Ghspalding Loc: Georgia

Stupid, stupid British snobbery.....consider themselves intellectuals.

Ghspalding Loc: Georgia

The British, an isle of intellectual giants!
What dopes.

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

I suppose it’s inevitable that the pardoning of Turing would bring about a rash of comments, many of them uninformed. Whilst I fully agree with the pardon it is totally clear that in 1952 he was guilty of a crime that was on the statute books at that time. Furthermore neither the Queen or the House of Lords had anything to do with either granting or not granting a pardon to him Initiating this pardon was in the remit of the Secretary of State for Justice, which he did and which of course begs the question, ‘why did not of his predecessors take this step?’ The suggestion of a posthumous knighthood fails completely to understand the aims and objectives of this process.
Having studied Turing at some length over a few years and tried to assess him for both his contributions to the war effort at Bletchley Park and as a man, reveals some interesting facts. Undoubtedly he was an incredible man with an incredible brain and his work with Enigma was phenomenal. However those who lost their lives retrieving the first Enigma machine from a German U Boat in the Atlantic Ocean should not be forgotten. Turing, brilliant as he was, would probably not have had the early successes in this area he did, had it not been for those who gave their lives to recover the Enigma machine that was instrumental in him cracking the codes. Whilst his work may certainly have reduced the length of the war, it was only a throwaway remark to this effect by Dwight Eisenhower that has been picked up without any real evidence and could possibly have been equally attributed to the sailors who recovered the first Enigma machine from the U Boat in the Atlantic.
Despite his successes at Bletchley Park, it seems that Turing was certainly an ‘enigma’ himself and possible a very difficult person to like. Apart from his homosexuality which at the time was a big taboo, he was undoubtedly a suffer of Asperger’s Syndrome (an Autism condition), an illness, or condition that at the time little was known about, but even today, when it is understood, many people find it difficult to socialise with sufferers. He did not socialise well at Bletchley Park and accounts of his time there make mention of his high pitched voice, hesitating stammer, a laugh that would try the patience of even his closet friends and a habit of concluding any social interaction by sidling out of the room with eyes lowered murmuring something akin to thanks. He was certainly not easy to like or understand. Eccentricities he displayed for example were a claim that he had calculated the number of rotations his bicycle chain would make before it fell off, at which point he started pedalling backwards to prevent this happening and also pedalling around the Buckinghamshire countryside wearing a full gas mask. Just think how we in our lives today would respond to a person behaving like this. However the gas mask may have been worn to avoid attacks of hay fever. Turing was a really shy person and almost no one got to know him and thus have a chance of liking or disliking him too much.
It was certainly a tragedy at the time and even more so now, looking back, that Turing’s homosexuality undoubtedly contributed to his early death and it is so right that he has been granted a pardon even at this late stage. Not before time, many would say, and I would agree. However it would be wrong to blame politicians, courts or anyone else at the time for what happened then. Under the secrecy rules at the time, no one knew about Turing’s involvement with cracking codes at Bletchley Park. No one outside a small group even knew about Enigma and nothing about this work could be mentioned to the Courts in attempted mitigation, who then dealt with him in the same way as any others found guilty of this offence. To most at the time, certainly the Courts, Turing was just another homosexual who had committed a crime as a result of his sexuality and not a hero whose work had likely saved many lives.

bemused_bystander Loc: Orkney Islands, UK

The Poles gave us (Brits) two, three rotor, enigma machines in 1939, I cannot find the book atm, it might have been "the hut six story" Everybody who lost their lives should be remembered, but without a doubt, the work at Bletchly Park did shorten the war, and, whatever his character, Turing was a key member of that establishment.

Spindrift62 Loc: Dorset, England. U.K.

Perhaps the Nobel Peace Prize (posthumously) would be more appropriate and would not need any acts of parliament or Royal interventions to achieve. Probably more fitting as well in view of the fact that the lives saved covered virtually every country in the world.

TrainNut Loc: Ridin' the rails

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

bemused_bystander Loc: Orkney Islands, UK

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
But the rules say it cannot be posthumous, that's why Rosalind Franklin didn't get it for her work on DNA

Spindrift62 Loc: Dorset, England. U.K.

Rules can be changed if enough people want it. Look at the way the 'rules' have been changed regarding homosexuality since Turin's day. Nothing devised by man is unchangeable. Agree that Franklin deserves recognition as well. So that's two on the list then.

romanticf16 Loc: Commerce Twp, MI

The U.S. did too, with Congressional Medal of Honor awards 50 years after WWII to Black Troops.

RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida

Except in maybe Russia and parts of Africa where queer-beating is becoming a sport of sorts.

TrainNut Loc: Ridin' the rails

Sorta like feeding the Christians to the lions in Rome.

RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida

yes, but with a more perverted sense of pride.

0627ramram32 Loc: Orange County, CA, USA

Would you gentlemen read "If carpenters talked like photography forum members" in this day's postings?