BebuLamar

That is why excecutives would do those unethical things. If the company loses money their job is threaten. If they ended up killing people the consequences are all that different so they decided on doing things that could possibly make money.

ecblackiii Loc: Maryland

That would be the 314 Clipper. Only twelve were built. Two were sunk in 1945 and 1947 in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans respectively. The others were scrapped for parts after being retired from service. Today there is only a plywood mockup of the 314 remaining. It's in the Foynes Flying Boat Museum of Limerick, Ireland. The museum is on the site of the original transatlantic flying-boat terminal.

GEngel-usmc Loc: Spencerport NY - I miss Lakeland, FL

[quote=jerryc41]Sure, Boeing has messed up, but every time a Boeing plane has a problem, it's not the fault of the company. A Boeing jet recently lost a wheel just after take-off, and another one ran off the runway after landing. Headlines are emphasizing the fact that there was another Boeing problem. I can understand this because of the problems caused by company decisions, but not every problem is caused by the company.

On the other hand, Boeing has still not turned over any information about the plug door to the NTSB - after two months. Either they don't have the paperwork that they're supposed to have, or the paperwork is not what it should be.
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Can the NTSB and/or FAA recommend that Boeing cease production of aircraft due to Safety concerns of their production lines, until they produce a safe workplace and appearance of all requested 25 workers and hidden Spirit contractors demanded by the NTSB and FAA? May be the only way to get Boeing to move on this! The more they delay, the more $$$ planes go out the door.

RKastner Loc: Davenport, FL

What could ever go wrong with not hiring the best of the best?

ecblackiii Loc: Maryland

[quote=GEngel-usmc]

The FAA can and does stop production whenever a problem warrants it. In the door blowout experience, all aircraft with that door were inspected by the FAA. The conclusion was that the accident was a one-off problem, the aircraft model was safe to fly, and that production could resume after corrective measures to prevent reoccurrence. The summons of employees is a separate legal issue that involves lawyers on all three sides (company management, employee unions, and the Government).

Gilkar

Take a look at John Oliver's recent expose (rant?) on Boing. It is eye opening.

ecblackiii Loc: Maryland

It's not very factual. It's comical commentary intended as entertainment with a lot of hyperbole and inuendo. It's like a Saturday Night Live Skit.

bikinkawboy Loc: north central Missouri

There’s a big difference between design flaws and insufficient maintenance or safety checks. The Ford Pinto and Mercury Maverick had a design flaw that was Ford’s fault, the bolt sticking kit from the steering column that would gouge into a person’s knee in the event of a collision.

One time I had to replace the front disc rotors on our Maverick after the wife failed to tell me about the grinding noise when applying the brakes. That had nothing to do with Ford and was my-our fault.

A bearing fails and a wheel falls off, not Boeing’s fault. If the bolts in the door plug were not installed at the factory, Boeing’s fault. If they were removed but not replaced later, not their fault.

But in these sue happy days where you can sue a cake maker for refusing to make a cake with something like, “Happy wedding day Joe and Bill”, what do you expect? Anyone with hurt feelings who thinks that suing someone will give them the respect of others and make them feel better needs to grow a little backbone and realize that the world doesn’t revolve around them.

I’ve told my kids that oftentimes the measure of a man isn’t by what he says and does, but rather by what he doesn’t say or do. There’s a time to speak up and a time to keep your mouth shut.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

My son was in two car crashes, and I was in one. Neither of us was injured. Surviving a plane crash is unlikely, especially when people block the aisles to get their luggage out of the overheads. "I'm not gonna die withut clean underwear." Idiots!

What scares me is the number of crashes involving small planes - almost one a day. Both pilot error and mechanical problems are to blame, but mostly the pilot.

Which reminds me - A $20 million soccer player, just 22 years old, was flown from Wales to France. He said that he was scared to death because of the plane and the pilot. He was even more scared flying from France back to Wales, but he went anyway. Between the pilot and the plane, he never made it. They crashed into the English Channel. The family had to beg for money to search for the plane and recover his body. The pilot wasn't qualified to carry paying customers, and he lacked other qualifications. The plane was forty years old (I think), and even though the autopilot was labeled "Inoperative," he was using it. Bad pilot in a bad plane.

Canonuser Loc: UK and South Africa

My grandson who is a pilot flies for a company who initially bought a number of 737Max planes. Although none were delivered before the two crashes attributed to the MCAS problems, he received an A4 sheet of paper originating from Boeing describing the issues to be taken into account when flying this plane. After the grounding and investigation into the MCAS issues, the A4 sheet of paper was replaced by two days of training in a flight simulator.
After Boeing’s collaboration with McDonald Douglas, emphasis moved from technical perfection to Wall Street results and therein lay a problem that cost hundreds of lives and the company $2.5b.
The Boeing 737 MAX groundings had a deep financial impact on the aviation industry and a significant effect on the national economy of the United States.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

GM and suppliers and decisions ... oh well... Space X make a change quickly using internal materials and few external suppliers... worst Space X supplier is the FAA, they supply permits slowly to Space X, but too easily to Bowing.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

And yet, the former CEO and investors walked away $$ millions and smiles on their faces.

andesbill

You’re not going to like this, but in the case of airlines, their poor maintenance, cramped seats, luggage hassles, poor quality control, terrible service (on line, on phones, in airports), is all due to capitalism, the rush for the bottom line.
Passengers don’t matter, only the stock price matters.
Jet Blue was once a very good airline. On time, comfortable seats, good service. Then they were bought out by a company that immediately added more seats by squeezing everyone together and charging a lot for seats that had as much legroom as the regular seats did beforehand. This squeeze, (now by every airline), has resulted in too few overhead spaces for luggage. So, if you want to make sure that you have room for your luggage you need to buy an overpriced ticket.
There is little choice, so no real competition, which is at the heart of what capitalism is supposed to be about.
The loss of maintenance workers, factory workers, and quality control workers, while enhancing the bottom line, increases the danger in flying and produces a poor experience for the customers who have no real alternative, as there is little to no competition for many destinations.
I believe in capitalism, but what is happening with the airlines has already crashed 2 Boeing planes, with no end in sight.
You would have to have a death wish to fly a 737 Max.

Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada

You cannot put enough lipstick on this pig. It is an example of a failed government, corruption, malfeasance, corporate greed, and criminal negligence causing death.

It starts early in the Boeing certification program. Boeing has been allowed to re-certify aircraft, based on the original certification. This can be done without additional inspection, and checks. For example the original Boeing was certified. The subsequent dozen different models are based on this certification. Additional re-certification was not required. Compare the 737 line to the original; there are substantial and significant modifications.

The government has underfunded the FAA to the point they cannot do their job and a consequence was allowing Boeing to look after it’s own quality control. This has resulted in inadequate work by Boeing, and is reflected in many of their problems.

Corporate Boeing has changed recently with the boardroom ‘push’ for greater profits. There is a disconnect between the current board and the airplane manufacturing business. This has resulted in the current standard of their work.

As a result of their inadequate work, several hundred people have been killed.

Somebody (I’m not sure I can trust the government; they are part of it) should do an investigation into several facets of Boeing. This should include:
• determine which Congressmen and Senators received donations from Boeing;
• determine how these Congressmen and Senators voted for certification of the various models;
• determine how these Congressmen and Senators voted for defunding the FAA and allowing Boeing to do their own certification;
• determine how these Congressmen and Senators voted to allow Boeing to resume their flights; and
• determine what instructions were given by Corporate Boeing for changes in the manner of production.

It’s a systemic failure that has cost several hundred lives, and someone should be accountable. To reiterate, there is not enough lipstick.

The Air Alaska flight was extremely lucky. The flight was climbing and all passengers would have had their seat belts on. After levelling off, most passengers undo their seat belts. Had the failure occurred at 37,000 feet and not the low altitude (16,000 feet, I think), the result would likely have been catastrophic and there would likely be no survivors.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

My understanding from a former colleague that works for Boeing is that the corporate culture changed after the merger with McDonald Douglas and the headquarters move to Chicago, with more emphasis on quarterly profits and less on QC. Not working for Boeing, I’m not qualified to state this is unequivocally true, but I can tell you from 40 years in large computer sales, that QUARTERLY sales/profits, which drives the stock price and management bonuses, overrides EVERYTHING else in every publically traded company I’ve worked for. We’ve done everything you can imagine, including shipping (and billing for) empty boxes the last few days of the quarter.