you're ready to give away your work. Especially at a discount.
Sure, it sounds like she's being a bitch about it, but you left the door open.
Forget about sending her another email. Forget about talking to your supervisor. Forget about pursuing this (for $40?). Write it off as experience and move on.
If half the time you spent composing this rant was spent writing a simple contract, you would not be facing this situation.
Don't shoot for co-workers, friends, or family unless you're ready to give away your work. Especially at a discount.
Sure, it sounds like she's being a bitch about it, but you left the door open.
Forget about sending her another email. Forget about talking to your supervisor. Forget about pursuing this (for $40?). Write it off as experience and move on.
Nov 24, 2014 23:12:23 #
lighthouse wrote:
You can superglue her deskdrawers shut ....
etc., etc., etc.,
I like the way SS thinks, just be advised you'll probably be giving up your job, your career, and probalby any remaining friends.
Nov 24, 2014 23:14:55 #
lighthouse
Loc: No Fixed Abode
OddJobber wrote:
etc., etc., etc.,
I like the way SS thinks, just be advised you'll probably be giving up your job, your career, and probalby any remaining friends.
I like the way SS thinks, just be advised you'll probably be giving up your job, your career, and probalby any remaining friends.
Actually don't blame SS, it was me.
I didn't advocate being open about it, much subterfuge and secrecy required. Heck, get some friends and workmates in on the act as well if they are trustworthy.
Nov 24, 2014 23:19:34 #
Nov 24, 2014 23:21:49 #
I'm not pursuing any money. I don't want her money. I am just going to call her out on what she did. She agreed to one type of pricing. Then when she asked about something different,which was not what we agreed on ,she got mad and acted like I blind sighted her with the cost of a disc. because she was probably expecting something really low ball cheap.
We did not agree to shooting for a entire disc of photos. She said she couldn't afford that, so I offered to sell her 1 image at $10. each. She wasn't obligated to buy any at all. She TOOK 7 of them, and then tried to throw $40. at me for "whatever I think is fair" . I'm going to decline her offer of $40. and point out to her that she already took 7 and that is stealing.
I am not going to lose any friends over that. I'm not friends with my co workers. So what if my co workers (HER friends) get mad at me. I'm not scared of that. They are already haters to begin with, when it comes to work related stuff. LOL, yeah right... funny about me losing my job over that. My boss is not going to fire me over something like that. I'm glad I don't work somewhere that does do that. wow .
We did not agree to shooting for a entire disc of photos. She said she couldn't afford that, so I offered to sell her 1 image at $10. each. She wasn't obligated to buy any at all. She TOOK 7 of them, and then tried to throw $40. at me for "whatever I think is fair" . I'm going to decline her offer of $40. and point out to her that she already took 7 and that is stealing.
I am not going to lose any friends over that. I'm not friends with my co workers. So what if my co workers (HER friends) get mad at me. I'm not scared of that. They are already haters to begin with, when it comes to work related stuff. LOL, yeah right... funny about me losing my job over that. My boss is not going to fire me over something like that. I'm glad I don't work somewhere that does do that. wow .
Nov 24, 2014 23:24:00 #
carlismycat wrote:
I have not told any one about it at work. I don't want to. I did consider telling my boss, so he would know why I don't ever want to work with her again (on the same work truck) .
Either way, if she is unhappy, she will tell people at work herself. I'm in the middle of writing out an email to her about it.
Either way, if she is unhappy, she will tell people at work herself. I'm in the middle of writing out an email to her about it.
I sincerely hope you don't send that email!
None of this is worth losing a working relationship over. The other party has made some very simple mistakes, none of which are surprising in the slightest! She is neither a photographer nor an IP lawyer. You made some very naive assumptions and even more mistakes than the other party! You are a photographer and it is your responsibility to prevent these situations by being smart to begin with! But alas, you are human and not an IP lawyer either...
Let it go, do not cause any ill will and do not say or do anything that gives away your current state of mind.
And then learn from your mistakes. People do not understand the cost, people do not understand the effort, people do not understand Intellectual Property. Do not put anything on the Internet that you can't afford (or don't want) to have "stolen", because that is exactly what will happen. If necesary, learn how to post only very poor quality (small pixel dimension) proofs with a prominant watermark of some kind that totally destroys the value of the image. Generally 900x600 is about the largest you'd want to post, and a middle gray "proof" mark right across the face is about right.
Also it is a good idea to put a text disclaimer on any webpage with images. It should state that all images are copyrighted, and that permission is granted only for viewing and that no image should be distributed or printed.
And please note that if you can view an image, the fact is you've downloaded it already. Capturing it to a file may be annoyingly complex, but it can be done.
Nov 24, 2014 23:31:14 #
lighthouse wrote:
Actually don't blame SS, it was me.
I didn't advocate being open about it, much subterfuge and secrecy required. Heck, get some friends and workmates in on the act as well if they are trustworthy.
I didn't advocate being open about it, much subterfuge and secrecy required. Heck, get some friends and workmates in on the act as well if they are trustworthy.
I'm not going to get into the argument as to the value of revenge; just remember that most of the ideas suggested affect company equipment, environment and operations. This is between the OP and her co-worker as individuals; bring it into the office and I can guarantee who will lose.
Nov 24, 2014 23:36:16 #
Apaflo, they were 900x600 . I think that is smart about not letting anyone on about my current state of mind. Time after time people have proven to me they just can't be reasoned with,no matter what.
But she sent me a text Sunday night, and I replied saying that I would email her. I have not text or emailed back yet. I feel like she might be waiting on an answer from me about what she can get for the $40. she wanted to spend. That is if I give her the benefit of the doubt,and she is being sincere. I just don't trust people any more,and my instincts are telling me she was just trying to be polite because she really did not want any at all,and maybe she felt obligated to buying something. She was never obligated to buy anything. I was upset because if she doesn't want to buy any,she shouldn't be copying them to her facebook. That is why I felt used.
But she sent me a text Sunday night, and I replied saying that I would email her. I have not text or emailed back yet. I feel like she might be waiting on an answer from me about what she can get for the $40. she wanted to spend. That is if I give her the benefit of the doubt,and she is being sincere. I just don't trust people any more,and my instincts are telling me she was just trying to be polite because she really did not want any at all,and maybe she felt obligated to buying something. She was never obligated to buy anything. I was upset because if she doesn't want to buy any,she shouldn't be copying them to her facebook. That is why I felt used.
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