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4 X 5 Film Photography
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Feb 23, 2024 07:29:33   #
Artcameraman Loc: Springfield NH
 
I load my 4X5's in the dark then into the tube for development, biff bam thank you ...Stiill have a drying cabinet, heated and filtered. Into Century plastics 4X5 sleeve. Into the "wet" negative holder in my Epson flatbed scanner at the highest RGB setting. Really big files but memory is cheep. No AI here just original and proud of it.

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Feb 24, 2024 09:58:01   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
burkphoto wrote:
Click the All Sections button at the bottom of the page to go to a list of all sections of UHH. YES, there is a section on film photography.

Scanning 4x5 film is probably the best way to use it in 2024. You can order professional drum scans, or do it yourself on an Epson D850 flatbed scanner.

OR, you can backlight your film with a video LED light panel diffused through thick milk Plexiglass or Perspex, and photograph it with a macro lens. If you photograph negatives, you can convert them to positives manually (a royal pain in the ass!), or you can use the Negative Lab Pro plug-in for Lightroom Classic, which is absolutely excellent.

The one thing to consider is knowledge and equipment. For a digital post production workflow, you really need a fast computer, good graphic arts monitor, a calibration kit for the monitor (usually a colorimeter and software or spectrophotometer and software from Datacolor or Calibrite), and a software suite such as the Adobe Photography Plan. If you print your own, you'll want a PHOTO grade printer from Canon or Epson.

As for a changing bag and other darkroom gear, both B&H (https://www.bhphotovideo.com) and Adorama (https://www.Adorama.com) have darkroom specialists who can recommend the best of current offerings.

If you are curious about "camera scanning," Here's my take on it, and a few samples of what it can do with just 35mm film. To scan 4x5, I'd want a full frame digital camera with 60+ MP resolution, and a really good macro lens, although a Lumix G9 II would do quite well in high resolution mode. The samples below were made with a 16MP camera.
Click the b All Sections /b button at the bottom... (show quote)

When I saw the graveyard photograph it looked very familiar. I was there once, reluctantly using it to get from where I managed to park, not an easy feat in the Holy City, to the church to record a Spoleto concert carrying bags of gear and soaking my clothes with sweat. I always wanted to go back to make some photographs. Thanks for sharing that one. It is possible to get locked in or out of some of Charleston's cemeteries depending on timing having found out the hard way.

As for working the OP and working with 4X5 film, I would strongly recommend a blacked out closet or bathroom over a changing bag. Usually the wife has the large closet if you are making a darkroom. I am not sure how to advise in that case.

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Feb 24, 2024 14:57:10   #
MSW
 
add me to the list of 4x5 enthusiasts ... there's just something about large format which still fascinates me after all these years.

(ok - i'll cop to having too much stuff... a studio 4x5 from many years ago with a bunch of cool stuff - extended bellows, bag bellows, etc., a Zone VI which i bid on but didn't expect to win, and my extra cool- guy Chinese carbon fiber field camera)

enjoy the crazy

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Feb 24, 2024 16:46:08   #
topcat Loc: Alameda, CA
 
I really admire your movement into 4X5 film. I think that it is great. If you scan the negatives, you will have the best of both worlds.
I once did 35mm and 2 1/4 B&W. Had a lot of fun.
I can't wait to see what you do.

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Feb 24, 2024 17:13:27   #
MSW
 
so, this scanner business ... can i do this using my printer, or do i need a separate piece of gear?

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Feb 24, 2024 17:59:28   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
MSW wrote:
so, this scanner business ... can i do this using my printer, or do i need a separate piece of gear?


Generally you can't do it with a scanner unless it has a backlight in the lid. Scanners that are designed to do film, and that does include a few all-in-one printer/scanners, have that backlight. No backlight = no film scanning. The Epson V550, V600, V7xx and V8xx scanners do have a backlight. Only the V7xx and V8xx of those can scan 4x5 film. The current V850 will set you back around $1300. A used V750 will set you back a fraction of that, and the quality is virtually the same.

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Feb 24, 2024 18:04:09   #
MrPhotog
 
MSW wrote:
so, this scanner business ... can i do this using my printer, or do i need a separate piece of gear?


You'll probably need a scanner which has a light behind the negative or transparency. Epson haas several models.

Some people use a large, even light source, like an LED panel or a light box; set their film in some holding device on top of this; and use their digital camera on a copy stand to capture the image.

If you are shooting large format paper negatives, however, any scanner--incuding those in multi-function printers--should work fine.

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Feb 24, 2024 19:50:31   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
MrPhotog wrote:
Some people use a large, even light source, like an LED panel or a light box; set their film in some holding device on top of this; and use their digital camera on a copy stand to capture the image.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4x5 negative or transparency can capture much more information than the best full frame cameras. What's the point of bothering with the work and expense of shooting 4x5 if you're going to take a picture of a negative/transparency with a camera? A scanner gives you the option to transfer more information to a digital file, depending on how many dpi you use. The downside is that the more information you capture with a scanner, the larger the files become, even to the point of becoming an inconvenience. I've worked with 4x5 in a wet darkroom, and I stated earlier that large prints made the old fashioned way are superior to what I ever got by scanning. Opinions may differ, of course.

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Feb 24, 2024 23:18:33   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
I am really learning a lot from the responses to my 4X5 inquiry. Thank you all for all the help. If you have more to say, I would love to read it. TANK YOU ALL.

I did purchase a Crown Graphic on eBay that looked great in the photos and the description said it was in mint condition, had all its original parts and worked properly.

What I got, for a premium price, was a camera missing its rear folding focus hood. The batteries were leaking and the top focuser was destroyed by the battery chemicals

I asked the seller to make a price concession because she misrepresented the item. She insisted the price was fair and wouldn't do anything for me. The end result is that I am sending it back for a full refund. I bought another one that I hope is properly represented in its listing.

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Feb 24, 2024 23:25:45   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
therwol wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4x5 negative or transparency can capture much more information than the best full frame cameras. What's the point of bothering with the work and expense of shooting 4x5 if you're going to take a picture of a negative/transparency with a camera? A scanner gives you the option to transfer more information to a digital file, depending on how many dpi you use. The downside is that the more information you capture with a scanner, the larger the files become, even to the point of becoming an inconvenience. I've worked with 4x5 in a wet darkroom, and I stated earlier that large prints made the old fashioned way are superior to what I ever got by scanning. Opinions may differ, of course.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4x5 negative or tra... (show quote)


I am considering whether I buy an Epson V850 or an enlarger and chemicals and trays to use in an interior bathroom. The scanner route seems more workable in my situation. I already have a Canon Pixma 200 printer and a Spyder monitor calibration device.

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Feb 25, 2024 06:20:41   #
Artcameraman Loc: Springfield NH
 
Welcome aboard.

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Feb 25, 2024 12:40:03   #
MrPhotog
 
dbrugger25 wrote:
I am considering whether I buy an Epson V850 or an enlarger and chemicals and trays to use in an interior bathroom. The scanner route seems more workable in my situation. I already have a Canon Pixma 200 printer and a Spyder monitor calibration device.


If your plans are for silver-based prints, get the enlarger. If you want to post your photos online you need some way to digitize them.

With 4x5 negatives a 16x20 print (4x magnification) is going to show the negatives’ quality about as much as a 4x6 print (also 4x magnification) shows off the quality of a 35 mm negative. You can go so much larger, or crop more extensively. But making 8x10s from a 35 mm neg at home is more practical than making 32x40 prints in a converted bathroom.

With digital prints you need an increasingly expensive printer to make the larger prints. With silver-based prints (particularly B&W) you just need larger trays. The printers need to be used regularly so the ink doesn’t dry up and clog the printheads. In 5 to 7 years it is obsolete. The large trays can be used as drysinks on gardening tables. They last forever and are usable in other areas.

You can always get into both systems. In art photography you could use digital media to advertise, but actually sell the larger silver-based images.

Whichever way you go there will be too many opportunities to spend more money 😩

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Feb 25, 2024 12:41:22   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
dbrugger25 wrote:
I am considering whether I buy an Epson V850 or an enlarger and chemicals and trays to use in an interior bathroom. The scanner route seems more workable in my situation. I already have a Canon Pixma 200 printer and a Spyder monitor calibration device.


If you buy the Epson V850, be aware that a wet fluid mount is available for best results when scanning. The down side is that the fluid used is volatile and flammable and needs to be used with adequate ventilation. I never bothered with this, but one could make a case for it. (Someone else in this thread mentioned it.) If you use the standard 4x5 mount, be aware that you have to make sure that it sits where the film is in best focus. This spot is adjusted with some little feet on the bottom of the mount. You only have to experiment once.

It's an awsome scanner for medium and large format film. For 35mm film strips and slides, a dedicated film scanner is a better choice, but results aren't exactly shabby.

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Feb 25, 2024 13:22:33   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
MrPhotog wrote:
If your plans are for silver-based prints, get the enlarger. If you want to post your photos online you need some way to digitize them.

With 4x5 negatives a 16x20 print (4x magnification) is going to show the negatives’ quality about as much as a 4x6 print (also 4x magnification) shows off the quality of a 35 mm negative. You can go so much larger, or crop more extensively. But making 8x10s from a 35 mm neg at home is more practical than making 32x40 prints in a converted bathroom.

With digital prints you need an increasingly expensive printer to make the larger prints. With silver-based prints (particularly B&W) you just need larger trays. The printers need to be used regularly so the ink doesn’t dry up and clog the printheads. In 5 to 7 years it is obsolete. The large trays can be used as drysinks on gardening tables. They last forever and are usable in other areas.

You can always get into both systems. In art photography you could use digital media to advertise, but actually sell the larger silver-based images.

Whichever way you go there will be too many opportunities to spend more money 😩
If your plans are for silver-based prints, get the... (show quote)


Eventually, I will go the improvised darkroom route. To start-off, I will use an Epson V-850. I have the enlarger back for the Crown Graphic and may improvise a horizontal enlarger that can also be tilted upright. My main bathroom is fairly large and has no outside windows. I will just need to lightproof the door.

If this takes-off I will eventually buy a 4 X 5 enlarger but it will need to live in the garage when not in use.

It's funny that I think long-term. I am 79 years old and most in my family die between 83 and 87.

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Feb 25, 2024 15:11:34   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
therwol wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4x5 negative or transparency can capture much more information than the best full frame cameras. What's the point of bothering with the work and expense of shooting 4x5 if you're going to take a picture of a negative/transparency with a camera? A scanner gives you the option to transfer more information to a digital file, depending on how many dpi you use. The downside is that the more information you capture with a scanner, the larger the files become, even to the point of becoming an inconvenience. I've worked with 4x5 in a wet darkroom, and I stated earlier that large prints made the old fashioned way are superior to what I ever got by scanning. Opinions may differ, of course.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4x5 negative or tra... (show quote)


What I've seen from prior discussions is medium format is roughly equal to a 50MP digital. I've seen scans that seem exactly like digital, no grain, extremely fine details. Of course, those examples depend a lot on the photographer, the film resolution, and the scan. Whether someone wants to shoot and share these med-format images in their 50 megapixel (digital) glory is their decision. I'd certainly try to scan the negatives to at least 30MP resolution digital files, if not higher in pixel resolution. Then, of course, the scanned results need digital editing.

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