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Mirrorless cameras
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Nov 16, 2014 08:41:18   #
Slick Willie Loc: The U. S.
 
ka3ciz11 wrote:
Are mirrorless camera's slowly replacing dslr's? Is there an advantage of one over the other?
Thanks!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up8K_xd_iwU

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Nov 16, 2014 08:44:24   #
ottopj Loc: Annapolis, MD USA
 
rook2c4 wrote:
I'm still waiting for the price to go down on mirrorless cameras.


If you keep waiting for the price to go down, the camera that is the "going thing" will be your cell phone.

Cell phones are the cameras of the future. Google iPhonephotography and look at the future.

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Nov 16, 2014 10:41:20   #
PHW Loc: Madison, WI
 
kymarto has definite opinions about mirrorless (negative)

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Nov 16, 2014 10:46:40   #
prayingmantis
 
Over the past 53 years I have owned Nikon, Canon, Pentax (medium formats of 6x7 and 645) and currently I own and use the Sony A7r and own and occasionally use the A99 and A77. In the 1960's I shot 4x5 view and press cameras.I also am a camera collector with over 40 cameras. I have been shooting with electronic viewfinders since 2008 and have found that the resolution is excellent and the ability to see changes in the camera settings is a huge advance in photography. As far as the size issue (my A7r is a mirrorless, 36mp camera) I really don't care about that as I often use lenses that are a good bit larger than the body. There has been a couple of major compromises made in the design of the A7, A7r and A7S in an attempt to produce the smallest possible mirrorless camera. These compromises discouraged me from purchasing the A7r when it was introduced. The problem is this; I own 2 Sony tlr's (A77 and A99) that have image stabilization in the body and the Sony lenses I already own (Carl Zeiss 50mm and 135mm, Sony 85mm f2.8, Sigma 35mm f1.4, Sony 70-400mm, Sony 100mm macro) do not have image stabilization in them. I continue to use those lenses on the A7r with the required adapter however I do not have image stabilization on the lenses or the body and when I shoot hand-held I find it very, very useful. The other compromise Sony made was the decrease in battery size which was necessitated to reduce the size of the camera as much as they have done. I do get about 700 shots with a single battery so that is good enough for me. I always carry 2 spare batteries.
For me the biggest advantage of my mirrorless camera is the ability to use many brands of lenses. I shoot manually almost 100% of the time so the loss of autofocus and the loss of the ability to control the lens aperture from the camera doesn't bother me. One lens I always wanted but which was not available in a Sony A mount was the Carl Zeiss 100mm makro planar f2. I now own and use that lens. It is the best macro lens on the market of any brand, the only f2 macro lens ever made and it is fully manual. Of course anyone who shoots a lot of macro knows you rarely use autofocus as it often results in the area of focus that is not where you want it.
Lastly I want to explain the issue of WHY IT IS THAT MIRRORLESS CAMERAS AS WELL AS TLR'S ARE NOT AS GOOD FOR SPORTS OR FAST ACTION. This is primarily an issue with the electronic viewfinder. When you shoot rapid bursts of say 6 shots in 0.6 seconds with an optical viewfinder you can easily track the moving object (e.g a flying bird or running wide receiver in football) because the viewfinder only blacks out when the mirror is up. When you shoot rapid bursts with an electronic viewfinder at a rate of about 10 frames per second the view in the viewfinder goes dark for a longer period of time than required for an optical viewfinder. It is a problem with the refresh speed. During those dark intervals it is a bit more difficult to track a rapidly moving object such as a bird in flight.
To summarize, the features of the mirrorless cameras which interest me the most are:
1. The ability to use lenses of other manufacturers
2. The ability to see the effects of camera setting changes
in the viewfinder in real time (both mirrorless and
tlr's). As well when shooting in very dim light which is
challenging for any autofocus system you can easily focus
manually with the electronic viewfinder as the image in
the viewfinder is bright when the aperture-shutter speed
combination is correct. On my cameras you can see the
histogram in the viewfinder!!! Also, as mentioned above,
Sony mirrorless and tlr's have focus peaking which is a
technology which shows graphically what areas of the
image are in focus. I use this feature a lot with focus
stacking however I want to point out that focus peaking
doesn't work at all in dim light situations.

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Nov 16, 2014 10:54:46   #
Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA
 
Tony Bourdain on CNN's "Parts Unknown" has always
pushed the envelope. His next idea is to shoot a whole show
with cell phones. I think the "news" is that different format's
and styles are opening up the visual industry and getting rid of the old rules. We used to think that pro photography and video and film production required super expensive gear and many people to create great visuals. An advance enthusiast needed
lens bigger then a bazooka. A film (video) camera has to have 75k lens and a $100K rig. A leica makes you a good shooter.
Pardon me for being philosophical but great shooters and those who aspire to be one are in a great time.

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Nov 16, 2014 10:55:09   #
Peekayoh Loc: UK
 
ka3ciz11 wrote:
Are mirrorless camera's slowly replacing dslr's? Is there an advantage of one over the other? Thanks!
I think it's only a matter of time before that happens.

Right now, the DSLR's PDAF still has the advantage in AF performance but the difference is being eroded by successive generations of mirrorless cameras like the Sony A6000 for example and once OSPDAF (OnSensorPDAF) and/or Z-shift become mature technologies, the need for the DSLR disappears.

The attraction for Manufacturers, apart from sales growth, is higher profit margins. Gone is the expensive Mirror Box, gone is the expensive PentaPrism/PentaMirror, gone is the expensive AF Module and gone are the Back/Front focus issue of separate PDAF modules as is the expense of QC in aligning the module. Of course that translates into cheaper Cameras for the Consumer as well: who, a couple of years ago would have predicted a Full Frame camera selling for less than $1500?

There will always be those die-hards who refuse to give up their OVF cameras so the DSLR will not disappear overnight. I do however see a shrinking market and escalating prices until the inevitable demise.

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Nov 16, 2014 10:58:38   #
phlash46 Loc: Westchester County, New York
 
Cdouthitt wrote:
Depends on who you talk to. If you're a birder of fast action photographer, then a traditional DSLR will suit you better. It's not to say that you can't shoot those things with a mirrorless camera, but right now a dslr will do a better job.

For me, I don't do either of those, except for an ocassional BIF. therefore mirrorless has suited me well for the last year, and I don't miss my dslr at all, especially the size and weight.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Nov 16, 2014 11:46:38   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
CHOLLY wrote:
The world is changing.

The resolution and image quality of Electronic View Finders is equal to that of optical view finders with the added benefit of display information that no optical view finder can come close to matching.

And with adaptors, those DSLR lenses that are collecting dust in your camera drawer can be used on that mirrorless camera, ESPECIALLY if it's a Sony... the most established, advanced, and flexible of the mirrorless systems.


Question: Can Sony mirrorless cameras use Minolta lenses directly?

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Nov 16, 2014 11:50:35   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Burt Hollen wrote:
One thing I like on the Olympus OMD series is that you can see the depth of field right in the viewfinder as you change F-stops. I converted from 50 years of using DSLR's and pleased that I did.


You mean "from 50 years of using SLR's and DSLR's...".

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Nov 16, 2014 12:04:38   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
CHOLLY wrote:
The world is changing.

The resolution and image quality of Electronic View Finders is equal to that of optical view finders with the added benefit of display information that no optical view finder can come close to matching.

And with adaptors, those DSLR lenses that are collecting dust in your camera drawer can be used on that mirrorless camera, ESPECIALLY if it's a Sony... the most established, advanced, and flexible of the mirrorless systems.


Are you saying that with a mirrorless camera such as the Sony A5000 or A6000 (which has an EVF) that I can use my Nikon lenses on it with an adapter? That would be a huge thing for me, as I need a good long zoom lens. Actually, what I have is a Nikon 70--210mm zoom that would work great with the mirrorless camera. So if that is true, what do lens adapters cost?

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Nov 16, 2014 12:58:37   #
azted Loc: Las Vegas, NV.
 
Far North wrote:
Are you saying that with a mirrorless camera such as the Sony A5000 or A6000 (which has an EVF) that I can use my Nikon lenses on it with an adapter? That would be a huge thing for me, as I need a good long zoom lens. Actually, what I have is a Nikon 70--210mm zoom that would work great with the mirrorless camera. So if that is true, what do lens adapters cost?


You can get a lens adapter from Nikon (F or FE?) to Sony e-mount for as little as $14.00. I have two of them, and they work fine. One has a tripod mount attached to it for use with a larger Nikon telephoto lens.

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Nov 16, 2014 13:28:04   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
ottopj wrote:
If you keep waiting for the price to go down, the camera that is the "going thing" will be your cell phone.

Cell phones are the cameras of the future. Google iPhonephotography and look at the future.

I have found an iPhone to be very useful when all I needed to do was to grab a "camera" and take a picture, and the prodigious computing power they have can do wonderful things after the picture has been taken. However, the current mantra of cell phones is small, so for the foreseeable future, I doubt if cell phones will be useful under circumstances where special lenses (such as telephoto) are called for or when an LCD simply cannot deliver enough information to truly compose a picture (outside brightness, for example).

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Nov 16, 2014 13:28:04   #
prayingmantis
 
To LAMEACIEA and FAR NORTH. YOu can use a Minolta lens on the Sony mirrorless cameras but you will need an adapter such as the Sony LAEA1 which sells for about $180. That adapter allows the use of Sony A mount lenses with communication of the autofocus and aperture between body and lens. However I am not sure whether you will have that communication with the Minolta lens with that adapter.
To FAR NORTH you can use that Nikon on the Sony mirrorless cameras however you will have to use the lens manually, both focus and aperture settings. I use a Metabones adapter to mount my Carl Zeiss 100mm makro-planar lens which has a Nikon mount on it onto my Sony A7r. The Metabones adapter fits tight as it should and has a tripod mount on it. It sells for $150 at BandH. Avoid purchasing a $50 Vello adapter. I purchased one and it doesn't hold the lens securely, the lens can easily fall off the camera when manual focusing is performed.

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Nov 16, 2014 13:41:23   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
Unless numbers have changed, 90+% of all DSLR's sold are APS-C models.
Some of the pricing for mirrorless models exceeds comparable DSLR models.
My personal opinion is other than a savings in weight, which may not be that much in some cases, you are paying more for less, specifically sensor size.
To answer your question specifically, I do not believe they will ever take over traditional DSLR's unless those manufactures abandon DSLR engineering and move to mirrorless which is doubtful. On the down side E-mount lenses are not nearly as plentiful, but on the plus side, adapters make almost any lens usable now.

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Nov 16, 2014 13:45:43   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
I bet you never handled a Mirrorless Camera. Or are you saying that a mirrorless FF sensor is smaller than a FF dslr?

sirlensalot wrote:
My personal opinion is other than a savings in weight, which may not be that much in some cases, you are paying more for less, specifically sensor size.

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