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Rivian Truck
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Feb 5, 2024 09:16:33   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
xt2 wrote:
Perhaps there may be concern for EV owners regarding the reduced performance & range (35%) of Lithium batteries (and other varieties) when the weather gets really cold. With gas powered vehicles there is no power or range loss due to cold or for that matter hot weather (having to using A/C).


If you run out of petrol on the highway, anyone can bring you a gallon or two and you are on your way again quickly and can fill up for another 400 miles, in about five minutes. With an EV there is no chance of anything like that. Get stuck in traffic on a very cold day for hours, in an EV and you just may not be going home for a very long time. Plus, for an EV, it will involve a tow truck, not just a gallon can of petrol.

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Feb 5, 2024 09:26:45   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
xt2 wrote:
I did as well and like the unit, but not to buy. Far too expensive for what you get. With the $16,000+ battery option you still only get 220-280 miles between charges. OK, one may say, that’s not bad and is relatively close to an ICE pick-up. Well sort of. If you need to tow, want a/c or heat, or if it is bitterly cold as we have been “enjoying” lately, the milage drops 35% or more.

OK, you say, that is fine since I don’t drive very far. But what is it like finding a charging station that functions and does not have a lineup? How does the resale (old battery vehicle) feel when replacement batteries are so very expensive? I wonder just how much damage is done to our precious environment in the both the production and storage or processing of old lithium batteries of that size, or even the damage the EVs do to the highways they travel on due to their weight.

All in all, a lot of questions that for the most part are ignored or side-stepped by government, manufacturers and media. However, the real-world answers are finally coming to light with major companies such as Hertz (car rentals) selling off their EV fleets because customers do not want to rent the EVs and the maintenance costs associated to EVs are far more expensive than fossil-fueled vehicles… Next?
I did as well and like the unit, but not to buy. ... (show quote)


You're forgetting the most important point here with an EV. How is the electricity created that will charge that battery every time? Fossil fuels, that's what is used to make the majority of electricity that charges those EVs. Of course then there are the hours of time needed to charge that battery up to full power, compared to 5 minutes max to fill up a vehicle with Petrol/Gas. Most people never think about these two things.

And then there is this to consider...



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Feb 5, 2024 11:32:36   #
Haenzel Loc: South Holland, The Netherlands
 
Lucian wrote:
You're forgetting the most important point here with an EV. How is the electricity created that will charge that battery every time? Fossil fuels, that's what is used to make the majority of electricity that charges those EVs. Of course then there are the hours of time needed to charge that battery up to full power, compared to 5 minutes max to fill up a vehicle with Petrol/Gas. Most people never think about these two things.

And then there is this to consider...


If you don't want to inform your self (or don't want read the answers already given) you won't find the answers.

This flooded Tesla charging area...Stupid to build it at a location that might be flooded. Just as stupid to build a gas station over there. Ironic side note: what is causing al these floodings..??

The biggest issue in my view is the scale of destruction and pollution all the current wars are causing.
I'm trying to live as green as possible but I'm starting to become a bit desperate and less willing to do my best...

Reply
 
 
Feb 5, 2024 11:47:51   #
mindzye Loc: WV
 
russraman wrote:
I lost over $1,700 in Rivian stock in 2023!


Think about the dealers who have lost $1,700,000.00 in loss due to declining sales.

Reply
Feb 5, 2024 11:48:20   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
bittermelon wrote:
Good looking truck. But don't post your license plate in public.


If you think about it, everyone all around the driver can see the plate number, everywhere he drives.

Reply
Feb 5, 2024 12:00:04   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
Haenzel wrote:
If you don't want to inform your self (or don't want read the answers already given) you won't find the answers.

This flooded Tesla charging area...Stupid to build it at a location that might be flooded. Just as stupid to build a gas station over there. Ironic side note: what is causing al these floodings..??

The biggest issue in my view is the scale of destruction and pollution all the current wars are causing.
I'm trying to live as green as possible but I'm starting to become a bit desperate and less willing to do my best...
If you don't want to inform your self (or don't wa... (show quote)


What answers are you speaking of? It's a fact that most electricity is produced using fossil fuels. Unless you have some info that the rest of us don't know about, maybe. All these charging stations suffer under extreme cold weather, which a gas station does not. There are many news articles that tell us quite often users are stating that up to half of the charging points are often out of service, when they do find one. It's a fact that when an owner finds one, it will be several hours of charging time to get a full or close to it, charge.

Sure, you hear about the fast charge system that can give 60%+ in a short period of time, but that still takes far longer than a petrol/gas fill up. If you look into that fast charge, the manufacturers do not recommend fast charging as a way to do things. That is an emergency measure only, not a standard way to charge. The recommended way is still to charge over many, many hours, to get a full charge. Fast charges will eventually damage the batteries. Or maybe you dispute this too? Our neighbor says, for him, it's about 12 miles per hour, when he charges.

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Feb 5, 2024 12:31:22   #
mindzye Loc: WV
 
If this technology worked I would be all for it. Who doesn't want cleaner environments?

Yet consider the pollution of our land fills - soil, water run offs, etc. -when these non-degradable toxins sit for eons - ok, maybe just a really really long time?

Ever read where the local Fire Dep'ts. can't put out a battery initiated fire? Or when one ignites on the back of a tow truck? Or in a garage, where occupants may be up, or may be asleep?

On the other hand, all problems resolved, they are Fast! Economical? nope, considering the cost of electricity. And the original purchase price. And the cost of repair, and or/ replacement battery costs.

But neither were the 'modified' cars I built and drove in the past. More of a race between the rpm & fuel gauge.

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Feb 5, 2024 13:54:21   #
petercbrandt Loc: New York City, Manhattan
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I was driving behind a Rivian truck yesterday. I had never heard of that brand. It seems very risky to buy a new brand of EV. Even the big-name car makers are having trouble selling their EVs

https://rivian.com/


My next vehicle will be hybrid because EVs are still developing. Sodium batteries may be better, faster charging and more miles. Mercedes is banking on Hydrogen.

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Feb 5, 2024 14:43:46   #
Haenzel Loc: South Holland, The Netherlands
 
Lucian wrote:
What answers are you speaking of? It's a fact that most electricity is produced using fossil fuels. Unless you have some info that the rest of us don't know about, maybe. All these charging stations suffer under extreme cold weather, which a gas station does not. There are many news articles that tell us quite often users are stating that up to half of the charging points are often out of service, when they do find one. It's a fact that when an owner finds one, it will be several hours of charging time to get a full or close to it, charge.

Sure, you hear about the fast charge system that can give 60%+ in a short period of time, but that still takes far longer than a petrol/gas fill up. If you look into that fast charge, the manufacturers do not recommend fast charging as a way to do things. That is an emergency measure only, not a standard way to charge. The recommended way is still to charge over many, many hours, to get a full charge. Fast charges will eventually damage the batteries. Or maybe you dispute this too? Our neighbor says, for him, it's about 12 miles per hour, when he charges.
What answers are you speaking of? It's a fact that... (show quote)



Some answers are in this topic. Yes, electricity is (partly) produced by fossil fuels. It differs from country to country. That for sure needs some work. However, how do you think petrol is being made? From green energy? This is being produced for 100% with fossil fuels. It takes quite some energy to refine crude / oil.

Charging in extreme cold takes longer, especially if the battery hasn't been pre-conditioned. That is the problem that made it to the news.

You will find some charging stations out of order. I've seen some over here in the beginning. Once enough people are using it more often, things will get better.

Yes, charging will take longer than a regular fill. However I never spend time filling my plug-in Hybrid with petrol. I charge at home in the evening and at work in the morning. Time spent: 1 minute total. For an EV even less time is spent unless you have to travel far which requires charging en route. (How often does this happen? For some more than others.)

Fast charging is not a big deal. A proper EV is designed to do that without issue. (Yes batteries wear down eventually) Clever software and cooling are protecting the battery preventing it from turning too hot. Charging is maximized in the beginning of the process and is gradually reduced towards fully charged status.

A modern EV, for example a BMW, can drive another 100 miles after 10 minutes of charging. Tesla 200 miles 15 minutes.

It really depends what trips you make on a regular basis. If you're driving + 400 miles/day, I wouldn't opt for an EV at this moment....

Reply
Feb 6, 2024 02:02:02   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
This a snipit from an article in MotorTrend magazine about how long it takes to charge and EV from a home charger, which will cost you thousands to have fitted to your home. These are the facts about charging. They state...

"How Many Kilowatts Do I Need?
We recommend 9.6 kilowatts for most drivers, which will add about 29 miles per hour of charging for a midsize crossover SUV like the Hyundai Ioniq 5 or approximately 18 miles per hour for the Ford F-150 Lightning. We consider 11.5 kilowatts nice to have and 7.2 kilowatts the minimum, unless you have extenuating circumstances.

Keep in mind that when it comes to charging at home, speed (and hence power) isn't all-important. If your vehicle is regularly parked for eight to 12 hours, you should have no problem waking up to a full charge whenever you want it."

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Feb 6, 2024 02:08:10   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
And this is right off the Tesla Website for real charging times.

Tesla says this...

"Wall Connector
Wall Connector offers the fastest charging speed for your home or office, adding up to 44 miles of range per hour of charge. You can order a Wall Connector online and have it installed by a Tesla Certified Installer.

Mobile Connectors and Adapters
If you don’t want to install a Wall Connector, you can purchase a Mobile Connector and plug into a standard three-prong, 120 volt outlet. A 120 volt outlet will supply 2 to 3 miles of range per hour of charge. If you charge overnight and drive less than 30 to 40 miles per day, this option should meet your typical charging needs.

You can also purchase an adapter bundle and charge with other outlet types, including a 240 volt outlet. Commonly used in homes to power larger appliances, a 240 volt outlet will supply up to 30 miles of range per hour of charge."

Reply
 
 
Feb 6, 2024 08:34:14   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
Haenzel wrote:
Some answers are in this topic. Yes, electricity is (partly) produced by fossil fuels. It differs from country to country. That for sure needs some work. However, how do you think petrol is being made? From green energy? This is being produced for 100% with fossil fuels. It takes quite some energy to refine crude / oil.

Charging in extreme cold takes longer, especially if the battery hasn't been pre-conditioned. That is the problem that made it to the news.

You will find some charging stations out of order. I've seen some over here in the beginning. Once enough people are using it more often, things will get better.

Yes, charging will take longer than a regular fill. However I never spend time filling my plug-in Hybrid with petrol. I charge at home in the evening and at work in the morning. Time spent: 1 minute total. For an EV even less time is spent unless you have to travel far which requires charging en route. (How often does this happen? For some more than others.)

Fast charging is not a big deal. A proper EV is designed to do that without issue. (Yes batteries wear down eventually) Clever software and cooling are protecting the battery preventing it from turning too hot. Charging is maximized in the beginning of the process and is gradually reduced towards fully charged status.

A modern EV, for example a BMW, can drive another 100 miles after 10 minutes of charging. Tesla 200 miles 15 minutes.

It really depends what trips you make on a regular basis. If you're driving + 400 miles/day, I wouldn't opt for an EV at this moment....
Some answers are in this topic. Yes, electricity i... (show quote)


I think it only fair to point out that those short charging times you just stated, of around ten minutes, are only when you find a charging station that offers the Super Charging connection. Not all charging stations offer the Super Charging points, and I don't believe that there are any home charging stations that would offer such a speedy charge.

From what I understand, all home charging stations take hours and hour, basically over night, or as they state on their websites, a 12 hour charge to get a full charge, from a low battery starting point. Even the Super Charging stations can only give you a fast charge up to 80%, after which, the charging really slows down and takes an extended period from that point on, before it can reach a full 100% charge. Takes me only a few minutes to fill my tank up to 100% if it is almost empty.

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Feb 6, 2024 09:04:20   #
Ava'sPapa Loc: Cheshire, Ct.
 
I think there's a reason that electric cars never took off at the beginning of the 20th century. There were too many drawbacks just as there are today.

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Feb 6, 2024 10:00:35   #
Haenzel Loc: South Holland, The Netherlands
 
Lucian wrote:
I think it only fair to point out that those short charging times you just stated, of around ten minutes, are only when you find a charging station that offers the Super Charging connection. Not all charging stations offer the Super Charging points, and I don't believe that there are any home charging stations that would offer such a speedy charge.

From what I understand, all home charging stations take hours and hour, basically over night, or as they state on their websites, a 12 hour charge to get a full charge, from a low battery starting point. Even the Super Charging stations can only give you a fast charge up to 80%, after which, the charging really slows down and takes an extended period from that point on, before it can reach a full 100% charge. Takes me only a few minutes to fill my tank up to 100% if it is almost empty.
I think it only fair to point out that those short... (show quote)


I don't care my car is charging for a couple of hours at home. Power is free thanks to my PV system.
It's a choice...If it doesn't suit you, skip it.

We're producing so much solar and wind power in the Netherlands that on a sunny and windy day during weekends power will be free. It's time this overflow will be used to produce hydrogen in order to store energy.

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Feb 6, 2024 10:14:29   #
Haenzel Loc: South Holland, The Netherlands
 
Ava'sPapa wrote:
I think there's a reason that electric cars never took off at the beginning of the 20th century. There were too many drawbacks just as there are today.


It depends I guess...Over here 31% of all new cars in 2023 was an EV and hybrid cars 37%...
The proper infrasctructure is key though..

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