Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Was it not Saul who became St Paul?

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

All for one and one for all

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

On numerous occasions we've discussed 'proof', and that the sources cited need some sort of credibility. This article from PBS may be a decent source to consider regarding Mandala's purported terrorism. www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/mandela/etc/cron.html‎ At the very least one should be reluctant to pass on facts like 30,000 murders, etc. I'm not saying that PBS is an absolute, but surely the same can be said of some of the myths being passed on.

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

I am down in South Africa watching the Nedbank Golf Tounament. Blacks Whites and Coloureds are walking the fairways and sitting happily in the stands together enjoying thus fabulous event. This could not have happened 30 years ago and whatever steps Nelson Mandela took over many years to bring about that change has been well worth it.

Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey

Nope never served time in the military so no one has anything to worry there. The fact that you all dance so well when asked simple questions tells me a lot about many of you. This side argument has become too far removed from the original topic of Nelson Mandela, who IMHO, while maybe not a saint, was great man foibles and all. RIP Oh,and Croce keep smiling 8-) :This not the argument clinic? no it is abuse! :shock:

Croce Loc: Earth

Do you suck your toes at night?
Well Blurry do you? Inquiring minds want to know!

Croce Loc: Earth

Singing to the choir is, as a conservative Republican, a constant complaint of mine. It is a worthless endeavor which accomplishes nothing. It is debilitating and futile. It is the bedrock upon which the tea party builds its castle and is my biggest complaint against them and why I so often herein express my opinion that the party needs to rid itself of their ranting before it can move forward.

Singing to ones own choir is lost motion. It is tantamount to a rat running in a caged wheel. We need to sing sweet, enchanting lullabys to the opposition. We need converts, not cheerleaders.

Croce Loc: Earth

I agree with your assessment.

TheeGambler Loc: The green pastures of Northeast Texas

I guess you are fine with all the lies and obfuscation that built this regime. Every lie matters and Americans ignore these lies at their own peril!

You are dreaming that conservative dream, it goes like this!
"If I can just say the right words, I can make a difference and all will be well." NOT going to happen! Talk until you are exhausted and you will have gained nothing. Reasonable people are willing and able to assimilate facts, outcomes, and workable solutions. But it won't work with extreme ideologues.

No one can make "cogent arguments" to the evil that has control of our country. They and their minions, frankly, don't care what is good for this Nation and they sure don't care about "the will of the people." They don't want a better economy, more jobs, nor do they want us to stay a sovereign nation.

These people have radical, irrational beliefs and emotions.
They are not "reasonable" but are a part of "group-think." Their goal is to relentlessly undermine the foundations of our country and take away individual freedom and wealth. No matter how well you make your "cogent argument" these retrogressive Marxists (and worse) will ignore it.
They are intent on subordinating Americans to the will of the government. The majority of their minions are devoted to the same cause. You see it on this forum. No matter the "cogent argument" or facts that are presented, the stubborn support the destructive policies and mandates.

Another thing that is forgotten by you is that these Marxists prey on conservatives that insist on "following the rules" and conservatives that want to "reason" with them. All the more time to advance their goals. You seem to have forgotten that the goals of these retrogressive Marxists is the "redistribution of wealth" and the promise of "free everything." Hand in hand with that they promote class envy and racism. This gets them many devoted followers.

What do the conservatives offer! We offer "self-reliance, personal responsibility, family values, and a return to the traditional moral fiber of past America." The conservative message, your "cogent argument" doesn't "sell" to our changing demographics and illegals. That is why are borders are wide open, to dilute traditional America!

There is a large part of the population that already knows the "cogent argument." But, the "cogent argument" doesn't matter at the polls, it doesn't matter to Washington, it doesn't matter to rogue agencies that make their own laws and define their own domains. The time for having a reasonable discourse with those that want to destroy our country is a lost opportunity.

The only thing that will work is when Americans become so uncomfortable with their situation that they act. Nothing has gotten the attention of the people like the failure of obamacare. When people see their pockets being emptied and their families without care, when people personally experience the failure of socialism and government, it means a lot more than any words that can be spoken.
Only now are eyes being opened to what is ahead.

magicray Loc: Tampa Bay, Florida

Vanderpix wrote:
Define communismThen the Three Musketeers were commies?

Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey

Nope Marxists! "everyman for himself"- Curly Howard :lol:
Labels should only be on cans and jars not on people.

TheeGambler Loc: The green pastures of Northeast Texas

All wars are fought for economic reasons and usually those that start the wars are the ones that intend to profit.. like Johnson. American sons and daughters are sacrificed to fill the bank accounts of the elite. Those young people are just "cannon fodder."

As for madela he was not allowed in the U. S. until 2008 when he was taken off our terrorist watch list.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

Mandela visited New York City and met with Mayor Dinkins in June of 1990. Check The New York Times June 21,1990 edition, another myth dispelled.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

They weren't anything exept a figment of Dumas' imagination

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Now that was a nice response and I applaud it even if there are parts of it that I really don't think that you take far enough, the "radical" elements working in our government that you refer to still hide their true intent behind the rhetoric that they espouse, they will not come out and announce their true vision for our country and our economy because they are fully aware that the American people would reject them.

Where you and I differ in our opinions is that for the most part I think that the majority of the American people remain asleep in regard to the large political movements currently at work that will define their futures, it is true that some are waking up but they have effectively been demonized by the left, our president and his adoring press. If one were to ask you or I about the Tea Party we would make a positive review, stating the real purpose and ambitions of the Tea Party, less regulation and governmental control, bringing fiscal sanity back to DC, making government accountable to its citizens and tax payers etc. However, if you were to ask the average young person about the Tea Party you would most likely get a much different response, more along the lines that they are a bunch of right wing nut cases who have little understanding or knowledge of the complicated issues that they and our country faces when in actuality the opposite is true, the Tea Party types are probably much better informed than is the general population, even so this is not how the much of the country perceives them, starting in our schools, our colleges, popular media, there is a concerted effort to alter the reality of conservatism, couple that with the progressive democratic party dividing this country into minority groups making promises to each with little regard of future outcomes or at what cost to personal freedoms and liberty, or even if they will be kept, but they do so to get buy in and it is working for them.

IMO conservatives must be able to help folks to see where progressive policies lead us, such as when the FED stops printing money and interest rates are allowed to rise back to norms that the interest on the debt line of the federal budget will be larger than Social Security or our Defense budget and we will get nothing in return for that money, not to mention that our government seems to not appreciate the fact that the current spending producing those deficits is ill directed, unaccounted for, and producing no real positive effects for the future. All we are doing is robbing the economic freedom of future generations as they will have a larger portion of their economy devoted to unproductive federal spending.

Really, I want you to think about two things, after making that one response to you I have not made further comments about your posts, it was you who engaged me in this thread because you somehow felt that my commenting on our involvement in Vietnam as being no less an atrocity than other bad acts in recent history, and if one really does the analysis what I said has merit. I have the upmost respect for those who serve and have served our country Vietnam included, the way our returning warriors were treated upon coming home from Vietnam was disgraceful, it was not our service men and women who put us in that war nor was it they who kept us fighting that war.... Johnson upon given the opportunity to end that war was quoted as saying "I will not be the first president to lose a war." sounds like a pretty shitty reason to ask American families to give their children's lives, so that president Johnson can keep his ego intact.

Anyway, your post here serves you much better than the other post some weeks back, you have articulated yourself very well even though you may not give a rat's ass what I think.

cheers.