dynaquest1 Loc: Austin, Texas

Gotta let this go....not important enough to get so riled up about.

orvisk

With the invention of the camera came an optical device called a lense. There is no lense that perfectly records what exists in the external world--it is an artificial, manufactured instrument for measuring light; Leonardo Da Vinci came close as well as Vermeer and his classical followers. Would you in your criticism include Ansel Adams as a "post processor" or as an accurate interpreter of the visual world as it exists?

coyotecall Loc: New Mexico

Bingo!

charleo53 Loc: Ocala,fl

Very well put, hold yourself to a higher standard,you will feel better about what you do. Been there done that and learned what counts.

taglo1 Loc: Norfolk VA via NYC

Most people cannot afford two thousand dollar cameras and hundreds of dollars worth of lenses and tripods. So post processing levels the playing field. Sharpening a picture or increasing its brightness is an option for the photographer. Even those who can afford a Canon EOS use Photoshop. Film photography is gone. Digital processing is here. Get over it.

dynaquest1 Loc: Austin, Texas

:thumbup: :thumbup: :-D

BobbyT Loc: Southern California

I should not have introduced the ref. to photojournalism. I misspoke but you are correct that creativity should not be limited. But also I think you are misinterpreting my intent. So I will pose another question. When is a photograph not a photograph?

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

I think a photograph is an image made by light hitting a light sensitive material which is fixed and made visible by chemical or electronic means. And I think if it starts out as a photograph, it remains a photograph.

BobbyT Loc: Southern California

I think that this a naive and very shallow interpretation.

Nikonos II

Have enough trouble keeping my own behavior constructive without worrying about what other people dol

dynaquest1 Loc: Austin, Texas

After nine or ten pages, I think this thread is a dead horse and we need to stop beating it. Time to move on.

stan0301 Loc: Colorado

They can fish--you don't have to bite--I think one and all should do the best they can--and if their idea of best doesn't match yours it is still ok for them to offer--not charge?--well I suppose each and every knows what their time is worth--I can't think of a good reason not to--you could always offer work of very high quality and charge accordingly--not necessarily itemizing.
Stan

twindad Loc: SW Michigan, frolicking in the snow.

Thank you, Richie. Well said. Picasso was a complicated man; frankly, not very likeable, but a true genius, nevertheless.

Waterfall9

Your quote should end the argument while not settling the feelings. I look at my senior picture from 1957 and it is flawless. I wasn't. I checked with a digital color lab and the fee for retouching was roughly $7.00 per minute. $70.00 + to move a head from one group to another. Computer programs are expensive and Learning curves are long. If you want pure images use National Geographic. I am delighted to have the potential to cheat by using photography and digital tools like artists have fudged images with oils, pastels and watercolor for centuries. They often started in pin hole tents and traced the inverted image using what they wanted and changing why they did not like.

I will always appreciate the purest who produces exceptional fine art and I am stunned by many photographers skills. I am also aware that as the camera came into its own the sketch artist faded back, but there still are a few. The joy and creativity that the digital age has brought to the masses is challenging the professional photographer just like the camera challenged the sketch artist. Photographers are advised to make a separate charge for time and various digital services which represents real time, programs and equipment. Unfortunately you do not have to pass a test to charge professional prices and many charge so little that it is almost impossible for most photographers to claim to be professional and actually be making a living. Many of the skills it took to understand and produce good photography a few years ago have been handed to the masses in a much easier pathway toward understanding and success. Now you have instant evidence of your success and or failure and that excites many. I know a few folks who for various levels of understanding with film cameras photographed a wedding for a friend and never got a single picture back.

We are in an age of visual overload and good photographers are everywhere. Pick your illusion and smile while having a good time with it. If you want to make a sale, make your illusion rise above the masses some way. A purest can do that.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

No, it is a very inclusive definition. When you start saying that some amount of manipulation of a photograph makes it not a photograph, who is to decide what that point is? Everyone is going to have a different idea of where the line is drawn, or whether it should be drawn at all. People have been manipulating and altering photographs ever since photography was invented. There's room for a wide variety of photographic techniques. You don't have to like them all, but you shouldn't deny the validity of ones you don't like.