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Pictures stolen/taken, feeling taken advantage of
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Nov 25, 2014 08:36:08   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
Don't bother with nailing her on facebook, at least under her name, she will simply remove it and likely block you. Over time this will catch up with her and she will end up on the shit list of thief's.

I would go with big water marks on the proofs. They will still be able to tell what the picture will look like. This way they can confer as a family.

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 09:03:44   #
JCam Loc: MD Eastern Shore
 
It's only 8:45 Am and there are already four pages of replies, so your situation definitely touched some nerves!

In addition to adding my sympathies for your situation, id like to empathize two points for the future:
(1)Don't undervalue your work, especially for a contract shoot, and $10 per print or even $15.00 IMHO is way too low. Even if you only valued your time @ $40.00, that equates to 15 minutes per photo! You probably have more time than that invested in PP, not to mention the time for the shoot, &
(2) Remember, "no good deed goes unpunished".

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 09:12:10   #
Bob Grove
 
Sometimes you simply roll with the punches. As a certified appraiser, I once did an extensive appraisal of an antique furniture collection along with attendant photography. When I presented her my formal appraisal package along with the $2000 fee, she said she didn't think my appraisal values were high enough, so she didn't pay me. That was that. It never happened again even though I didn't change either my fees or payment policy.

Reply
 
 
Nov 25, 2014 09:15:59   #
DVJ
 
I would have been suspicious from the start, when your "client" asked you to take the photos to avoid paying her regular photographer. If someone tells me that they are hiring me in order to cheat someone else, I would immediately realize that this is not an honest person -- and there is no reason why I wouldn't be next in line to get cheated!

There is a saying that you cannot cheat an honest person.

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 09:25:27   #
Wahawk Loc: NE IA
 
carlismycat wrote:
"your charging less is only hurting their business by giving customers the impression that they will get the same results for far less money. This is not good for you, for them or the industry."
That is what her "Professional Photographer" is doing ,not me. I produce better photos than her photographer (I recently viewed this other lady's work) and I am MORE expensive, not less expensive than this other lady. I did not know she was less expensive though, until my co worker complained and said she was less. The per image rate I gave her was a good deal but still not super cheap considering what is the "norm" or popular for my area. My area is flooded with shoot&burn photogs giving away discs for $150. And under or doing pictures for free.

I agree about her misbehaving because she did not respect me as a Pro. Its interesting how making someone pay a upfront fee or signing paperwork makes them "behave" .

Here is a hidden album to the pictures. I know Im far from perfect. I can't do photo shop so I only use Lightroom. Some of them I dont care for but she wanted those poses .

http://christineschreiber.smugmug.com/Photograhpy/Fall-photos/n-jcDTr/

I am filing a report with facebook. And will be sending her a short , to the point email . I almost was not. But I have a friend who is going to law school and she is doing photography too so she did her own research and she said I need to say something to this girl.
"your charging less is only hurting their bus... (show quote)


Definitely worth more than $10 ea for the files!!! That would be a proper price for 5x7 prints! Very good work!!

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 09:52:21   #
Jim Peters Loc: Pittsburgh
 
Key Thing Here Is To Learn From You Mistakes.We Always Present All Fees Up Front,Have The Customer Sign A Contract,All Proofs Are Watermarked Lo Res.Everything Is Signed In Writhing. This Way We Have Legal Proof. This Is Also A Communicating Tool. And We Always Stick To Our Price.
Anything You Do Now Just Starts A War Of Hear Say And Can Do More Damage To Your Reputation Than You Realize.We Have Never Had A Non Collectable In The 40 Plus Years We Have Been In The Business.If You Selling Your Work, You Are A Professional And Need To Handle It In A Business Like Manner,Be It Friends Family Or Coworkers. You Deserve That Respect From Everyone.

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 09:54:45   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
It is a lesson learned the hard way. Let it go, know you can never trust her and for that matter any one. Finally a huge mistake is bartering your fee. You devalued your work yourself. Once you have a price stick to it. If they want to pay less then provide less service. I face this all the time as an Architect as people do not fully understand what I do they think it is some pretty pictures I draw. I set a fair fee, if they don't like it then they can move on or negotiate a different set of services.
Do not devalue yourself, as once you do that, you let the client know you had too high a price to start with and that your work is not really worth what you said it is.

Reply
 
 
Nov 25, 2014 09:59:23   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
You learned a lesson about the importance of a contract.

You learned a lesson about not doing business with a business associate

You learned that a get me back can be very expensive especially if the client can get you back on the job.

You learned that in this instance to do nothing because whatever you do can come back and bite you in the a$$!






carlismycat wrote:
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake)

She knew I did photography (hoggyist/enthusiest,whatever you wanna call it) and had seen my photos before . She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer what it costs for an entire disc of photos and what would I charge her? I said I prefer prints, and don't like the idea of selling digital files on a disc. I told her I don't mind doing the photos and she can buy them per image, for $10. (per high resolution image.)
I thought $15. is a minimum fair amount but wanted to give her a discount.

After the shoot, she is showing the gallery (what I thought, but it could have been saved pictures to her phone) proofs to our other co workers, and raving about them. When she heard me say,that is only 15 , and there should be about 30 total when I'm done she said "I want a cd "

I didn't discuss it with her, because it was in the morning at work and had no time to talk. I was actually surprised because she acted like she couldn't afford a whole disc of images.

After work I saw her in the office that evening, and I said if you really want a disc with all the photos, It will be $200.00 assuming there will be 30 .
She pauses, looks shocked and made a funny sound. Then said ugh, That's way too much. I'll have to talk to my mom, and get back with you. I said well, I can do it for $180. ,and I explained she can make payments if she wants,do it by cc,or paypal if needed. She says nothing.

I get home,discuss it with my husband and we agreed it would be okay for me to lower it to $150. After all she is a co worker. But I won't go any lower than that. I spent a long time processing those photos from raws. I decided to go ahead and finish editing since I figured she'd love to have them ready before thanksgiving, and it would be a nice surprise since I told her it may take two weeks. I end up having 40+ photos ready for the online gallery and go ahead and post them all to it .

Then I text her that night explaining that I'll go down to $150, but no lower,and only this one time. (Did not tell her, but was going to go ahead and let her have all 40+) . I was starting to have a bad feeling about her because of her acting so strange,to change her mind about wanting a disc ,then complaining about the price.

So I said (in my text) next time I will have to charge a fee upfront and offered her a couple other options (package deals less images, for a less amount, if needed).

She doesn't get back to me for two days.
When she does she says she's sorry but had she known I would be so expensive she would have never done the shoot with me in the first place and should have gone with her "professional photographer" instead (the one she was complaining about not wanting to pay ). She said her photographer was cheaper. She said she will "give" me $40. and then I can just give her whatever I think is fair.

I did not charge a fee upfront because I was thinking I was helping her out, and allowing her to buy per image . So whether she wanted zero, or just a few it was Okay by me. Before the shoot, she & I verbally agreed $10. per image and did not discuss a price for a whole disc because that wasn't what she wanted.
I noticed only 1-2 days after I uploaded the proofs on pixieset, she had already saved 7 of them somehow (must have been screenshots by her phone,because its right click disabled) she made a collage of 6, posted it as her facebook cover photo,then used a 7th picture as her profile photo. I didn't think anything of it at first, until she said what she said to me in text.


After thinking about what she texted me, I started getting more and more angry,feeling used and then realized how dare she take photos off my gallery that were supposed to be proofs for choosing which ones she wanted to buy, then tell me She should have never used me in the first place "had she known" I would be so expensive. She AGREED to have the shoot done, and pay $10. per image (however many she wanted to buy) . She could have gotten ONE image and it would have been just $10.00 .
She's the one who changed HER mind and asked how much for a disc. She's got 7 of those pictures,and probably all 49 ,so at this point I don't even want her $ . I don't want her $40.00 because she stole $70 worth of pictures.

My mom told me I should go on her facebook, and in the comments under the pictures she posted , tell her that because they were never paid for,she should never had saved them from the pixieset website, and posted them to facebook. I did not even think to watermark them,because I really didn't think I had to protect myself from this happening. I can't believe a co worker can do this, and then work with me,and have no shame. She won't say a word to me about the shoot,at work,unless I bring it up. I'm not comfortable speaking to her about it at work,so I need to finish my email and send it and be done with it.

I am thinking of bringing up the fact that she agreed to $10.00 per image so her saying that "had she known " comment was unfair of her,because she DID know. She just wanted something else that we never discussed and wasn't happy with my answer. She took 7 of my pictures(probably more) from the proofs page and then "offers" to "give" me $40.00 for "whatever I think is fair" , so I want to bring that up and tell her very firmly that no, she agreed to $10. per picture so if she wants to spend $40. than she can get FOUR photos, per our agreement.
*However* , I don't understand why she would say she only wants to spend that much, if she has already taken at least $70 worth of my photos and already put them on her facebook page. I want to call her out on that too.

What do you think I should do ?
So I don't know if there is a way I can complain to facebook, to have them removed. Had she paid for them, it wouldn't have been a big deal. What makes me mad is she took them, then tells me how much she would paid me which is extremely insulting and rude, and shows she has no respect for me at all and probably never wanted to buy any in the first place. My friend thinks she used me on purpose to get pictures for facebook .
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 10:06:10   #
agillot
 
i would give her a big thank you , you have learn a cheap lesson .now from now on you know what to do .just walk away from this situation so it does not poison your life

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 10:10:55   #
redhogbill Loc: antelope, calif
 
[quote=carlismycat

" She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer " "quote from co-worker"

when you listen to people talk, "they will tell you there intention"!!!!

take the loss, chalk it up to experience , it could have been worse!!

"besides, revenge is best served cold" if the experience is not enough!!
good luck

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 10:11:39   #
fyrlife
 
A lot of people are users and think just because you do Photography that it is "free". I recently agreed to do a retirement party shoot for a relative I was not especially close to, but wanted to do a favor for my cousin. No money involved, but since I did not get to eat, due to taking shots, and spending my afternoon there, a thank you would have been nice after I spent processing time and put them on a CD (120 pics. I got a big nothing, never heard a word, good, bad or indifferent. In the end, friend or not, get a contract and watermark/copyright your images. "No good deed goes unpunished"

Reply
 
 
Nov 25, 2014 10:17:00   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
lighthouse wrote:
Actually don't blame SS, it was me.
I didn't advocate being open about it, much subterfuge and secrecy required. Heck, get some friends and workmates in on the act as well if they are trustworthy.


Never involve others in a crime. They will talk just as the sun rises each day.

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 10:19:26   #
redhogbill Loc: antelope, calif
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Never involve others in a crime. They will talk just as the sun rises each day.





:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 10:29:48   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
carlismycat wrote:
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake)

She knew I did photography (hoggyist/enthusiest,whatever you wanna call it) and had seen my photos before . She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer what it costs for an entire disc of photos and what would I charge her? I said I prefer prints, and don't like the idea of selling digital files on a disc. I told her I don't mind doing the photos and she can buy them per image, for $10. (per high resolution image.)
I thought $15. is a minimum fair amount but wanted to give her a discount.

After the shoot, she is showing the gallery (what I thought, but it could have been saved pictures to her phone) proofs to our other co workers, and raving about them. When she heard me say,that is only 15 , and there should be about 30 total when I'm done she said "I want a cd "

I didn't discuss it with her, because it was in the morning at work and had no time to talk. I was actually surprised because she acted like she couldn't afford a whole disc of images.

After work I saw her in the office that evening, and I said if you really want a disc with all the photos, It will be $200.00 assuming there will be 30 .
She pauses, looks shocked and made a funny sound. Then said ugh, That's way too much. I'll have to talk to my mom, and get back with you. I said well, I can do it for $180. ,and I explained she can make payments if she wants,do it by cc,or paypal if needed. She says nothing.

I get home,discuss it with my husband and we agreed it would be okay for me to lower it to $150. After all she is a co worker. But I won't go any lower than that. I spent a long time processing those photos from raws. I decided to go ahead and finish editing since I figured she'd love to have them ready before thanksgiving, and it would be a nice surprise since I told her it may take two weeks. I end up having 40+ photos ready for the online gallery and go ahead and post them all to it .

Then I text her that night explaining that I'll go down to $150, but no lower,and only this one time. (Did not tell her, but was going to go ahead and let her have all 40+) . I was starting to have a bad feeling about her because of her acting so strange,to change her mind about wanting a disc ,then complaining about the price.

So I said (in my text) next time I will have to charge a fee upfront and offered her a couple other options (package deals less images, for a less amount, if needed).

She doesn't get back to me for two days.
When she does she says she's sorry but had she known I would be so expensive she would have never done the shoot with me in the first place and should have gone with her "professional photographer" instead (the one she was complaining about not wanting to pay ). She said her photographer was cheaper. She said she will "give" me $40. and then I can just give her whatever I think is fair.

I did not charge a fee upfront because I was thinking I was helping her out, and allowing her to buy per image . So whether she wanted zero, or just a few it was Okay by me. Before the shoot, she & I verbally agreed $10. per image and did not discuss a price for a whole disc because that wasn't what she wanted.
I noticed only 1-2 days after I uploaded the proofs on pixieset, she had already saved 7 of them somehow (must have been screenshots by her phone,because its right click disabled) she made a collage of 6, posted it as her facebook cover photo,then used a 7th picture as her profile photo. I didn't think anything of it at first, until she said what she said to me in text.


After thinking about what she texted me, I started getting more and more angry,feeling used and then realized how dare she take photos off my gallery that were supposed to be proofs for choosing which ones she wanted to buy, then tell me She should have never used me in the first place "had she known" I would be so expensive. She AGREED to have the shoot done, and pay $10. per image (however many she wanted to buy) . She could have gotten ONE image and it would have been just $10.00 .
She's the one who changed HER mind and asked how much for a disc. She's got 7 of those pictures,and probably all 49 ,so at this point I don't even want her $ . I don't want her $40.00 because she stole $70 worth of pictures.

My mom told me I should go on her facebook, and in the comments under the pictures she posted , tell her that because they were never paid for,she should never had saved them from the pixieset website, and posted them to facebook. I did not even think to watermark them,because I really didn't think I had to protect myself from this happening. I can't believe a co worker can do this, and then work with me,and have no shame. She won't say a word to me about the shoot,at work,unless I bring it up. I'm not comfortable speaking to her about it at work,so I need to finish my email and send it and be done with it.

I am thinking of bringing up the fact that she agreed to $10.00 per image so her saying that "had she known " comment was unfair of her,because she DID know. She just wanted something else that we never discussed and wasn't happy with my answer. She took 7 of my pictures(probably more) from the proofs page and then "offers" to "give" me $40.00 for "whatever I think is fair" , so I want to bring that up and tell her very firmly that no, she agreed to $10. per picture so if she wants to spend $40. than she can get FOUR photos, per our agreement.
*However* , I don't understand why she would say she only wants to spend that much, if she has already taken at least $70 worth of my photos and already put them on her facebook page. I want to call her out on that too.

What do you think I should do ?
So I don't know if there is a way I can complain to facebook, to have them removed. Had she paid for them, it wouldn't have been a big deal. What makes me mad is she took them, then tells me how much she would paid me which is extremely insulting and rude, and shows she has no respect for me at all and probably never wanted to buy any in the first place. My friend thinks she used me on purpose to get pictures for facebook .
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake... (show quote)


1st Consider this a lesson learned.

2nd Develop a simple contract and insist on it being signed before doing any work. Free or otherwise. to spell out ownership of the image files and to prevent publication anywhere of any images not paid for.

3rd As previously noted give low res watermarked previews. You could have high res images on your iPad etc for preview.

4th Send her a bill for $70 ; the images she used.

My $0.02

Reply
Nov 25, 2014 10:32:47   #
Jim Plogger Loc: East Tennessee
 
carlismycat wrote:
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake)

She knew I did photography (hoggyist/enthusiest,whatever you wanna call it) and had seen my photos before . She said she did not want to pay her regular photographer what it costs for an entire disc of photos and what would I charge her? I said I prefer prints, and don't like the idea of selling digital files on a disc. I told her I don't mind doing the photos and she can buy them per image, for $10. (per high resolution image.)
I thought $15. is a minimum fair amount but wanted to give her a discount.

After the shoot, she is showing the gallery (what I thought, but it could have been saved pictures to her phone) proofs to our other co workers, and raving about them. When she heard me say,that is only 15 , and there should be about 30 total when I'm done she said "I want a cd "

I didn't discuss it with her, because it was in the morning at work and had no time to talk. I was actually surprised because she acted like she couldn't afford a whole disc of images.

After work I saw her in the office that evening, and I said if you really want a disc with all the photos, It will be $200.00 assuming there will be 30 .
She pauses, looks shocked and made a funny sound. Then said ugh, That's way too much. I'll have to talk to my mom, and get back with you. I said well, I can do it for $180. ,and I explained she can make payments if she wants,do it by cc,or paypal if needed. She says nothing.

I get home,discuss it with my husband and we agreed it would be okay for me to lower it to $150. After all she is a co worker. But I won't go any lower than that. I spent a long time processing those photos from raws. I decided to go ahead and finish editing since I figured she'd love to have them ready before thanksgiving, and it would be a nice surprise since I told her it may take two weeks. I end up having 40+ photos ready for the online gallery and go ahead and post them all to it .

Then I text her that night explaining that I'll go down to $150, but no lower,and only this one time. (Did not tell her, but was going to go ahead and let her have all 40+) . I was starting to have a bad feeling about her because of her acting so strange,to change her mind about wanting a disc ,then complaining about the price.

So I said (in my text) next time I will have to charge a fee upfront and offered her a couple other options (package deals less images, for a less amount, if needed).

She doesn't get back to me for two days.
When she does she says she's sorry but had she known I would be so expensive she would have never done the shoot with me in the first place and should have gone with her "professional photographer" instead (the one she was complaining about not wanting to pay ). She said her photographer was cheaper. She said she will "give" me $40. and then I can just give her whatever I think is fair.

I did not charge a fee upfront because I was thinking I was helping her out, and allowing her to buy per image . So whether she wanted zero, or just a few it was Okay by me. Before the shoot, she & I verbally agreed $10. per image and did not discuss a price for a whole disc because that wasn't what she wanted.
I noticed only 1-2 days after I uploaded the proofs on pixieset, she had already saved 7 of them somehow (must have been screenshots by her phone,because its right click disabled) she made a collage of 6, posted it as her facebook cover photo,then used a 7th picture as her profile photo. I didn't think anything of it at first, until she said what she said to me in text.


After thinking about what she texted me, I started getting more and more angry,feeling used and then realized how dare she take photos off my gallery that were supposed to be proofs for choosing which ones she wanted to buy, then tell me She should have never used me in the first place "had she known" I would be so expensive. She AGREED to have the shoot done, and pay $10. per image (however many she wanted to buy) . She could have gotten ONE image and it would have been just $10.00 .
She's the one who changed HER mind and asked how much for a disc. She's got 7 of those pictures,and probably all 49 ,so at this point I don't even want her $ . I don't want her $40.00 because she stole $70 worth of pictures.

My mom told me I should go on her facebook, and in the comments under the pictures she posted , tell her that because they were never paid for,she should never had saved them from the pixieset website, and posted them to facebook. I did not even think to watermark them,because I really didn't think I had to protect myself from this happening. I can't believe a co worker can do this, and then work with me,and have no shame. She won't say a word to me about the shoot,at work,unless I bring it up. I'm not comfortable speaking to her about it at work,so I need to finish my email and send it and be done with it.

I am thinking of bringing up the fact that she agreed to $10.00 per image so her saying that "had she known " comment was unfair of her,because she DID know. She just wanted something else that we never discussed and wasn't happy with my answer. She took 7 of my pictures(probably more) from the proofs page and then "offers" to "give" me $40.00 for "whatever I think is fair" , so I want to bring that up and tell her very firmly that no, she agreed to $10. per picture so if she wants to spend $40. than she can get FOUR photos, per our agreement.
*However* , I don't understand why she would say she only wants to spend that much, if she has already taken at least $70 worth of my photos and already put them on her facebook page. I want to call her out on that too.

What do you think I should do ?
So I don't know if there is a way I can complain to facebook, to have them removed. Had she paid for them, it wouldn't have been a big deal. What makes me mad is she took them, then tells me how much she would paid me which is extremely insulting and rude, and shows she has no respect for me at all and probably never wanted to buy any in the first place. My friend thinks she used me on purpose to get pictures for facebook .
I did a photo shoot for a co worker. (big mistake... (show quote)


I believe that this is a very inexpensive lesson. Think CONTRACT! I would take the photos down and chalk this up to "one of my learning experiences". You have too much to lose at work to let this go any further. Chin up! :) :)

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