Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
The Attic
Election interference at it's most blatant.
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
Dec 12, 2023 11:42:47   #
National Park
 
FrumCA wrote:
I was questioning NP's logic in evidently supporting Smith's desire to do an end run around the appeals court. The wheels of justice move slowly from time to time but why not let the process run its course?


Smith's motions to move the trial forward are part of the "wheels of justice," just at Trump's motions to delay are part of the wheels of justice. It's all part of the "process running its course." The process includes motions from from the prosecution that are beneficial to the prosecution as well as motions from the defense that are beneficial to the defense. Why would Smith want to move the trial forward? There may be many reasons that have nothing to do with the coming election. Perhaps some of his key witnesses have life-threatening illnesses. Witnesses can also suddenly die without warning. Or perhaps key members of his prosecution team have given notice that they will be leaving his office at the end of the year. Or he wants to prosecute the case while the evidence is fresh in his mind. And testimony becomes less accurate with the passage of time--three years have already passed since the crimes alleged against Trump have occurred.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 13:27:20   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
National Park wrote:
Smith's motions to move the trial forward are part of the "wheels of justice," just at Trump's motions to delay are part of the wheels of justice. It's all part of the "process running its course." The process includes motions from from the prosecution that are beneficial to the prosecution as well as motions from the defense that are beneficial to the defense. Why would Smith want to move the trial forward? There may be many reasons that have nothing to do with the coming election. Perhaps some of his key witnesses have life-threatening illnesses. Witnesses can also suddenly die without warning. Or perhaps key members of his prosecution team have given notice that they will be leaving his office at the end of the year. Or he wants to prosecute the case while the evidence is fresh in his mind. And testimony becomes less accurate with the passage of time--three years have already passed since the crimes alleged against Trump have occurred.
Smith's motions to move the trial forward are part... (show quote)


It is true that either side can leverage their position with pretrial motions but the reasons cited like a witness may die can be handles by deposition if granted by the court and properly noticing the other side (since the accused has the right to confront and cross examine their accusers). In the deposition the deposed would have to produce any documents or other physical evidence ( these can be exceptions to the hearsay rule). The prosecutor has volumes where his case is put together in the order he will present it so his memory waning would probable not be good cause. In a case like this if the issues are complex and discovery isn’t complete or their are constitutional issues tied to a motion I would think to avoid further appeals, if the defendant waives his right to a speedy trial, the court should err on the side of the defendant. Of course, I am not an attorney and if I am way off base Bazo will let me know.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 13:46:28   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
Just me .. I think the America voters deserve to know if he is guilty or not before they cast their ballot,

Reply
 
 
Dec 12, 2023 13:59:16   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
DennyT wrote:
Just me .. I think the America voters deserve to know if he is guilty or not before they cast their ballot,


Just me or isn’t it baked in. A pre election decision may sway some but most on either side seem to have made their decision before a scintilla of evidence has been presented.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 14:40:37   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
National Park wrote:
Given the evidence against Trump, wouldn't NOT prosecuting him in a timely fashion constitute election interference? If criminal charges were now pending against Joe Biden, wouldn't Trump and his supporters now be screaming that NOT prosecuting Biden before the election would constitute election interference?

Running for office does not, nor should it, suspend criminal justice. We are a nation of laws, and no one, not a sitting or former President, is above them. (The same Trump supporters arguing now that the trial should not occur before the election were the same people who chanted "lock her up" eight years ago, even though Clinton had never even been indicted for anything.)

Since Trump supporters believe Trump is innocent and the charges are a political witch hunt, they should want the trial to quickly occur so that a jury will have rendered a not guilty verdict in advance of the election, removing the criminal cloud hanging over Trump. Why aren't they eager for the world to see how flimsy they believe the Special Counsel's evidence is? Wouldn't an "innocent" verdict propel Trump to the Presidency?

Perhaps the real reason Trump supporters don't want the trial before the election is what they know deep in their hearts to be true ...
Given the evidence against Trump, wouldn't NOT pro... (show quote)


It seems you have access to all the evidence against Trump, If so please enlighten me and remember not to use Biased Journalism as it has been proven wrong many times in the past, Crossfire Hurricane is one example.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 14:56:11   #
National Park
 
letmedance wrote:
It seems you have access to all the evidence against Trump, If so please enlighten me and remember not to use Biased Journalism as it has been proven wrong many times in the past, Crossfire Hurricane is one example.


You would like me to use unbiased NewsMax as a source, I assume.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 15:16:54   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
FrumCA wrote:
I was questioning NP's logic in evidently supporting Smith's desire to do an end run around the appeals court. The wheels of justice move slowly from time to time but why not let the process run its course?


There are special provisions that specifically allow this in these situations, but in the end we disagree and there will probably be much more important issues for us to fight about than this. There is no argument I could make that would change your mind. To insult you or remark about your motives or comment on your intelligence would all be out of line. Disagreeing with me doesn't call for any of them. You are not required to agree with me, and all it really says about you is that you don't agree with me. I shouldn't have to explain all that, and I'm sure that you didn't require it, but I wanted to separate myself from how things so often go on this site. I really do have many questions I'd like to ask you, bet we're not going to resolve them here. I think it's unfortunate that people stake out territory and no amount of facts will sway them, but we probably all do that. I feel you are very biased, but most likely when you look my direction, you feel the same about me, so you and I simply can't resolve this.

Reply
 
 
Dec 12, 2023 15:21:32   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
thom w wrote:
There are special provisions that specifically allow this in these situations, but in the end we disagree and there will probably be much more important issues for us to fight about than this. There is no argument I could make that would change your mind. To insult you or remark about your motives or comment on your intelligence would all be out of line. Disagreeing with me doesn't call for any of them. You are not required to agree with me, and all it really says about you is that you don't agree with me. I shouldn't have to explain all that, and I'm sure that you didn't require it, but I wanted to separate myself from how things so often go on this site. I really do have many questions I'd like to ask you, bet we're not going to resolve them here. I think it's unfortunate that people stake out territory and no amount of facts will sway them, but we probably all do that. I feel you are very biased, but most likely when you look my direction, you feel the same about me, so you and I simply can't resolve this.
There are special provisions that specifically all... (show quote)


What you say may be true and if it is then other than venting and trolling this site is a waste of time isn’t it. Unfortunately, that thinking seems to be pervasive in the press, populace and into the furthest reaches of our government. Gridlock and impasse anyone?

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 15:25:42   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
Effate wrote:
It is true that either side can leverage their position with pretrial motions but the reasons cited like a witness may die can be handles by deposition if granted by the court and properly noticing the other side (since the accused has the right to confront and cross examine their accusers). In the deposition the deposed would have to produce any documents or other physical evidence ( these can be exceptions to the hearsay rule). The prosecutor has volumes where his case is put together in the order he will present it so his memory waning would probable not be good cause. In a case like this if the issues are complex and discovery isn’t complete or their are constitutional issues tied to a motion I would think to avoid further appeals, if the defendant waives his right to a speedy trial, the court should err on the side of the defendant. Of course, I am not an attorney and if I am way off base Bazo will let me know.
It is true that either side can leverage their pos... (show quote)


No one is taking any of Trumps rights by taking it to SCOTUS. There isn't a chance in hell that the final decision wasn't going to be theirs. No matter what the appeals court were to decide, it was going to go to SCOTUS. The delay that this would give trump is not a right or something that is being taken away from him. If there are legitimate reasons that Trump should be given more time, they can be considered, but the delay that the appeals court would have added is not amongst his rights. If he needs more time to prepare, and has a right to it, he needs to make that case.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 15:26:39   #
FrumCA
 
thom w wrote:
There are special provisions that specifically allow this in these situations, but in the end we disagree and there will probably be much more important issues for us to fight about than this. There is no argument I could make that would change your mind. To insult you or remark about your motives or comment on your intelligence would all be out of line. Disagreeing with me doesn't call for any of them. You are not required to agree with me, and all it really says about you is that you don't agree with me. I shouldn't have to explain all that, and I'm sure that you didn't require it, but I wanted to separate myself from how things so often go on this site. I really do have many questions I'd like to ask you, bet we're not going to resolve them here. I think it's unfortunate that people stake out territory and no amount of facts will sway them, but we probably all do that. I feel you are very biased, but most likely when you look my direction, you feel the same about me, so you and I simply can't resolve this.
There are special provisions that specifically all... (show quote)

You are correct. You and I disagree on many things. I think it mostly has to do with your liberal bias and my conservative bias. No amount of "facts" will sway the territory we've staked out. The source of the "facts" tends to set the basis of the argument/discussion.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 15:30:36   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
Effate wrote:
What you say may be true and if it is then other than venting and trolling this site is a waste of time isn’t it. Unfortunately, that thinking seems to be pervasive in the press, populace and into the furthest reaches of our government. Gridlock and impasse anyone?


I'm sorry, this isn't on you, but I wasn't really able to follow the point you were trying to make. I guess you can try again, or you can decide that I'm just too dumb for it to be worth your time. Either way, it's your choice. I seem to be getting way more wordy than is called for so I may pause and regroup anyway.

Reply
 
 
Dec 12, 2023 15:31:09   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
thom w wrote:
No one is taking any of Trumps rights by taking it to SCOTUS. There isn't a chance in hell that the final decision wasn't going to be theirs. No matter what the appeals court were to decide, it was going to go to SCOTUS. The delay that this would give trump is not a right or something that is being taken away from him. If there are legitimate reasons that Trump should be given more time, they can be considered, but the delay that the appeals court would have added is not amongst his rights. If he needs more time to prepare, and has a right to it, he needs to make that case.
No one is taking any of Trumps rights by taking it... (show quote)


Don’t disagree and didn’t say that.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 15:37:23   #
rwoodvira
 
letmedance wrote:
It seems you have access to all the evidence against Trump, If so please enlighten me and remember not to use Biased Journalism as it has been proven wrong many times in the past, Crossfire Hurricane is one example.


NY Trial - 2 sets of books, testimony & conviction of CFO, exaggeration of values, property description.

Jan. 6 - video tape of Trump's speeches, inaction in securing National Guard, testimony of Jan. 6 participants

Georgia - testimony of officials, two of his co-defendants, asking to find votes for him after they were counted 3 times.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."

Trump's as cooked as a Christmas goose, unless his buddies on the Supreme Court say nay-nay.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 16:02:56   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
Former prosecutor Andy Mc Carthy (disclosure, he is a Fox contributor) just made the legal point (which is true) that as some have argued that it would be in the public’s interest to have these cases resolved before the election but that should not and will not be a consideration for any higher court. What the public’s interest may be can never supersede (trump) the interests of any defendant’s constitutional right to due process.

Reply
Dec 12, 2023 16:14:34   #
National Park
 
Effate wrote:
Former prosecutor Andy Mc Carthy (disclosure, he is a Fox contributor) just made the legal point (which is true) that as some have argued that it would be in the public’s interest to have these cases resolved before the election but that should not and will not be a consideration for any higher court. What the public’s interest may be can never supersede (trump) the interests of any defendant’s constitutional right to due process.


I don't disagree, although I would add that the public interest in having the cases resolved before the election should not and will not be a consideration for the trial court. I would also suggest that Trump's attorneys will likely file every motion in the book to try to delay the cases from going to trial until after the election. I would think that they especially don't want the confidential documents going to trial before the election, as it seems to be the case that has the most merit and would be the easiest for the Special Prosecutor to prosecute.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
The Attic
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.