Yes, Let's hope there is a cease fire between Israel and hamas (Page 2): We Christians don't always succeed in living up to our ideals. Love and forgiveness. The current regime in...

srg

CrazyJane wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we all God's children?

While not a popular position in the hallowed halls of the Attic these days, I'll nevertheless offer the view that slaughtering civilians is a horrific crime regardless of whose hand strikes the blow. Hamas's attack was a horror, surely, but nine thousand dead civilians (two-thirds of them women and children) is equally so.

We Christians don't always succeed in living up to our ideals. Love and forgiveness.
The current regime in Israel is a big believer in revenge.
Unfortunately revenge turns out to be a never ending cycle. I myself might lean toward revenge. It is a drastic situation that has the potential to have grave consequences for us also.

btbg

thom w wrote:

Israel told them to go south, and killed those who went there. I don't claim to be an expert on warfare but I wouldn't imagine that most of the civilians are in the tunnels, or that surface warfare is going to affect those in the tunnels to a great extent. If I'm wrong then I am, but it hasn't been explained to me.

Israel has already started clearing tunnels. You can't do that with a group of special ops. As large as the tunnel system is its going to be bloody and its going to take a lot of manpower.

As far as the claim that Israel killed those who moved south that came from Hamas. You already know they lied about the hospital bombing that was actually one of their rockets that misfires. Why would you believe their claims that Israel is committing atrocities.

All of the news for years would indicate that Hamas sets up their weapons and munitions storage in civilian areas. What do you suggest Israel do. There is going to be civilian casualties.

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

btbg wrote:

Israel has already started clearing tunnels. You c... (show quote)

Here from an Israeli newspaper:

Haaretz.com, the online English edition of Haaretz Newspaper in Israel, gives you breaking news, analyses and opinions about Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World.
© Haaretz Daily Newspaper Ltd. All Rights Reserved

Israel News, Thursday, 02.11.2023

Israel’s war against Hamas has entered its twenty-seventh day, three weeks after Hamas killed at least 1,300 Israelis and wounded more than 3,300 in a merciless assault. In the Gaza Strip, the Hamas-controlled health ministry reports that more than 9,000 Palestinians have been killed. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are holding hostage more than 242 soldiers and civilians, including foreign nationals.

Israel has moved past “the gates of Gaza City,” according to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and fierce fighting has been reported on the ground by both Palestinians and the IDF. Hamas and Hezbollah rocket fire at Israel and Israeli airstrikes on Gaza continue. As calls for a ceasefire or humanitarian pause in Gaza grow louder, Israel’s military chief promised fuel would be allowed into the Strip if hospitals run out.

Israel’s Abraham Accords ally Bahrain has recalled its ambassador and froze economic ties.

Here’s what you need to know 27 days into the war.

What happened today

■ As Israel keeps a tight lid on the location of its ground forces in Gaza, Prime Minister Netanyahu said the military was “already more than at the gates of Gaza City.” IDF Chief of Staff Halevi said that Israel is operating with less than half of the air force's strength in Gaza, and is ready to attack other fronts if necessary.

■ After Jordan recalled its Israeli envoy on Wednesday, Bahrain's parliament announced the recall of its ambassador and the freezing of economic ties. This marks the first time an Abraham Accords state has halted relations with Israel.

■ According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, U.S. officials believe that the Wagner paramilitary group, who has played a key role in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, may provide an anti-aircraft system to Hezbollah as a second front looms on the Israel-Lebanon border.

■ As Hezbollah steps up its social media blitz ahead of Hassan Nasrallah’s speech Friday, an Iranian militia arrived in southern Lebanon and is assisting Hezbollah, according to the IDF.

■ The police have so far identified 828 of the civilians murdered by Hamas on October 7. 331 IDF soldiers have been killed since the beginning of the war, 19 of them since the ground incursion started over the weekend.

■ Hamas rocket barrages targeted northern and southern Israel throughout the day. In northern Israel, a direct rocket hit caused a large fire.

■ The Health Ministry in Hamas-ruled Gaza reported that more than 9,000 Palestinians have been killed since war broke out.

■ The IDF chief said that Israel will allow the supervised transfer of fuel into the Strip when it runs out in Gaza hospitals. UNRWA said the Turkish-Palestinian Friendship hospital in Gaza City reportedly ran out of fuel and was forced to stop most of its activities, rendering 70 cancer patients at serious risk.

■ The humanitarian situation in Gaza was the subject of talks between the U.S. Secretary of State Blinken and the Saudi defense minister, and U.S. Vice President Harris and the UN Secretary General.

■ Dozens of masked settlers set fire to shops in the Palestinian village of Deir Sharaf in the West Bank on Thursday; two were arrested. Elhanan Klein, from the settlement of Einav, was shot dead by Palestinians Thursday morning while driving home from reserve duty.

■ Israeli forces said they arrested 21 Hamas members in the West Bank on Thursday overnight. The Palestinian Health Ministry reported that two Palestinian were killed and four others were seriously wounded by IDF fire in the West Bank. A 14-year-old Palestinian reportedly shot by the IDF in Nablus on Monday died of his wounds.

Context

Israel has declared war with Hamas after ten months of the most significant domestic political and social crisis in decades, due to the Netanyahu-led government's judicial coup – legislation aimed at dramatically weakening Israel's judiciary and potentially rescuing Netanyahu from the three corruption trials he faces.

The war comes amid an escalation of violence between West Bank Palestinians and Israeli settlers, the latter empowered by Israel’s most right-wing government ever.

Israel News, Thursday, 02.11.2023

View in browser

Israel’s war against Hamas has entered its twenty-seventh day, three weeks after Hamas killed at least 1,300 Israelis and wounded more than 3,300 in a merciless assault. In the Gaza Strip, the Hamas-controlled health ministry reports that more than 9,000 Palestinians have been killed. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are holding hostage more than 242 soldiers and civilians, including foreign nationals.

Israel has moved past “the gates of Gaza City,” according to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and fierce fighting has been reported on the ground by both Palestinians and the IDF. Hamas and Hezbollah rocket fire at Israel and Israeli airstrikes on Gaza continue. As calls for a ceasefire or humanitarian pause in Gaza grow louder, Israel’s military chief promised fuel would be allowed into the Strip if hospitals run out.

Israel’s Abraham Accords ally Bahrain has recalled its ambassador and froze economic ties.

Here’s what you need to know 27 days into the war.

What happened today

■ As Israel keeps a tight lid on the location of its ground forces in Gaza, Prime Minister Netanyahu said the military was “already more than at the gates of Gaza City.” IDF Chief of Staff Halevi said that Israel is operating with less than half of the air force's strength in Gaza, and is ready to attack other fronts if necessary.

■ After Jordan recalled its Israeli envoy on Wednesday, Bahrain's parliament announced the recall of its ambassador and the freezing of economic ties. This marks the first time an Abraham Accords state has halted relations with Israel.

■ According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, U.S. officials believe that the Wagner paramilitary group, who has played a key role in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, may provide an anti-aircraft system to Hezbollah as a second front looms on the Israel-Lebanon border.

■ As Hezbollah steps up its social media blitz ahead of Hassan Nasrallah’s speech Friday, an Iranian militia arrived in southern Lebanon and is assisting Hezbollah, according to the IDF.

■ The police have so far identified 828 of the civilians murdered by Hamas on October 7. 331 IDF soldiers have been killed since the beginning of the war, 19 of them since the ground incursion started over the weekend.

■ Hamas rocket barrages targeted northern and southern Israel throughout the day. In northern Israel, a direct rocket hit caused a large fire.

■ The Health Ministry in Hamas-ruled Gaza reported that more than 9,000 Palestinians have been killed since war broke out.

■ The IDF chief said that Israel will allow the supervised transfer of fuel into the Strip when it runs out in Gaza hospitals. UNRWA said the Turkish-Palestinian Friendship hospital in Gaza City reportedly ran out of fuel and was forced to stop most of its activities, rendering 70 cancer patients at serious risk.

■ The humanitarian situation in Gaza was the subject of talks between the U.S. Secretary of State Blinken and the Saudi defense minister, and U.S. Vice President Harris and the UN Secretary General.

■ Dozens of masked settlers set fire to shops in the Palestinian village of Deir Sharaf in the West Bank on Thursday; two were arrested. Elhanan Klein, from the settlement of Einav, was shot dead by Palestinians Thursday morning while driving home from reserve duty.

■ Israeli forces said they arrested 21 Hamas members in the West Bank on Thursday overnight. The Palestinian Health Ministry reported that two Palestinian were killed and four others were seriously wounded by IDF fire in the West Bank. A 14-year-old Palestinian reportedly shot by the IDF in Nablus on Monday died of his wounds.

Context

Israel has declared war with Hamas after ten months of the most significant domestic political and social crisis in decades, due to the Netanyahu-led government's judicial coup – legislation aimed at dramatically weakening Israel's judiciary and potentially rescuing Netanyahu from the three corruption trials he faces.

The war comes amid an escalation of violence between West Bank Palestinians and Israeli settlers, the latter empowered by Israel’s most right-wing government ever.ternational Intervention in Gaza Could Be First Step Toward Palestinian State

Ahmed Wanted Israelis to Listen to Gazans. Then 23 of His Family Members Were Killed

Bitter Lessons of Past Wars Inform Fighting in Israel-Hamas War

Interactive Map Depicts Scale of Hamas Atrocities in Gaza Border Communities

Between a Torpedo and a Submarine: Hamas Reveals Unmanned Attack Weapon

Missile From Yemen to Israel: Unprecedented Launch, Unprecedented Interception

Israel's Army to Recruit Settlers With No Army Experience to Guard West Bank Settlements

As Anger Grows, Families of Gaza Hostages Vow Not to Give Israeli Gov't 'Endless Credit'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haaretz

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news

btbg

thom w wrote:

Here from an Israeli newspaper: br br Haaretz.co... (show quote)

You post all of this yet are saying Israel is making a mistake. According to what you posted they have Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, Yemen, the Wagner group and God only knows who else lined up against them and the total of Palastinian dead is coming from Hamas who has sworn to remove Israel from the face of the earth.

Israel is not the bad guys here.

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

btbg wrote:

You post all of this yet are saying Israel is making a mistake. According to what you posted they have Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, Yemen, the Wagner group and God only knows who else lined up against them and the total of Palastinian dead is coming from Hamas who has sworn to remove Israel from the face of the earth.

Israel is not the bad guys here.

You are having trouble differentiating cause from effect. I have to believe you just skimmed the article. Of course they didn't say Hamas was blameless, they weren't. They did say that what Israel is doing is bringing all these entities against them. Whatever Hamas has done in the past and may want to do in the future, the Palestinian people are not dogs to be killed if they are inconvenient. If they kill all of Hamas using the methods they are using they will have caused so much hate that something worse than Hamas will replace it. Forget right and wrong, which I believe you already have, what they are doing will not work and all of the innocents they kill will have been killed for nothing. And I don't give a damn about your book of Revelations, All Revelations proves is that there are psychedelic Fungi on the isle of patmos. I've read it at least a couple of times and they must have been damn good.
I'm not equating you with Rac, but trying to discuss this with you is about as productive as discussing any thing with him. Whether you take that as a compliment or an insult is up to you..

btbg

thom w wrote:

You are having trouble differentiating cause from ... (show quote)

They didn't say that what Israel is doing is bringing all those people against them, you are reading that into it.

You also have to keep in mind that right now there are a lot of Jews in both Israel and the U.S. who seem to believe that if you just be nice people will be nice back. That is simply not true. Hamas charter is devoted to removing Israel from the face of the earth.

There is no way to negotiate with someone who believes that way and 80 percent of the Palastinians voted for Hamas.

I mean seriously do you think that if Israel would remove their blockade things would be better? The whole reason their is a blockade is because they were bringing in arms and munitions to try to kill Jews.

So since the blockade was effective they dug tunnels to bring the weapons in.

Remember Hamas says they got approval from Iran. Hezbollah says the same thing so to try to claim that it is Israel's fault that now they are being attacked on multiple fronts is ridiculous. Hamas said that would happen the day after their attack.

You need to quit blaming the victims for the problem. Try going back and looking at the Palastinian ties to Hitler and the Nazis and learn what has really been going on in the middle east since wwII.

Educate yourself.

Shutterbugsailer Loc: Staten Island NY (AKA Cincinnati by the Sea)

CrazyJane wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we all God's children?

While not a popular position in the hallowed halls of the Attic these days, I'll nevertheless offer the view that slaughtering civilians is a horrific crime regardless of whose hand strikes the blow. Hamas's attack was a horror, surely, but nine thousand dead civilians (two-thirds of them women and children) is equally so.

L
Know Iran, no peace. No Iran, know peace

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

CrazyJane wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we all God's children?

While not a popular position in the hallowed halls of the Attic these days, I'll nevertheless offer the view that slaughtering civilians is a horrific crime regardless of whose hand strikes the blow. Hamas's attack was a horror, surely, but nine thousand dead civilians (two-thirds of them women and children) is equally so.

Without the destruction of Hamas it will never end, Israel waited days to give time for the civilians to evacuate. War is horrific, it is a shame that so few can exert such power as to instigate an event such as this.... But Israel must finish this.

btbg

Blurryeyed wrote:

Without the destruction of Hamas it will never end, Israel waited days to give time for the civilians to evacuate. War is horrific, it is a shame that so few can exert such power as to instigate an event such as this.... But Israel must finish this.

I agree with you but the idiots in the Biden ainistration are already trying to force a ceasefire and if you look at just the opinions on this forum world public opinion may soon turn against Israel totally isolating them.

DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods

thom w wrote:

That was 80 years ago. Hopefully we've become a bi... (show quote)

hasn’t America learned over the past 60 years ideology can never ever be defeated with bullets and bombs

lbrande

In 2005 Israel left Gaza in exchange for peace. Plus, Israel and other countries, US included, have been sending aid and millions each years to help Palestinians. What have they done with all that money and aid they’ve received the last 18 years? They elected Hamas, a known terrorist group, to control the aid and funds, and govern them. Hamas has neglecting the people, keeping them in poverty, and use the funds for their mission, to kill all Jews and destroy Israel. The supplies for infrastructure was used to build tunnels, the food and water, supplies weapons, ammo and what’re else Hamas needed to carry out their “purpose in life”. Putting terrorists in charge is never good.

That promise of peace in exchange for Gaza has never been kept. Israel has dealt with missile attacks throughout these 18 years. And now the Palestinians are blaming Israel for what they have brought on themselves. There isn’t a country near them that will let them in, that says a lot about Palestinians. Many are also terrorists.

They’ve been given Gaza along with $ millions each year for 18 years and now they want Israel. I don’t think so.

Innocent people will die on both sides, this is what happens in war. Israel has done all they can to prevent casualties. But Palestinians continue to blame Israel for the deaths. If Palestinians cared about themselves, their families and were as innocent as they claim, they would not be in this situation. In fact, Israel wouldn’t be in this situation.

Israel is not wanting to take their land. Israel is defending itself. Remember, Hamas attacked Israel first, killing thousands. Israel has a right to defend themselves. They know that at this point, this will not end unless they take out Hamas. And they’re right. Hamas has been planning for this all their life. Hamas wants to kill every Jew and destroy Israel to please their god. They have proudly admitted it. They need to be taken out.

SteveS Loc: The US is my home.

btbg wrote:

You've got an estimated 500 miles of tunnels under... (show quote)

Gaza isn't that far from the Mediterranean, fill those tunnels with seawater, no special ops have to go down there. Hama's either comes out or drowns.

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

btbg wrote:

They didn't say that what Israel is doing is bring... (show quote)

There are international Rules of war, and both sides are violating them in major ways.

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

Blurryeyed wrote:

Without the destruction of Hamas it will never end, Israel waited days to give time for the civilians to evacuate. War is horrific, it is a shame that so few can exert such power as to instigate an event such as this.... But Israel must finish this.

If Israel continues their genocide they will never have peace. irregardless of who is right or wrong, it's a fact. Israel can probably pretty much wipe out the palestinian people. They will not wipe out Hamas through armed warfare. Should armed warfare be part of what Israel does? Probably so, but not in the way they are doing it. What they are doing is counter productive to accomplishing their stated goal.

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

DennyT wrote:

hasn’t America learned over the past 60 years ideology can never ever be defeated with bullets and bombs

You look at what is happening and tell me. When Hamas first attacked Israel, most of the Arabic world was on Israel's side, in spite of what Israel has been doing. That is no longer true.