Amanda Knox
Feb 2, 2014 10:05:15 #
berchman
Loc: South Central PA
Knox trial: Both sides say the truth is in the evidence
By Mallory Simon, CNN
updated 8:37 PM EST, Fri January 31, 2014
(CNN) -- Within weeks of British student Meredith Kercher's death in the vibrant college town of Perugia, Italy, in 2007, prosecutors and police declared the case closed.
They'd seized two knives in their search for the murder weapon. They took DNA from the room where Kercher was killed. And at least one suspect had confessed to being at the murder scene. Or so they said.
Kercher had been stabbed in a sexual misadventure, officials said. And they knew the killers.
American Amanda Knox, Kercher's roommate; Italian Raffaele Sollecito, Knox's former boyfriend; and Ivory Coast native Rudy Guede, a drifter known in the area, had their pictures splattered across the world's media.
Knox's photo was even hung in the police plaza alongside Italy's most infamous mobsters and criminals.
The prosecution case seemed a sensational slam-dunk, almost too good to be true.
Knox's supporters say that's because it is.
"In the beginning, all of this supposed evidence was being leaked, showing what sounded like a pretty convincing case," Anne Bremner, a lawyer and former prosecutor working with the group Friends of Amanda, told CNN.
And the two sides still couldn't be further apart on how they view the very evidence that has over the course of nearly seven years both been used to find her guilty and to overturn that ruling.
Independent experts testified during the in 2011 appeal that they believed some of the evidence had been contaminated.
The testimony fueled the fire that started during the first trial about the effectiveness of Italy's justice system given widespread doubts over the handling of the investigation and key pieces of evidence.
But Italian prosecutors, police and those who collected the evidence maintain those arguments are nothing more than last-ditch efforts by a pair guilty of murdering Kercher in cold blood.
And the second conviction shows the Italian court, this time, believes the prosecution. But questions about the specific pieces evidence that led to two convictions and one acquittal still continue.
The murder weapon: The knife
The crime scene was gruesome. The 21-year old British student was found under a duvet on the floor by her bed, covered in blood. A bloody handprint was streaked on the wall above her.
A source close to the prosecution says Kercher was held down while she was strangled and stabbed. The source says Sollecito's 6 ½-inch kitchen knife was used to slit her throat and then taken back to his apartment.
Knox's DNA is on the handle and that of Kercher is on the blade, said a source close to the prosecution who did not wish to be identified discussing an ongoing case.
Kercher had never been to Sollecito's apartment and wouldn't have come in contact with the knife, he said, yet there was her DNA. Those "unmistakable facts" show the knife played a role in the murder, the source said.
What's next for Amanda Knox?
Bremner and experts testifying for the defense say there is no way that specific knife could be the murder weapon.
Dr. Carlo Torre, a leading forensics expert in Italy, testified that the knife taken from Sollecito's apartment wouldn't have made the wounds on Kercher's body.
"It doesn't match the size or shape [of the wounds,]" Bremner told CNN. "And Sollecito's knife also doesn't match a bloody outline of a knife left on the bedding."
Bremner, who offered her legal advice pro bono to the Knox family, questioned the validity of the DNA evidence, saying the knife had been "improperly transported in a shoe box."
Furthermore, Bremner said the jury heard from defense expert Sarah Gino, a geneticist and private coroner in Italy, who said that the DNA sample was too small to be definitive. Bremner said the presence of Knox's DNA on the knife handle was no surprise, as the couple had dinner at his house occasionally.
Prosecutors have maintained just because the knife doesn't match everything doesn't mean it wasn't used. The source close to the prosecution said it was possible, based on the wounds, that several different items made them.
Damning DNA or 'Fellini Forensics'
On the night Kercher was killed, Knox and her boyfriend say they were at his house watching a movie and smoking hashish.
Their recollection of events, they admitted, was hazy from the drugs, but both swore they went back to the house the next morning. Knox says she was unable to gain entry - and called police.
For their case, prosecutors had to prove that Knox and Sollecito - who had recently started dating - were lying and place them at the home when Kercher was killed.
Some reports spoke of a scurry of people - more than one - on the night of the murder around the house. It was a positive lead for prosecutor Mignini - but came to nothing in court.
But the prosecution had more evidence in the form of a bra clasp, one that fell to the floor after the murderer cut Kercher's bra in half before she was killed.
And on it was Sollecito's DNA.
Bremner says that evidence on the clasp is fundamentally flawed, like much from the crime scene collection, calling the work "Fellini forensics."
"In the [crime scene] video, you can see it went from being white in color to nearly black because it got so dirty being moved around," Bremner said of the clasp, noting that tainted the only evidence that placed Sollecito at the scene.
Bremner described other errors she saw on the crime scene video.
"They were putting their fingers in Kercher's wound, they were shaking out evidence, picking up hairs and dropping them," she said. "Some people didn't wear gloves or had their hair draping on the floor, they crashed into a window at one point and threw aside evidence. It was just wrong on all levels."
The prosecution source maintains the crime scene was handled properly, and the evidence shows what it shows.
A big win for Italy or the 'greatest travesty' ever?
Knox's introduction to the world came in a whirlwind of tabloid headlines.
The prosecution touted hard evidence early that they said unquestionably showed they had their killers.
There was a footprint in Knox and Kercher's bathroom that was attributed to Sollecito - though later analysts admitted it belonged to Guede, who was convicted of Kercher's murder in 2008.
The prosecution also presented what they called a confession by Knox, but Knox later said any apparent admission she was at the scene was made when investigators told her to imagine what she might have seen if she had been there.
The argument became moot when a higher court ruled the alleged confession could not be used because the statement was made without an attorney or translator present.
The tabloid headlines continue as Knox's third ruling was handed down and she was convicted for a second time.
Media around the world focused early on Knox's sexual history, what clothes she wears to court and whether a bump on her lip means the girl they dubbed "Foxy Knoxy" has herpes.
From then on it has all been distraction from the lack of evidence, Bremner said.
"It's the greatest travesty of a prosecution ever," Bremner said. "It's so ludicrous. You've got to have a theory, or a motive, but the theory has to fit the facts somehow. And in this case, there's no solid evidence, no motive and no match whatsoever."
Knox's supporters maintain that the prosecution did get one thing right - putting Guede behind bars. He chose a fast-track trial, separate from Sollecito and Knox, and was convicted of murder and attempted sexual assault and sentenced to 30 years. They believe he was Kercher's sole killer. He appealed the verdict, which was upheld, but his sentence was reduced to 16 years.
Supporters of Knox and Sollecito say they are only being prosecuted because the pair was flaunted so publicly as the killers for so long that it would look bad for officials to admit they got it wrong.
The prosecution source rejects that, and portrays Knox, Sollecito and Guede as three people who together ended the life of the young British woman. And they say the way Knox originally pointed the finger at another man - who was cleared with an alibi - shows she had something to hide.
Both sides agree the truth is in the evidence; the question is which truth reveals what really happened the night Kercher died. And the truth may be, we'll never know.
By Mallory Simon, CNN
updated 8:37 PM EST, Fri January 31, 2014
(CNN) -- Within weeks of British student Meredith Kercher's death in the vibrant college town of Perugia, Italy, in 2007, prosecutors and police declared the case closed.
They'd seized two knives in their search for the murder weapon. They took DNA from the room where Kercher was killed. And at least one suspect had confessed to being at the murder scene. Or so they said.
Kercher had been stabbed in a sexual misadventure, officials said. And they knew the killers.
American Amanda Knox, Kercher's roommate; Italian Raffaele Sollecito, Knox's former boyfriend; and Ivory Coast native Rudy Guede, a drifter known in the area, had their pictures splattered across the world's media.
Knox's photo was even hung in the police plaza alongside Italy's most infamous mobsters and criminals.
The prosecution case seemed a sensational slam-dunk, almost too good to be true.
Knox's supporters say that's because it is.
"In the beginning, all of this supposed evidence was being leaked, showing what sounded like a pretty convincing case," Anne Bremner, a lawyer and former prosecutor working with the group Friends of Amanda, told CNN.
And the two sides still couldn't be further apart on how they view the very evidence that has over the course of nearly seven years both been used to find her guilty and to overturn that ruling.
Independent experts testified during the in 2011 appeal that they believed some of the evidence had been contaminated.
The testimony fueled the fire that started during the first trial about the effectiveness of Italy's justice system given widespread doubts over the handling of the investigation and key pieces of evidence.
But Italian prosecutors, police and those who collected the evidence maintain those arguments are nothing more than last-ditch efforts by a pair guilty of murdering Kercher in cold blood.
And the second conviction shows the Italian court, this time, believes the prosecution. But questions about the specific pieces evidence that led to two convictions and one acquittal still continue.
The murder weapon: The knife
The crime scene was gruesome. The 21-year old British student was found under a duvet on the floor by her bed, covered in blood. A bloody handprint was streaked on the wall above her.
A source close to the prosecution says Kercher was held down while she was strangled and stabbed. The source says Sollecito's 6 ½-inch kitchen knife was used to slit her throat and then taken back to his apartment.
Knox's DNA is on the handle and that of Kercher is on the blade, said a source close to the prosecution who did not wish to be identified discussing an ongoing case.
Kercher had never been to Sollecito's apartment and wouldn't have come in contact with the knife, he said, yet there was her DNA. Those "unmistakable facts" show the knife played a role in the murder, the source said.
What's next for Amanda Knox?
Bremner and experts testifying for the defense say there is no way that specific knife could be the murder weapon.
Dr. Carlo Torre, a leading forensics expert in Italy, testified that the knife taken from Sollecito's apartment wouldn't have made the wounds on Kercher's body.
"It doesn't match the size or shape [of the wounds,]" Bremner told CNN. "And Sollecito's knife also doesn't match a bloody outline of a knife left on the bedding."
Bremner, who offered her legal advice pro bono to the Knox family, questioned the validity of the DNA evidence, saying the knife had been "improperly transported in a shoe box."
Furthermore, Bremner said the jury heard from defense expert Sarah Gino, a geneticist and private coroner in Italy, who said that the DNA sample was too small to be definitive. Bremner said the presence of Knox's DNA on the knife handle was no surprise, as the couple had dinner at his house occasionally.
Prosecutors have maintained just because the knife doesn't match everything doesn't mean it wasn't used. The source close to the prosecution said it was possible, based on the wounds, that several different items made them.
Damning DNA or 'Fellini Forensics'
On the night Kercher was killed, Knox and her boyfriend say they were at his house watching a movie and smoking hashish.
Their recollection of events, they admitted, was hazy from the drugs, but both swore they went back to the house the next morning. Knox says she was unable to gain entry - and called police.
For their case, prosecutors had to prove that Knox and Sollecito - who had recently started dating - were lying and place them at the home when Kercher was killed.
Some reports spoke of a scurry of people - more than one - on the night of the murder around the house. It was a positive lead for prosecutor Mignini - but came to nothing in court.
But the prosecution had more evidence in the form of a bra clasp, one that fell to the floor after the murderer cut Kercher's bra in half before she was killed.
And on it was Sollecito's DNA.
Bremner says that evidence on the clasp is fundamentally flawed, like much from the crime scene collection, calling the work "Fellini forensics."
"In the [crime scene] video, you can see it went from being white in color to nearly black because it got so dirty being moved around," Bremner said of the clasp, noting that tainted the only evidence that placed Sollecito at the scene.
Bremner described other errors she saw on the crime scene video.
"They were putting their fingers in Kercher's wound, they were shaking out evidence, picking up hairs and dropping them," she said. "Some people didn't wear gloves or had their hair draping on the floor, they crashed into a window at one point and threw aside evidence. It was just wrong on all levels."
The prosecution source maintains the crime scene was handled properly, and the evidence shows what it shows.
A big win for Italy or the 'greatest travesty' ever?
Knox's introduction to the world came in a whirlwind of tabloid headlines.
The prosecution touted hard evidence early that they said unquestionably showed they had their killers.
There was a footprint in Knox and Kercher's bathroom that was attributed to Sollecito - though later analysts admitted it belonged to Guede, who was convicted of Kercher's murder in 2008.
The prosecution also presented what they called a confession by Knox, but Knox later said any apparent admission she was at the scene was made when investigators told her to imagine what she might have seen if she had been there.
The argument became moot when a higher court ruled the alleged confession could not be used because the statement was made without an attorney or translator present.
The tabloid headlines continue as Knox's third ruling was handed down and she was convicted for a second time.
Media around the world focused early on Knox's sexual history, what clothes she wears to court and whether a bump on her lip means the girl they dubbed "Foxy Knoxy" has herpes.
From then on it has all been distraction from the lack of evidence, Bremner said.
"It's the greatest travesty of a prosecution ever," Bremner said. "It's so ludicrous. You've got to have a theory, or a motive, but the theory has to fit the facts somehow. And in this case, there's no solid evidence, no motive and no match whatsoever."
Knox's supporters maintain that the prosecution did get one thing right - putting Guede behind bars. He chose a fast-track trial, separate from Sollecito and Knox, and was convicted of murder and attempted sexual assault and sentenced to 30 years. They believe he was Kercher's sole killer. He appealed the verdict, which was upheld, but his sentence was reduced to 16 years.
Supporters of Knox and Sollecito say they are only being prosecuted because the pair was flaunted so publicly as the killers for so long that it would look bad for officials to admit they got it wrong.
The prosecution source rejects that, and portrays Knox, Sollecito and Guede as three people who together ended the life of the young British woman. And they say the way Knox originally pointed the finger at another man - who was cleared with an alibi - shows she had something to hide.
Both sides agree the truth is in the evidence; the question is which truth reveals what really happened the night Kercher died. And the truth may be, we'll never know.
Feb 2, 2014 10:17:14 #
rayford2
Loc: New Bethlehem, PA
Calsnap wrote:
Speaking of justice systems, the Italian version i... (show quote)
Not so fast. It's been reported on Google news that Amanda Knox may spend the time it takes to decide her extradition in a Washington prison.
Italian legal convenience is wasting our time and money pursuing this thing.
They acquitted her and let her go free. Now they want to inconvenience us by reneging on their last decision.
If the U.S. extradites her back to Italy this will set a bad precedent in international law. How many other countries are going to duplicate this pattern?
The Italian justice system should swallow their pride and go back to bed.
This is about a justice system, whether or not she is truly guilty.
Feb 2, 2014 19:17:00 #
She was interviewed on 20/20 or one of those shows like it this weekend. It came up that there was a man's DNA, who they have identified, in the roommates room, inside her body, in a bloody handprint on her wall, and his DNA in her purse, which was missing cash and her wallet! It seems to me that this guy might be the killer!!
Feb 2, 2014 21:38:14 #
If you are found not guilty that is it, your not guilty in our court system. It called double jeopardy
Feb 3, 2014 00:16:09 #
Who really cares at this point? Unless you're personally involved as a friend or family member. To quote the next President of the United States "What difference does it make at this point". I only wish she had been at the embassy. :thumbup:
Feb 3, 2014 00:17:43 #
Semprasectum wrote:
johneccles:
HOW do you know she was in the house when the murder occurred? There is NO evidence she was. Any physical evidence to support that she was, was discredited to the point that it only existed in the minds of the prosecutor or was outright fraud.
To post as you did boarders on libel. . . you need to be very careful. . .you should be ashamed that you would comment on something you clearly have little to no grasp on the facts. . :thumbdown:
HOW do you know she was in the house when the murder occurred? There is NO evidence she was. Any physical evidence to support that she was, was discredited to the point that it only existed in the minds of the prosecutor or was outright fraud.
To post as you did boarders on libel. . . you need to be very careful. . .you should be ashamed that you would comment on something you clearly have little to no grasp on the facts. . :thumbdown:
Yawn and double yawn. :roll:
Feb 3, 2014 08:18:51 #
rayford2
Loc: New Bethlehem, PA
pounder35 wrote:
Who really cares at this point? Unless you're personally involved as a friend or family member. To quote the next President of the United States "What difference does it make at this point". I only wish she had been at the embassy. :thumbup:
The people who don't care about a subject usually don't reply to it or bother reading it.
Feb 3, 2014 09:15:09 #
SpeedyWilson wrote:
This was the lead story on the TODAY show this morning. Really? A new trial about an old murder in Italy is top news? Is there no more important stuff we as Americans need to know the truth about ... like our lying administration?
:thumbup: you said a mouthful.
Feb 3, 2014 09:51:55 #
Gnslngr wrote:
I love this. Here is a post from a man who never ... (show quote)
I agree with you gnslnger. To express a judgement with no facts on the case is heinous.
Feb 3, 2014 10:06:19 #
Gnslngr wrote:
Ummm...... since there was absolutely no evidence of a sex game (and you dishonor the victim's memory when you repeat that scurrilous lie), and since all the available evidence shown in the press says that Knox was not there, I'm wondering if your realize how silly you sound.
At least that's my opinion having read the trial transcripts. I wasn't at the actual trial.
At least that's my opinion having read the trial transcripts. I wasn't at the actual trial.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
Feb 3, 2014 10:20:22 #
coco1964 wrote:
Only one out of 7 pages---who's not rational??
:thumbup: :thumbup: Good question.
Feb 3, 2014 10:24:05 #
Feb 3, 2014 11:06:26 #
Penny MG wrote:
I agree with you gnslnger. To express a judgement with no facts on the case is heinous.
The world is coming to an end. gnslnger has finally posted something that makes sense. And I agree with him. The end is near! :shock:
Feb 3, 2014 11:07:40 #
pounder35 wrote:
The world is coming to an end. gnslnger has finally posted something that makes sense. And I agree with him. The end is near! :shock:
Actually, there were 3 of us that usually don't agree, but did this time. Yes, the end is near..HAHAHA :-o :lol: :lol:
Feb 3, 2014 11:30:07 #
mwsilvers
Loc: Central New Jersey
pounder35 wrote:
The world is coming to an end. gnslnger has finally posted something that makes sense. And I agree with him. The end is near! :shock:
I believe you and I have gone head to head in the past as well but seem to be more or less on the same page here. I guess miracles do happen. :-)
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