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Ansel Adam's "Zone System"
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Mar 3, 2024 01:05:27   #
A. T.
 
JD750 wrote:
Yep the zone system still works. In camera metering systems makes it easier to apply now.


Well, actually a handheld meter is far more accurate than in camera. My sekonic measures a 1 percent area compared to the 10 to 15 percent camera meter.

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Mar 3, 2024 14:00:36   #
texasdigital Loc: Conroe, Texas
 
BebuLamar wrote:
He didn't use the term ISO (although ISO was in use before his death) but he could and did change the film sensitvity by indicating different development for his negative. So in effect he could and did choose different ISO when he felt needed. Just that he needed no triangle.
Although he never knew the triangle he did wrote about a paragraph on the choices of aperture/film speed and shutter speed. But only 1 paragraph was enough not the entire book about it and 1 paragraph about exposure.


Ahem ... if I recall, ISO was not the term we used. It was ASA, admittedly it was basically the same concept, but by a different name.

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Mar 3, 2024 14:06:44   #
BebuLamar
 
texasdigital wrote:
Ahem ... if I recall, ISO was not the term we used. It was ASA, admittedly it was basically the same concept, but by a different name.


ISO was already in use by 1984 when he passed away but of course few people used that term back then. But any way the reason he never talked about the triangle was NOT because the ISO or ASA can't be changed easily in the film days. But rather it's not an important topic. You don't need the whole book about the triangle.

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Mar 3, 2024 15:07:30   #
srt101fan
 
BebuLamar wrote:
ISO was already in use by 1984 when he passed away but of course few people used that term back then. But any way the reason he never talked about the triangle was NOT because the ISO or ASA can't be changed easily in the film days. But rather it's not an important topic. You don't need the whole book about the triangle.



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Mar 3, 2024 15:16:32   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
ISO was already in use by 1984 when he passed away but of course few people used that term back then. But any way the reason he never talked about the triangle was NOT because the ISO or ASA can't be changed easily in the film days. But rather it's not an important topic. You don't need the whole book about the triangle.


Back in the early ‘80s film came with ASA/ISO on it. I’m not sure how ISO isn’t an important topic. Maybe I don’t need the whole book in the triangle and maybe you don’t, but different people learn differently and many people feel that the book was valuable to them. Maybe you just make your negative comments because it makes you feel superior and that’s the only way you can feel good about yourself. If so that’s pretty sad.

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Mar 3, 2024 21:03:41   #
BartHx
 
A. T. wrote:
Okay, what I'm doing now in my studies is learning how to use my spot meter to determine the appropriate exposure for 120 film.


When you learn the zone system your spot meter will allow you make good use of it. With roll film you will not have quite as much control over the image unless you have at least three backs for your Hasselblad so that you will have a roll to push process, one to pull process, and one to process normally (not really practical at this point) but you will be able to make sure you don't wash out your highlights OR completely lose the shadows OR appropriately place the mid tones (surprisingly, skin tones, regardless of race, expose correctly at or very near zone VI). I apply it in that context with my own work and am pleased with the results. You have a great camera to work with. Take your time and apply concepts as you learn and understand them. Above all, have fun.

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Mar 3, 2024 22:50:41   #
A. T.
 
BartHx wrote:
When you learn the zone system your spot meter will allow you make good use of it. With roll film you will not have quite as much control over the image unless you have at least three backs for your Hasselblad so that you will have a roll to push process, one to pull process, and one to process normally (not really practical at this point) but you will be able to make sure you don't wash out your highlights OR completely lose the shadows OR appropriately place the mid tones (surprisingly, skin tones, regardless of race, expose correctly at or very near zone VI). I apply it in that context with my own work and am pleased with the results. You have a great camera to work with. Take your time and apply concepts as you learn and understand them. Above all, have fun.
When you learn the zone system your spot meter wil... (show quote)


Absolutely and thanks for the suggestions and information.

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Mar 4, 2024 09:13:00   #
wds0410 Loc: Nunya
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Many years ago I had the great experience of attending an Ansel Adams workshop. I studied all his books and over the years, applied much of the Zone Syste to my commercial photography.

Congratulations on your Hasselblad purchase- I used the entire system for decades- it is a fine precision instrument.

If you have no basic knowledge of film photography you will be operating at a disadvantage as you are attempting to tackle the Zone System. Before venturing into that system, you should have a basic foundation in film process and printing techniques. If you start with an easily and currently obtainable black-and-white roll film such as (for example) Kodak Tri-X, there's a recommended, IOS rating (400), and a prescribed processing procedure as to chemistry, time, temperature, etc. The Zons system entails various changes in the standardized exposure/processig relationship dependg on the effect you are attempting to achieve in any given situation. Greyscale and gradations are another important component,

The system was originally designed to be used with SHEET film or CUT film where each sheet of film could be individually exposed and processed whereas with 120-roll film, all 12 exposures would need to be exposed and processed in the same manner.

Certin aspects of the so-called exposure triangle still apply but it is not mentioned in the original literature because the system calls for testing and establishing your own film sensitivity standards (ISO) for your gear and shootg style. The film process requires particular techniques such as pre-soaking, and extremely careful temperature control. Very basically, the is a lot of overexposure and underdevelopment to decrease contrast and underexposure and overdevelopment to increase contrast.

Makig prints on an analog enlarger is in itself an art form. There are papers of various contrast and total charistics, various developers, stop baths, fixers, hypo eliminators, and careful washing and drying procedures.

Certain Zone System principles can be applied to digital photography but the original system is film/analog, chemistry-based.

An analogy- You purchased a Hasselblad- it is like a beginning piano student purchasing a Steinway Grand Piano. The problem is, that the student can not sit down and play Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerti N0. 3 without first learning the scales, techniques, and lots of practice.

Alright! It ain't rocket science or nuclear physics- but it takes some doing!
Many years ago I had the great experience of atten... (show quote)


This is one of the best responses I've seen on this forum on any topic. Well done.

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Mar 4, 2024 09:22:07   #
srt101fan
 
wds0410 wrote:
This is one of the best responses I've seen on this forum on any topic. Well done.


The man (Ed Shapiro) knows! He's walked the walk.

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Mar 5, 2024 14:16:01   #
topcat Loc: Alameda, CA
 
Congratulations, it will be a great experience, or not. It takes a lot of time.
But developing your film, and then scanning it will make a huge difference. I still shoot 35mm B&W film now and then. I have an old scanner that I use.
It works for me. Not as good as printing yourself, but a lot easier.

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Mar 5, 2024 16:53:39   #
A. T.
 
topcat wrote:
Congratulations, it will be a great experience, or not. It takes a lot of time.
But developing your film, and then scanning it will make a huge difference. I still shoot 35mm B&W film now and then. I have an old scanner that I use.
It works for me. Not as good as printing yourself, but a lot easier.


Well first, thanks for responding and the congratulations. I will say that this Hassleblad is one fine piece of equipment.....too beautiful to use, not one scratch or blemish. My original plans were never to develop the film but possibly scan the negatives. So, I began studying film photography and I even began reading Ansel Adams "The Negative" hoping to gather even more information. Only to realize that Ansel Adams success actually came from within his darkroom. So, without any disappointment, I will continue to read "The Negative" because I am fascinated with what that man did in his time with the equipment that was at his disposal. I won't be developing film and I'm still contemplating scanning negatives. I have five of Nikon's flagship DSLRs which will continue to be my go-to cameras; however, I will shoot with my Hasselblad when I'm not admiring it on the camera shelf and totally enjoy just the feel of it in my hands.

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Mar 5, 2024 17:08:19   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
A. T. wrote:
Well first, thanks for responding and the congratulations. I will say that this Hassleblad is one fine piece of equipment.....too beautiful to use, not one scratch or blemish. My original plans were never to develop the film but possibly scan the negatives. So, I began studying film photography and I even began reading Ansel Adams "The Negative" hoping to gather even more information. Only to realize that Ansel Adams success actually came from within his darkroom. So, without any disappointment, I will continue to read "The Negative" because I am fascinated with what that man did in his time with the equipment that was at his disposal. I won't be developing film and I'm still contemplating scanning negatives. I have five of Nikon's flagship DSLRs which will continue to be my go-to cameras; however, I will shoot with my Hasselblad when I'm not admiring it on the camera shelf and totally enjoy just the feel of it in my hands.
Well first, thanks for responding and the congratu... (show quote)


I’ll just add that developing film is SOOO easy. All you need is a roll film tank, a changing bag or a dark room to load it, a thermometer, some method to time it (your phone will do), 3 or 4 chemicals you can order on line and some film clips. You can probably get everything for about $30 and develop a roll (or more at the same time) in just a few minutes. Then you can scan at your leisure AND use the zone system to the fullest. B&W is so easy - I’ve done it in kitchens, bathrooms and even a closet when I was 12.

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Mar 5, 2024 17:12:17   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
A. T. wrote:
Well first, thanks for responding and the congratulations. I will say that this Hassleblad is one fine piece of equipment.....too beautiful to use, not one scratch or blemish. My original plans were never to develop the film but possibly scan the negatives. So, I began studying film photography and I even began reading Ansel Adams "The Negative" hoping to gather even more information. Only to realize that Ansel Adams success actually came from within his darkroom. So, without any disappointment, I will continue to read "The Negative" because I am fascinated with what that man did in his time with the equipment that was at his disposal. I won't be developing film and I'm still contemplating scanning negatives. I have five of Nikon's flagship DSLRs which will continue to be my go-to cameras; however, I will shoot with my Hasselblad when I'm not admiring it on the camera shelf and totally enjoy just the feel of it in my hands.
Well first, thanks for responding and the congratu... (show quote)


Nowhere mentioned is that you can also shoot color with this camera and scan the negatives or transparencies. Perhaps not cheap, but the results could be awesome.

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Mar 5, 2024 19:21:05   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
A. T. wrote:
Well first, thanks for responding and the congratulations. I will say that this Hassleblad is one fine piece of equipment.....too beautiful to use, not one scratch or blemish. My original plans were never to develop the film but possibly scan the negatives. So, I began studying film photography and I even began reading Ansel Adams "The Negative" hoping to gather even more information. Only to realize that Ansel Adams success actually came from within his darkroom. So, without any disappointment, I will continue to read "The Negative" because I am fascinated with what that man did in his time with the equipment that was at his disposal. I won't be developing film and I'm still contemplating scanning negatives. I have five of Nikon's flagship DSLRs which will continue to be my go-to cameras; however, I will shoot with my Hasselblad when I'm not admiring it on the camera shelf and totally enjoy just the feel of it in my hands.
Well first, thanks for responding and the congratu... (show quote)


Any chance you have a 55 or 60mm micro-Nikkor?

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Mar 6, 2024 10:04:10   #
A. T.
 
TriX wrote:
I’ll just add that developing film is SOOO easy. All you need is a roll film tank, a changing bag or a dark room to load it, a thermometer, some method to time it (your phone will do), 3 or 4 chemicals you can order on line and some film clips. You can probably get everything for about $30 and develop a roll (or more at the same time) in just a few minutes. Then you can scan at your leisure AND use the zone system to the fullest. B&W is so easy - I’ve done it in kitchens, bathrooms and even a closet when I was 12.
I’ll just add that developing film is SOOO easy. A... (show quote)


I really appreciate that info. and others on the forum have attested to that but I would much rather spend the time photographing and enjoying the adventures than developing. Also, we have a very small home and there's really no convenient place to develop film. I started this photography adventure late in life about seven years ago. I'm 67yrs. old and in really good health both physically and mentally. I'm ALWAYS studying this passion to get better. I'm currently learning how to use my sekonic L-858-D meter for film as well as digital photography. I've shot a couple of weddings, sporting events, portraits, baby showers and more......I've come a long way in a short time span but there's so much more to learn. I'm ALWAYS seeking advice and suggestions from people on this wonderful forum and you need to know how much I appreciate you and your suggestions. Thank you again for your help and recommendations.

God Bless,
A. T.

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