Tryign to choose which camera
Sep 19, 2014 14:12:31 #
amehta
Loc: Boston
mtbear wrote:
I've posted this before but it's worth repeating. Choose the lenses you want first. Study features, range of available lenses and consider your possible future needs. Once invested in lenses, unless you're rich. you're less likely to switch platforms if you find a lens you really want.
The lenses and features available for this category of cameras is fairly uniform, the exceptions being things like articulating screen, touch screen, WiFi, and GPS. There are "specialty" lenses, but it's hard to know which of those are of interest until one starts shooting.
Sep 19, 2014 15:14:11 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
Canon 300D is the same as the original Digital Rebel.
It's a ten year old, 6MP, 12 bit camera that's still quite capable, so long as it is in good working condition, as the seller claims. $75 is a bargain price. It sold originally for about $1500, body only, if memory serves. Uses the exact same sensor & processor as Canon 10D (that was a little earlier and sold for $1999... as the first DSLR to sell for under $2000 US). I shot these years ago with 10D...
I've made 11x14 prints from both the above images. No problem with the 6MP images from 10D (or 300D/Digital Rebel)... so long as you don't do much cropping.
Batteries are dead simple to find and cheap. It uses BP511/511A. There are generic clones of those available for $5-$6 apiece (compare to around $40-50 apiece for OEM Canon LP-E6 and LP-E8 batteries for similar current models).
Like my 10D, the 300D/Digital Rebel is a bit hard on batteries. One reason for this was the way I have to use my cameras.... Those older models were a little slow to wake up from sleep mode, and I shoot a lot of sports where I need to react very quickly. So I had to set the camera with a long delay before going to sleep, which drains the batteries faster, so I always carried several extras. I also used a battery grip on my 10D, which holds two batteries and gives vertical (portrait orientation) controls.
It also uses easy to find Compact Flash memory cards. Slower 1GB cards are plenty large, but 2GB and 4GB should work fine, too. These smaller sizes are getting harder to find, but still available.
The older Canon Rebel series DSLRs had shutters rated to about 50,000 or 75,000 clicks. So you might want to test a used one with a shutter count software. This figure is just the "mean time to failure", though.... many cameras shoot far more images without problem. Some do less, though, too. It's not a guaranteed number of shots the camera can take before the shutter fails (it's replaceable, but probably not worth it.
The 7-point AF array is pretty simple compared to more current models. But it's adequate.
The Digital Rebel/300D, 10D and earlier (D60 and D30) produce a "CRW" RAW file (Canon cameras now produce a CR2 RAW file). CRW are no longer supported by Canon's own softwares. But there's no problem working them with third party RAW converters such as Adobe Photoshop Elements.
The Craigslist seller is wrong about several things. First, you can shoot RAW (CRW) in Av, Tv, P, M and B exposure modes. Three of those (Av, Tv, P) are auto exposure modes. It's only when you get into the pre-programmed "scene modes" (such as "running man"/sports, "mountain"/scenic, etc.) that you are limited to JPEGs only.
All in all, if that Digital Rebel is in good working condition, it's a fine old camera. (Note: it won't shoot RAW + JPEG... both at the same time... the way newer models can. The 10D can't do RAW + JPEG, either.)
It cannot shoot video and doesn't have a Live View mode. The LCD monitor on the back is rather small (under 2" diag., if I recall).
I have a 300D/Digital Rebel that's not working, I bought for a few $ to try to repair, but is beyond help (it shorted out when someone jammed a memory card in and bent the pins in the socket)... SO it's going to be used for a Canon Loyalty purchase instead.
I don't see anywhere in the ad that Craigslist seller is claiming he bought it new 3 years ago.... It's definitely a ten year old model (and the Rebel series has been expanded and refreshed almost yearly, so there have been a lot of models since then).
EDIT: Okay, I read more of the posts and see now that you talked with the seller and that over the phone he claimed to have bought it new three years ago... Yes, that is a little suspicious. I would imagine there were no new 300D/Digital Rebels available beyond 2005/2006 at the latest. So either he's having a memory lapse or exaggerating. But it's also clear to me from reading the ad on CL that he's not very knowledgeable about the camera (as noted above).
The 300D/Digital Rebel was the very first Canon to be able to use EF-S lenses that are especially designed for the smaller APS-C sensor format cameras. All subsequent APS-C models can accommodate all these lenses (however 10D and earlier cannot). This gives you access to some excellent, high quality EF-S lenses, such as the EF-S 10-22mm, EF-S 10-18mm IS, EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS, EF-S 15-85mm IS and EF-S 60/2.8 Macro. In fact, 300D/Digital Rebel and all later APS-C models can use all EF and EF-S lenses Canon makes. (Full frame models such as 6D and 5D series can only use EF lenses.)
300D/Digital Rebel is a little plasticky. The more expensive 10D has a magnesium body shell and uses a true pentaprism, while the 300D uses a penta-mirror to reduce cost and weight. The 10D also uses a BG-ED3 battery grip, one of the best Canon has made, which also fit the D60 and D30. 300D probably has an available battery grip, too... though I'm not familiar with it.
Otherwise, 300D and 10D are essentially the same camera.
The EF-S 18-55mm lens on that 300D/Digital Rebel is probably the original version that was sold with it and that's not all that great, though might be usable for the time being. It's been revised several times, but is easy to update to a newer lens, if you wish. A later 18-55 IS or 18-55 IS STM would be a much better lens that's still rather inexpensive. Personally I used an EF 28-135mm IS a lot and find it's optically excellent and a very nice walk-around lens, fast focusing, close focusing, with helpful image stabilization (even if it's not particularly wide on a crop camera... I paired it up with a Tokina 12-24/4 that will work on a 10D, as will all third party "crop only" lenses). 28-135 can be picked up used for $200-250. Tokina 12-24 can be found for around $350-400). Above images were made with a Canon EF 50/1.4 lens.
If you decide to take a closer look at the 300D/Digital Rebel, download and study the manual so you know how it works and can test it before buying. Or, even better yet, if you have a friend who uses Canon DSLRs and is familiar with them, invite him or her along and have them look at the camera with you.
$75 isn't a lot to risk on a DSLR, at any rate.
If you have more to spend and want a new camera instead of a used one... I'd suggest looking at Canon T3i and T5i. The latter has an articulated LCD screen and a few other improvement, but both are excellent, 18MP models capable of very high quality images.
I'm sure some of the Nikon cameras mentioned would serve just as well. To decide between them, I'd suggest you go to a store and handle some Nikon and Canon models... maybe some Pentax, Sony, Oly etc., too... to see what feels most comfortable to you. They all are capable and can meet most people's needs. So it's really more a matter of which feels most comfortable and easy to use.
It's a ten year old, 6MP, 12 bit camera that's still quite capable, so long as it is in good working condition, as the seller claims. $75 is a bargain price. It sold originally for about $1500, body only, if memory serves. Uses the exact same sensor & processor as Canon 10D (that was a little earlier and sold for $1999... as the first DSLR to sell for under $2000 US). I shot these years ago with 10D...
I've made 11x14 prints from both the above images. No problem with the 6MP images from 10D (or 300D/Digital Rebel)... so long as you don't do much cropping.
Batteries are dead simple to find and cheap. It uses BP511/511A. There are generic clones of those available for $5-$6 apiece (compare to around $40-50 apiece for OEM Canon LP-E6 and LP-E8 batteries for similar current models).
Like my 10D, the 300D/Digital Rebel is a bit hard on batteries. One reason for this was the way I have to use my cameras.... Those older models were a little slow to wake up from sleep mode, and I shoot a lot of sports where I need to react very quickly. So I had to set the camera with a long delay before going to sleep, which drains the batteries faster, so I always carried several extras. I also used a battery grip on my 10D, which holds two batteries and gives vertical (portrait orientation) controls.
It also uses easy to find Compact Flash memory cards. Slower 1GB cards are plenty large, but 2GB and 4GB should work fine, too. These smaller sizes are getting harder to find, but still available.
The older Canon Rebel series DSLRs had shutters rated to about 50,000 or 75,000 clicks. So you might want to test a used one with a shutter count software. This figure is just the "mean time to failure", though.... many cameras shoot far more images without problem. Some do less, though, too. It's not a guaranteed number of shots the camera can take before the shutter fails (it's replaceable, but probably not worth it.
The 7-point AF array is pretty simple compared to more current models. But it's adequate.
The Digital Rebel/300D, 10D and earlier (D60 and D30) produce a "CRW" RAW file (Canon cameras now produce a CR2 RAW file). CRW are no longer supported by Canon's own softwares. But there's no problem working them with third party RAW converters such as Adobe Photoshop Elements.
The Craigslist seller is wrong about several things. First, you can shoot RAW (CRW) in Av, Tv, P, M and B exposure modes. Three of those (Av, Tv, P) are auto exposure modes. It's only when you get into the pre-programmed "scene modes" (such as "running man"/sports, "mountain"/scenic, etc.) that you are limited to JPEGs only.
All in all, if that Digital Rebel is in good working condition, it's a fine old camera. (Note: it won't shoot RAW + JPEG... both at the same time... the way newer models can. The 10D can't do RAW + JPEG, either.)
It cannot shoot video and doesn't have a Live View mode. The LCD monitor on the back is rather small (under 2" diag., if I recall).
I have a 300D/Digital Rebel that's not working, I bought for a few $ to try to repair, but is beyond help (it shorted out when someone jammed a memory card in and bent the pins in the socket)... SO it's going to be used for a Canon Loyalty purchase instead.
I don't see anywhere in the ad that Craigslist seller is claiming he bought it new 3 years ago.... It's definitely a ten year old model (and the Rebel series has been expanded and refreshed almost yearly, so there have been a lot of models since then).
EDIT: Okay, I read more of the posts and see now that you talked with the seller and that over the phone he claimed to have bought it new three years ago... Yes, that is a little suspicious. I would imagine there were no new 300D/Digital Rebels available beyond 2005/2006 at the latest. So either he's having a memory lapse or exaggerating. But it's also clear to me from reading the ad on CL that he's not very knowledgeable about the camera (as noted above).
The 300D/Digital Rebel was the very first Canon to be able to use EF-S lenses that are especially designed for the smaller APS-C sensor format cameras. All subsequent APS-C models can accommodate all these lenses (however 10D and earlier cannot). This gives you access to some excellent, high quality EF-S lenses, such as the EF-S 10-22mm, EF-S 10-18mm IS, EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS, EF-S 15-85mm IS and EF-S 60/2.8 Macro. In fact, 300D/Digital Rebel and all later APS-C models can use all EF and EF-S lenses Canon makes. (Full frame models such as 6D and 5D series can only use EF lenses.)
300D/Digital Rebel is a little plasticky. The more expensive 10D has a magnesium body shell and uses a true pentaprism, while the 300D uses a penta-mirror to reduce cost and weight. The 10D also uses a BG-ED3 battery grip, one of the best Canon has made, which also fit the D60 and D30. 300D probably has an available battery grip, too... though I'm not familiar with it.
Otherwise, 300D and 10D are essentially the same camera.
The EF-S 18-55mm lens on that 300D/Digital Rebel is probably the original version that was sold with it and that's not all that great, though might be usable for the time being. It's been revised several times, but is easy to update to a newer lens, if you wish. A later 18-55 IS or 18-55 IS STM would be a much better lens that's still rather inexpensive. Personally I used an EF 28-135mm IS a lot and find it's optically excellent and a very nice walk-around lens, fast focusing, close focusing, with helpful image stabilization (even if it's not particularly wide on a crop camera... I paired it up with a Tokina 12-24/4 that will work on a 10D, as will all third party "crop only" lenses). 28-135 can be picked up used for $200-250. Tokina 12-24 can be found for around $350-400). Above images were made with a Canon EF 50/1.4 lens.
If you decide to take a closer look at the 300D/Digital Rebel, download and study the manual so you know how it works and can test it before buying. Or, even better yet, if you have a friend who uses Canon DSLRs and is familiar with them, invite him or her along and have them look at the camera with you.
$75 isn't a lot to risk on a DSLR, at any rate.
If you have more to spend and want a new camera instead of a used one... I'd suggest looking at Canon T3i and T5i. The latter has an articulated LCD screen and a few other improvement, but both are excellent, 18MP models capable of very high quality images.
I'm sure some of the Nikon cameras mentioned would serve just as well. To decide between them, I'd suggest you go to a store and handle some Nikon and Canon models... maybe some Pentax, Sony, Oly etc., too... to see what feels most comfortable to you. They all are capable and can meet most people's needs. So it's really more a matter of which feels most comfortable and easy to use.
Sep 19, 2014 16:31:37 #
amfoto1: That is a couple of nice photos that you took. Thanks for all of the information in your post.
I want to thank everyone for their response. The Canon T5i or the Nikon D5300 or other camera (new or used) will probably be bought next year with my tax return.
I did talk with the seller of the 300D today. He is an older gentleman. It seems that time had gotten away from him. He did not buy the camera 3 years ago. He actually bought it after Katrina hit in 2005. He did buy it new then.
He is willing to let me try it for a couple of months after I buy it. If I am not happy with the camera, he is willing to take the camera back and refund my money.
I have not made up my mind yet if I want the camera. I am not making a fast decision. I am taking some more time to see what is in my best interest.
The reason that I am buying a cheaper used camera is to use it as a learning tool before I buy an up to date modern camera. That way I can learn about focus, ISO, and the other basic things that I need to know.
Thanks again. Ken
I want to thank everyone for their response. The Canon T5i or the Nikon D5300 or other camera (new or used) will probably be bought next year with my tax return.
I did talk with the seller of the 300D today. He is an older gentleman. It seems that time had gotten away from him. He did not buy the camera 3 years ago. He actually bought it after Katrina hit in 2005. He did buy it new then.
He is willing to let me try it for a couple of months after I buy it. If I am not happy with the camera, he is willing to take the camera back and refund my money.
I have not made up my mind yet if I want the camera. I am not making a fast decision. I am taking some more time to see what is in my best interest.
The reason that I am buying a cheaper used camera is to use it as a learning tool before I buy an up to date modern camera. That way I can learn about focus, ISO, and the other basic things that I need to know.
Thanks again. Ken
Sep 19, 2014 18:04:11 #
When I was researching digital cameras a wise old photographer told me two things:
1) Determine what your need is and then go to a reputable camera store and ask a lot of questions. If they are indeed reputable they will put you into a camera that fits your needs.
2) and his remark I'll never forget: "All current digital cameras take wonderful photographs. Most troubles with photography are not the fault of a poor camera, but with the poor photographer standin' behind it."
Good luck and happy shooting!
1) Determine what your need is and then go to a reputable camera store and ask a lot of questions. If they are indeed reputable they will put you into a camera that fits your needs.
2) and his remark I'll never forget: "All current digital cameras take wonderful photographs. Most troubles with photography are not the fault of a poor camera, but with the poor photographer standin' behind it."
Good luck and happy shooting!
Sep 19, 2014 18:13:17 #
Sep 19, 2014 18:42:00 #
Mr. Ken wrote:
...I am looking at the Canon T5i or the Nikon D5300. I do not know if I will be taking much video at all...
My son has a Canon T3i with some fair lenses. It's excellent in all regards and takes beautiful photos.
I have a Nikon D5100 which I love. The photo quality is equal to my Nikon D7000, it's lightweight and easy to use, and has been extremely robust (same with my son's Canon).
You can't go wrong with either of these cameras. Handle both, read the reviews and comparisons and go for it. A place to start is http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-Rebel-T5i-vs-Nikon-D5300 . The Canon takes excellent photos and is a pleasure to use. It's much better in actual use than the scores in that comparison. Neither of these camera will hold you back for years.
One thing to consider is that once you're into either brand, it's hard to change because of the lenses and accessories you'll accumulate.
Factory reconditioned cameras are a great deal. My D7000 is reconditioned and it's done yeomen's service for years. Try either Adorama or B&H. They stand behind what they sell, and both offer a full 1 yr. warranty on factory reconditioned Canon and Nikon camera bodies.
Happy shooting!
Sep 19, 2014 18:43:48 #
awhit wrote:
When I was researching digital cameras a wise old ... (show quote)
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Sep 20, 2014 02:25:01 #
Mr. Ken wrote:
I need some help everyone. I am a novice to taking... (show quote)
Do not buy an older anything. The difference between today's Nikon and one 3-4 years old (Or Canon) is night and day.
Seriously consider a Nikon D3300. They are about $500 or so at Costco, in a kit with lenses. Read Ken Rockwell's review http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3300.htm
Rockwell has never steered me wrong. He recommends Canon when that's the better choice (In fact I bought a Nikon P&S instead of his recommendation of a Canon G15. Big mistake, I went back and bought the Canon.)
They come in red and gray as well as black, but red bugs my sensibilities. Gray may be okay LOL.
Sep 20, 2014 07:00:45 #
Hi Ken. Late to the party.:) But I would say go ahead on the Canon if he is saying you can return it. that is a darn good price to play and get your feet wet. Do you know what lens it has? I didn't read all the post. Even if you decide to go with Nikon, it could be your backup camera, or even your out walking in the rain camera.:):) I have been with Nikon for a long time. I worked in a store that just sold Nikons and I got a good deal buying stuff.:):) I have enjoyed everyone of the 35 cameras I have worn out.:):) The digital age is a little harder till you get to know the camera. They all take great pictures tho. It just depends on what you want to shoot and how far you want to go with it. Right now it is a relaxing hobby for me. I use to do weddings and did them for 20 years. But where I lived, the towns around me could not support a family. And being on this site is like having the biggest family I have ever wanted. Just make it fun and have a good time!!
Erv
Erv
Sep 20, 2014 07:22:13 #
Mr. Ken wrote:
I need some help everyone. I am a novice to taking... (show quote)
Either should be fine. My daughter has a 5300 and loves it. I don't know much about Canon but I'm sure their cameras are excellent.
Sep 20, 2014 11:15:15 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
Reinaldokool wrote:
Do not buy an older anything. The difference between today's Nikon and one 3-4 years old (Or Canon) is night and day....
Sorry... but my BS meter just went off very loudly.
There have been some significant advances in DSLRs, but the older ones are still quite capable of making great shots. Think about it... Somehow, many professional shots were made with those old cameras.
Sure, there will be some limitations. With an older model you will not be able to make as large prints (due to lower resolution) and you will be limited in the high ISO you can set (For comparison, I kept to ISO 800 and lower with my 10D, though it allowed for ISO 1600... now with Canon 7D I use 1600 freely, 3200 sometimes and even ISO 6400 at times... and it allows up to 12800, newer models go to 25600 and even higher).
With older models like the Digital Rebel/300D you won't have a self-cleaning sensor and won't be able to shoot video or do Live View shooting (i.e. using the rear monitor screen instead of the viewfinder, to compose your shot). You might only have 3 frames per second, compared to 6, 8 or even 10 or more fps possible with some newer models. The 300D/DR has 1/4000 top shutter speed, 1/200 flash synch... some newer or higher models have 1/8000 or faster, and 1/250 or even 1/300 flash synch.
But if you are just seeking to shoot still photos and have interchangeable lens capabilities, especially since you are coming from an older low resolution point-n-shoot camera, you will find plenty to learn and plenty of improvements, using even a 10 year old DSLR.
In fact, when it comes to the basics such as exposure control and the simpler forms of autofocus, there is no difference. (I'd suggest buying a copy of Bryan Peterson's "Understanding Exposure", which applies to virtually all cameras and may be the best $18 you ever spend on your photography).
What will be lacking is some of the conveniences (self-cleaning sensor) and some of the arguably unnecessary gee gaws (GPS, WiFi, in-camera HDR, in-camera B&W conversion, built-in electronic level, etc., etc., etc.)
Setting aside improved sensors, higher resolution and faster processors (mostly allowing for larger prints and/or more cropping, but not necessarily "better" photos), an older camera that is in good working order can be perfectly capable.
Especially a Canon, who have used CMOS sensors of their own manufacture since day one, ramping up their own sensor production facilities in the late 1990s. Until around 2006-2008, most (maybe all) other manufacturers used CCD sensors, often bought from either Sony or Kodak, that were not nearly as "noise free" as CMOS... which gave older Canon cameras roughly a one or two stop higher usable ISO compared to their contemporary competition. Beginning in the mid to late 2000s, they all started making the switch and as of today all manufacturers have followed Canon's lead and converted to CMOS sensors in their DSLRs, although outsourcing is still common.
$75 is a really cheap entry into DSLRs. I wouldn't hesitate so long as the camera works... and I'd do a test with it at the shutter count website to find out how much actual "mileage" it has on it... If working it will still be quite capable.
If you shoot RAW with the camera (which has some advantages), you'll either need an older version of Canon's free RAW processing software, or will need to use one of the freewares, or need to spend a little on a software such as Adobe Elements (I'd do the latter, since it will quite likely also be usable with the newer camera you're saving up to buy in the future.... and Adobe s'wares are pretty much the "state of the art".)
Sep 26, 2014 16:25:07 #
The seller of the 300D that I was looking at called me today and said that he had someone else that was interested in it. I told him to go ahead and sell it to the other person. I had kind of thought against anyway. So now I will just keep on looking.
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