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Jan 13, 2024 13:49:28   #
gwilliams6
 
1

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Jan 13, 2024 14:28:03   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
Architect1776 wrote:
After seeing the camera global shutter sensor recently introduced the question arises.
Was the global shutter sensor rushed into production just to be first?
It seems to have sacrificed most features people here are adamant as being necessary for decent photos today especially low noise, high DR and great low light performance.

For the greater majority of photographers a global shutter is simply for bragging rights.

bwa

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Jan 13, 2024 15:00:03   #
gwilliams6
 
What Petapixel concluded at end of this Jan. 5th article:

(Quote) "The precise way these pros and cons balance out will depend heavily upon the photographer and what they intend to use the a9 III for. While other similarly priced cameras like the Sony a1 and Nikon Z9 deliver superior all-around performance and better image quality, they can’t match the a9 III’s speed, and they certainly cannot pull off the same special tricks concerning rolling shutter and flash sync. The a9 III can do some things no other can, even if the camera is not the versatile jack-of-all-trades that its $6,000 price tag suggests it might be.

Global shutter sensor technology is in its infancy for full-frame mirrorless camera systems. Sony is the first across the line, and that comes with costs — but ones that many professional photographers will be more than happy to pay." (end quote)

One of the most important thing from my 50 years as a successful professional photojournalist, and one of the things I teach my university Photojournalism students is, that you use the best gear and best techniques to just "get the shot" . Then you can take care of noise and other things in post.

That is what matters most for working pros that make a living with their gear. Any gear that gives you a marked advantage to get that shot is worth it. Global shutter sensor cameras give many photographers real advantages to get that shot, over other non-global shutter sensor cameras.

Only you can decide if any dynamic range and High ISO noise trade-offs matter more to you than getting the shot.

From PetaPixel Jan. 5, 2024:
For Pros, The Sony a9 III’s Speed Will Be Worth the Image Quality Tradeoff

https://petapixel.com/2024/01/05/for-pros-the-sony-a9-iiis-speed-will-be-worth-the-image-quality-tradeoff/

Cheers all.

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Jan 13, 2024 15:37:16   #
gwilliams6
 
bwana wrote:
For the greater majority of photographers a global shutter is simply for bragging rights.

bwa


Folks who dont need one shouldn't buy one, simple. You shouldn't spend hard-earned money for any bragging rights, cameras, cars, houses etc. unless you have loads of money to burn. LOL.

I certainly never have in my 50 years as a pro.

Cheers

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Jan 13, 2024 15:48:26   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
UHHers lets get real here. The ONLY reason architect put up this thread is his anti-Sony, pro-Canon mindset, just a fact. It is his answer to all the threads touting this historical release from Sony, heaven forbid, from Sony first and NOT from Canon. LOL

All the major makers, including Canon, have been in a race to get the first fullframe global sensor shutter hybrid camera to market. Trust me if Canon had been first, you would have seen architect singing its praises far and wide here in UHH, LOL

Global sensor shutter from Sony and others have been around in industrial cameras and some cinema cameras for awhile. The A9III with its global sensor shutter in a fullframe hybird camera is a historic release, no matter the naysayers.

All makers will continue to make BSI, and BSI stacked mirrorless cameras, in addition to having their own global shutter release.

The A9III and global sensor shutters aren't for everyone, but they ARE for many pros and hobbyists alike that will make great use of its exceptional speed with absolutely no rolling shutter in stills and video, and more.

All rolling sensor shutters, including the best of the fast stacked sensors like in the Nikon Z9/Z8, Canon R3, Sony A9/A9II and A1 still are affected by rolling shutter in certain situations with certain fast subjects and fast panning in video and stills.

Only a true global shutter eliminates all rolling shutter, eliminates all banding and flicker issues, and allows flash sync at all shutter speeds, just the facts.

Does everyone need a global shutter camera, of course not. And don't expect all makers to have them in all formats and all price ranges. For now they will be a pricey premium option for pros and hobbyists that can afford them and can use them.

I personally currently have stacked BSI sensor 50mp Sony A1; BSI sensor 61mp A7RV, and 12mp BSI sensor videocentric A7SIII. I shoot all subjects, worldwide . I dont necessarily need a global shutter for landscapes, but yes I could use it for sports ,fast action and fast wildlife, and even for portraits with flash at high sync speeds.

Is there a slight trade-off with dynamic range and high ISO noise at this point in global shutter development, yes. But not so much that I cant get rid of any excess noise in post, and still have plenty of dynamic range for all my professional uses, just a fact.

I know many fellow pros, like myself who have pre-ordered the A9III, and will use its global sensor shutter to great advantage.

Just follow the great A9III global shutter sensor images you will see from the Super Bowl, NCAA Basketball Tourney, Major League Baseball, Grand Slam Tennis, and the Summer Olympics and from top wildlife shooters around the world.

Then make your own decision if this Sony A9III, and global shutter sensor cameras are worthy of the praise they are getting, and not what UHHer architect has to say to try and diss it, and diss anything Sony, LOL.

From PetaPixel Jan. 5, 2024:
For Pros, The Sony a9 III’s Speed Will Be Worth the Image Quality Tradeoff

https://petapixel.com/2024/01/05/for-pros-the-sony-a9-iiis-speed-will-be-worth-the-image-quality-tradeoff/

Cheers and best to you all, whatever brand you prefer.
UHHers lets get real here. The ONLY reason archite... (show quote)


You are so misinformed and silly as you always are.
I do call out truths where they are when others can only lie about things. This keeps people from being misinformed which is rampant here if trying to justify a purchase.
Go back to your usual hating in the attic where you belong.
I was curious the see the pretzels the UHH crowd would bend themselves into trying to justify a poor quality IQ camera just because it has a global shutter that is currently found in thousands of precision industrial and cinema cameras already.
And yes, poor quality as has been defined here hundreds of times by others. Williams is an attic dweller that hates others who disagree with him and drags it into other sections to rtry to get the post removed for his pleasure such as his post here.

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Jan 13, 2024 16:21:51   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
Architect1776 wrote:
I do call out truths where they are when others can only lie about things.

People might take you seriously if you actually substantiated these ridiculous comments you make. How about giving an example of these lies you refer to here?

Or are we seeing yet another example of your pathetic attempt to retain your drama queen status?

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Jan 13, 2024 17:01:28   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Grahame wrote:
People might take you seriously if you actually substantiated these ridiculous comments you make. How about giving an example of these lies you refer to here?

Or are we seeing yet another example of your pathetic attempt to retain your drama queen status?

So you are saying the global shutter sensor is as good or superior to other sensors.
You prove it.
I have proved my point.

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Jan 13, 2024 17:03:02   #
MJPerini
 
@JimH123 has got it right here.
Sony wanted to be first, so they were first, and introduced a specialized camera rather than a general purpose camera.
Some people need that exact feature set, and they are happy.
Personally I have no interest in that camera
But would Love universal flash synch.
A camera with a global shutter that also has low iso , low noise and great DR is another First still waiting to be accomplished.
I’ll look forward to that.
Canon has had patents on global shutters for a while (and I think used one in a cinema camera). But so far no one , including Canon has solved the global shutter With a sensor that equals the best sensors without global shutters.
Here’s the thing, people who need the global shutter speed more than the last bit of image quality will but the camera. If that is not you , it’s ok not to buy the camera. No need to try to trash it. It is what it is. I’m happy Sony is pushing the envelope. Everyone will get there faster because of them.
I’m a Canon shooter.

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Jan 13, 2024 17:13:40   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
Architect1776 wrote:
So you are saying the global shutter sensor is as good or superior to other sensors.
You prove it.
I have proved my point.

You have proved nothing, all you have achieved is demonstrating your pathetic childish behavior.

You are the only pathetic one attempting to make a drama out of the fact that one camera model has something 'different than another' camera. You are attempting to make a case based on what you consider determines the better camera, and as usual fail.

So why have you not mentioned what those "lies" are that you referred to were, rather than attempting to suggest I am giving a view on the Sony performance?

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Jan 13, 2024 18:01:25   #
JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA
 
bwana wrote:
For the greater majority of photographers a global shutter is simply for bragging rights.

bwa


No Brian, the photographers who buy this camera aren't spending $6K for bragging rights. But some photographers are involved in activities where this speed will give them a tremendous edge. And they know as well as everyone else that this is not a general purpose camera. And most, if not all of those photographers, do have other cameras that are more general purpose.

The A9III is a specialized tool, and it can do things more generalized tools can never do. And you can be assured that those who need this tool will know when they need to use this tool.

Maybe someday, the costs for Global Shutter will come down, and hopefully, the weaknesses we see with it now will be ironed out, and some of us hobbyists will have a chance to play too. But that day may yet be a long ways out. Meanwhile, there will be professional photographers using this camera and I do expect to see a major jump in quality of the sports images that I see published, as well as in other fields where speed is everything.

The A9III is a good start for Global Shutter. It only takes a small core of dedicated users to show everyone why this is a good start.

Also, even Sony had previously remarked that they wouldn't release a camera like this until they had improved the known limitations of using Global Shutter. It is not yet clear to us just what they were able to improve, but I am guess we will be finding out the extent of their improvements that managed to get this amazing camera into production. Sony will want to make sure that certain secrets remain secrets since they do not want to help their competitors, but I do expect them to give us some idea of what was overcome.

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Jan 13, 2024 19:57:14   #
Ltgk20 Loc: Salisbury, NC
 
I guess I see Sony's a9iii as several things. First, I believe it is valid that Sony wanted the bragging rights that come with being the first CMOS, full frame, stacked sensor camera. They're a major player in the sensor market and a large player in the camera market and this gets people talking. Next, there are some photographers who will generate additional income with this camera. It will shoot at speeds and in ways that allow things (banding elimination or very high sync speeds) or make things easier than other cameras (high frame rate, etc.). I suspect the number of photographers who need this will be relatively small. Then there will be another group of people who want it, for whatever reason they do, and they can afford it, so they'll buy it and enjoy it, regardless of its limitations.

Truthfully, I think the A1 was very much in this vein as well. When it was released there was nothing like it. It was a tour de force and would do some things no other camera would do at the time. Like the a9iii, there were some who turned the capabilities into profits. However, I suspect there were many more who bought the camera because they wanted it and could afford it. Sony picked up many wildlife and birding photogs because of this camera and I know very few people who make any real money shooting these genres. It doesn't matter though, because people, especially those in wealthier countries, buy lots of stuff they don't need. As a side note, I think Nikon is currently capitalizing best on this with their wildlife and birding lens lineup. I suspect the majority of 400f4.5s, 180-200, 400f2.8TC, 600f2.8TC and 600f6.3 buyers aren't making lots of money with their kit, they're shooting as a hobby.

Finaly, with respect to dynamic range, for years Canon lagged Sony and Nikon. The 5Dmkiii had relatively abysmal dynamic range (1 to 2 stops behind depending on which camera it was compared to). Amazingly enough, though, it sold amazingly well, was used to produce countless photo contest winners and served many photographers very well across all genres. More broadly, there were many years in which Canon's dynamic range was behind (a stop or two, depending on the year and comparison), and they did lose some buyers to Sony or Nikon for this reason, but they still chugged along making cameras which sold and performed quite well; well enough to keep them at the top of the heap from a volume standpoint. For some, the dynamic range of the a9iii will be a deal breaker, but for many uses, it will likely not make much difference.

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Jan 13, 2024 21:09:20   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Ltgk20 wrote:
I guess I see Sony's a9iii as several things. First, I believe it is valid that Sony wanted the bragging rights that come with being the first CMOS, full frame, stacked sensor camera. They're a major player in the sensor market and a large player in the camera market and this gets people talking. Next, there are some photographers who will generate additional income with this camera. It will shoot at speeds and in ways that allow things (banding elimination or very high sync speeds) or make things easier than other cameras (high frame rate, etc.). I suspect the number of photographers who need this will be relatively small. Then there will be another group of people who want it, for whatever reason they do, and they can afford it, so they'll buy it and enjoy it, regardless of its limitations.

Truthfully, I think the A1 was very much in this vein as well. When it was released there was nothing like it. It was a tour de force and would do some things no other camera would do at the time. Like the a9iii, there were some who turned the capabilities into profits. However, I suspect there were many more who bought the camera because they wanted it and could afford it. Sony picked up many wildlife and birding photogs because of this camera and I know very few people who make any real money shooting these genres. It doesn't matter though, because people, especially those in wealthier countries, buy lots of stuff they don't need. As a side note, I think Nikon is currently capitalizing best on this with their wildlife and birding lens lineup. I suspect the majority of 400f4.5s, 180-200, 400f2.8TC, 600f2.8TC and 600f6.3 buyers aren't making lots of money with their kit, they're shooting as a hobby.

Finaly, with respect to dynamic range, for years Canon lagged Sony and Nikon. The 5Dmkiii had relatively abysmal dynamic range (1 to 2 stops behind depending on which camera it was compared to). Amazingly enough, though, it sold amazingly well, was used to produce countless photo contest winners and served many photographers very well across all genres. More broadly, there were many years in which Canon's dynamic range was behind (a stop or two, depending on the year and comparison), and they did lose some buyers to Sony or Nikon for this reason, but they still chugged along making cameras which sold and performed quite well; well enough to keep them at the top of the heap from a volume standpoint. For some, the dynamic range of the a9iii will be a deal breaker, but for many uses, it will likely not make much difference.
I guess I see Sony's a9iii as several things. Fir... (show quote)


Good post.
Remember though that the R5 DR outperforms the Z9, Z7 and a1.
You are correct in the other points except that UHH is a DR die on the cross group of pixel peepers.

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Jan 14, 2024 00:17:25   #
gwilliams6
 
Not only is the global shutter in the A9III superb for stills, it is also great for no rolling shutter in video.

Here just posted 15 hours ago from Jeven Dovey, a top pro with over 1.02million youtube subscribers, as he took the A9III to Alaska and put it through its video paces in real-world use, even in very high ISO shooting in low light. And notice no rolling shutter in those moving helicopter blades scenes.

If you are here for reality and not just for some fanboy's rants against anything that isn't Canon, then watch this and enjoy .

We all know what architect is about, and he really cant stand any doses of reality in his Canon-only world. We will continue to allow the facts to speak for themselves in spite of architect.

Jeven Dovey: "The Sony A9III is a Powerful Video Camera"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otdscHoD9Eo

Cheers and best to you.

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Jan 15, 2024 00:40:57   #
gwilliams6
 
Some Full Resolution A9III global shutter sensor photos;

Fell free to click to zoom in on the photos.

Mark Galer:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/markgaler/albums/72177720314048922/with/53464335209

Cheers

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Jan 15, 2024 08:10:39   #
brentrh Loc: Deltona, FL
 
Looking back at cameras they didn’t have light meters in them, new cameras with built in light meters, new SLR with changeable lenses, then motors to advance film in the camera, then improvements to shutter began. Digital age brought end to SRL’s mirrorless cameras are replacing them now as time passes leading camera manufacturers will abandon production of SLR’s. The global shutter has been around for years not ready for still photography, will eventually be the standard shutter in future. With a photographer’s eye, a good lens that camera with no meter will take excellent photographs. A new car today drives so much better than one from 60’s but both get you from A to B. Just like cameras have done when they freeze a moment in time. With all the improvements to cameras they still just freeze that moment in time and nothing more. So global shutter will be the new standard shutter and this advance will pass unnoticed by the new photographers.

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