Nightski

Of course :)

Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada

Yea manual in what way . You look in the eyepeice, see. Where your light meter is pointing adjust your shutter speed , or your fstop to bring needle into the zone where you will get a picture . What is manual about that ??

Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada

True manual means no help at all from the camera . Meaning if you want to get the pic. Today you must use a hand held light meter, or be prepared for hit or miss untell you get it . Which could be a long time time depending on how good you are at reading light to the f stop you choose.

Nightski

That's ok with me, because I am not taking any life or death photos, and when I do take an important one I am extra careful and I download immediately to my laptop. Plus I always shoot a few different settings on my light meter for insurance. I almost never shoot indoors. It's not my thing. :) I got some today of a grandfather and grandson netting bait for their bait & tackle store. All in manual. Maybe I'll share later today.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

For me, buying a nice dSLR that has plentiful digital assistance available and a CPU to calculate close to perfect exposure and focus in the majority of situations that are not necessarily meant to be artistic, then disabling all of it to operate in manual like it's 1955 - maybe even using an external light meter - is ridiculous minimalism. It's like buying a brand new high-powered sport BMW sedan, swapping the automatic trans out for a 3-speed stick, pulling the hoses out of the power steering and power brakes to disable them, driving in first gear all the time, starting the engine with a crank, and lighting your night driving with lanterns duct taped to the front fenders.

I don't advocate sticking to full auto mode after a beginner starts having the urge to learn about the relationship between ISO, shutter, and aperture, but I also cannot recommend that someone who's already having blue snow, blurry results from movement or bad focus, inadequate depth of field, and other problems (that even the camera's auto mode can't overcome), should remove every kind of assistance the camera can provide and go to manual.

There's the semi-auto levels of shutter priority and aperture priority to consider that help the shooter during learning the basics. And auto-focus, if the right mode is selected and it is pointed at the correct spot, can offer better focus than most human eyes. Image stabilization can help blur if a tripod is not being used. Learning to juggle aperture, shutter, and ISO to get what you want is easier learned in a semi-auto mode while focus and camera shake is handled for you, rather than in full manual.

Waving rebellious "Manual Rules!" arms in the air doesn't help this person any more than sign-carrying arm-waving "RAW Rules" fanatics would. You may actually make her problems much worse because there is apparently a big lack of knowledge of the basics. More created problems stacked on top of already existing problems results in frustration and disappointment.

Just yesterday a guy showed me his photos from a botanical garden of a wide range of butterflies, dragon flies, flowers, small lizards, etc. They are so good that the butterfly sanctuary at the botanical gardens has asked him to allow them to enlarge his work for big wall displays on mounted canvas in their lobby. What he showed me is SO good that I've rarely seen published shots by professionals that exceed what he has achieved. Apparently the butterfly place thinks so too.

His success to failure rate isn't very high but only because his compositions sometimes have part of the subject blocked or interfered with by a leaf or something, certainly not because of bad lighting, bad exposure, bad focus, blur, background, or white balance. These are eye-popping high-quality and perfect without need to enhance them in any way.

He recently bought Corel Paintshop Pro X5 but doesn't know how to do anything with it except contrast and saturation so it's not post processing that makes his work outstanding. He just has the good eye, takes every week trips to the botanical garden, and has a lot of patience.

I thought he was an experienced long-time intermediate amateur but as we talked and I started asking about how he did this, or how he did that, his expression became one of puzzlement. He shyly admitted (like I was going to humiliate him) that he uses his Nikon D3200 with 70-300mm zoom in full auto mode because he has no clue about anything else. He had no idea what I was talking about when using photographic vocabulary.

He now wants me to start teaching him because he also has been told by somebody that he "needs" the knowledge so he can take control by working in manual. I immediately told him he doesn't "need" it but that it's good to understand the basics and try some aperture or shutter priority in his quest for understanding first.

At this point, he wants to learn and I'll show him what he wants to know about photographic basics and Paintshop Pro, but I believe heading too fast in that direction could actually befuddle and frustrate instead of help him.

He's going along in full-auto and letting Nikon do the mechanical thinking for him. He spends all his mind power and time on finding interesting subjects and composition. He's happy, enjoys photography immensely, has been complimented by those who know his subjects intimately, and I'm going to make sure it remains that way with a careful journey into semi-auto modes. He can move on into manual later if he wants but at least he'll already know specifically why he wants to go there.

Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada

Its confuseing, you say your old and lazy now so you like the manual shift cars but your not going to let that happen to you with your camera.? I think you have that backwards.

Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada

Im a lot older than you , and lazyer and i would not ever get another manual shift car , standerd shift

Nightski

He's going along in full-auto and letting Nikon do the mechanical thinking for him. He spends all his mind power and time on finding interesting subjects and composition. He's happy, enjoys photography immensely, has been complimented by those who know his subjects intimately, and I'm going to make sure it remains that way with a careful journey into semi-auto modes. He can move on into manual later if he wants but at least he'll already know specifically why he wants to go there.[/quote]

Mark, can you be specific about exactly why you think I have NO IDEA why I choose the settings I choose, please? If you look back at all my messages you will find that I am extremely patient and kind when taking instructions on how to get better. I have been listening and following instructions for 5 months. One of the first things I was told was to buy Bryan Peterson's book on exposure. Several people told me this. Go back and look. So I did. You are directly contradicting what Bryan Peterson says in his book. Do you have any idea how many DIFFERENT CONTRADICTING instructions I have gotten? At some point I have to make up my mind on what is valuable, and what is not. I have quite a few very experienced and talented mentors who support and help me. They have been through all my tribulations up to this point, and have helped me greatly. The people who have helped me most are the ones I trust.

Papa Joe Loc: Midwest U.S.

Mark, can you be specific about exactly why you think I have NO IDEA why I choose the settings I choose, please? If you look back at all my messages you will find that I am extremely patient and kind when taking instructions on how to get better. I have been listening and following instructions for 5 months. One of the first things I was told was to buy Bryan Peterson's book on exposure. Several people told me this. Go back and look. So I did. You are directly contradicting what Bryan Peterson says in his book. Do you have any idea how many DIFFERENT CONTRADICTING instructions I have gotten? At some point I have to make up my mind on what is valuable, and what is not. I have quite a few very experienced and talented mentors who support and help me. They have been through all my tribulations up to this point, and have helped me greatly. The people who have helped me most are the ones I trust.[/quote]

Well said Nightski! You've 'capsulized' the entire conversation to the bare minimum it needs to be, specifically:
Do what you're comfortable with, and keep it that way. THEN if you are challenged to make a change, do it when YOU are ready. Whatever words is still the best by-word, in my opinion. You know what you're doing... as I always say, ENJOY!

Papa Joe Loc: Midwest U.S.

Sorry for the typo! Should have read, "Whatever WORKS", not 'words'
:roll:

mborn Loc: Massachusetts

Again well said Do what you are comfortable doing. BUT do not be afraid to change. Keep learning. Utilize all the tools that you have available in your camera

tramsey Loc: Texas

I don't think you bought an expensive DSLR and an expensive lens to put it on auto hoping the camera will figure out what you want your photo to look like when you take it. Auto is good at times when you have a quick shot and then it's gone or your not sure of the lighting or if your just getting to know your new camera and a few other times. But mostly you want to tell the camera what to do.

What you are hearing are other peoples opinions and they are all good for them. Now you have to figure out what works for YOU not them. So now it is time to go outside and start shooting, since you don't like to shoot inside. I don't either too much the light is funny. Just go and shot and enjoy your art. I've seen your photos and they are really good. I liked your skunked puppies and your two body guards that you call your boys. They are good. But you look at the photos of your boys and compare them to what you have taken there is differently a difference. You are being too critical on your work. Just go shot and enjoy what your doing.
If you want to read something on composition in a little different light take a look at what Ken Rockwell has to say. Here's a link

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/composition.htm

My advise: Just go shot :D :thumbup:

Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada

Marco: Bravo this is the best info on this supject i have read sofar and makes more sence than any thing else written here . But isee it all the time a new comer to this hobby reads acouple books , learn's a couple features on there camera , get' all excited about it , so now they want to rewrite the book . But they have one thing in common , once they know every thing about what a camera can do, cant do . They change there way of thinking it may take a few years but it will come . Then they laugh at themselves . I heard them and there stories lots of times at our camera club . And there coming from seniors who have been at this for years .

Nightski

Thanks tramsey for your input. I didn't buy my dslr camera. I got it 5 years ago with my American Express points absolutely free. It is a Canon Rebel XTI with a kit lens. I had always wanted a really nice camera so I could take some of those awesome photos. Well a year after I had it, my husband bought me a samsung p&s for Christmas because he knew how disappointed in it. It just didn't take very good pictures. I had been using it on full auto, not having any clue what I had. I took outdoor pictures with my Samsung all last summer, and then in the fall, I told a friend, who has a full frame camera, and is a very good photographer, why I was using my p&s instead of my Canon. He told me I needed to get my canon out of auto, and he directed me to UHH. I started in January, and I have been outside everyday since taking pictures. I even went out on the days when it was 27 below fahrenheit here. I have taken thousands of photos. I have a few excellent ones. quite a few really good ones, some good ones, and tons of deleted ones. I am having the time of my life with my new discovery. I absolutely love it, even on bad days. So...can anyone tell me why, at this point, I should not be shooting in manual? And why are so many people so mad about this. You can delete the bad ones!!!

Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada

I dont think she would bother with Rockwell as he never takes his cameras out of p which he calls the Pro. Mode its nikons full auto mode . And he has a lot of books out with him using nothing but that mode . With his $6000 nikons and $5000 lenses to his $400 point and shoot . Maybe she should see them , maybe she has all ready . If not she may learn something . any way its worth a shot nightsky google ---- kenRockwell . com ---