Thoiughts on NEWTOWN tragedy
Dec 17, 2012 09:23:15 #
Events like this makes me rethink. Some points.
The news is saying that the shooters mother was convinced the world was in peril. For a young 20 year old mind that may cause issues.
I believe that although the framers of the constitution wanted an armed population to protect he citizens against unjust laws; they never thought that simi-auto weapons would exist or that the oppressive government would out gun an army of citizens. Thus this law may not longer have any meaning.
When shooting paper at the shooting range rapid-fire contests are fun and to do well takes skill. Strange as it seems some hollow point rounds produce a tighter group than non-hollow point. If the hollow points are outlawed then everyone has the same handicap.
Would the anti-gun people ban hunting? For deer hunting and other large game a hollow point is more likely to kill quickly. The deer overrun much of the United States. Using cars and motorcycles to cull the deer population is expensive. I raise chickens and ducks and sometimes use a handgun to shoot racoons and other animals that attact my live stock. An auto loading weapon is handy; although i rarely need a second shoot.
Although a total ban on private ownership of firearms will likely prevent events like this from occurring; how would the weapons be collected. If large capacity magazines of 11 rounds and more are outlawed should the owner be compensated for the lost of property? Should owners of banned assault weapons be compensated for lost of property?
Much of gang violence is committed with firearms. Is the problem the firearms or the social and family issues that cause children to join gangs?
Does anyone think that a total ban on private ownership of firearms will take the weapons from the thieves and gangs? How long would it take to ride the country of firearms?
How can a nation that has state sponsored killing of thousands of un born children every year, murder and shooting on television think that we are not adversely affecting the thought process of our youth? We have millions of people who think that they are entitled to that to which they have not worked for and that they deserve whatever they want.
We have taken Christ out of our lives; people do not believe in evil and do not believe in Hell. There is no penalty for doing evil.
When everything is distilled down, we are a troubled nation with very warped views.
The news is saying that the shooters mother was convinced the world was in peril. For a young 20 year old mind that may cause issues.
I believe that although the framers of the constitution wanted an armed population to protect he citizens against unjust laws; they never thought that simi-auto weapons would exist or that the oppressive government would out gun an army of citizens. Thus this law may not longer have any meaning.
When shooting paper at the shooting range rapid-fire contests are fun and to do well takes skill. Strange as it seems some hollow point rounds produce a tighter group than non-hollow point. If the hollow points are outlawed then everyone has the same handicap.
Would the anti-gun people ban hunting? For deer hunting and other large game a hollow point is more likely to kill quickly. The deer overrun much of the United States. Using cars and motorcycles to cull the deer population is expensive. I raise chickens and ducks and sometimes use a handgun to shoot racoons and other animals that attact my live stock. An auto loading weapon is handy; although i rarely need a second shoot.
Although a total ban on private ownership of firearms will likely prevent events like this from occurring; how would the weapons be collected. If large capacity magazines of 11 rounds and more are outlawed should the owner be compensated for the lost of property? Should owners of banned assault weapons be compensated for lost of property?
Much of gang violence is committed with firearms. Is the problem the firearms or the social and family issues that cause children to join gangs?
Does anyone think that a total ban on private ownership of firearms will take the weapons from the thieves and gangs? How long would it take to ride the country of firearms?
How can a nation that has state sponsored killing of thousands of un born children every year, murder and shooting on television think that we are not adversely affecting the thought process of our youth? We have millions of people who think that they are entitled to that to which they have not worked for and that they deserve whatever they want.
We have taken Christ out of our lives; people do not believe in evil and do not believe in Hell. There is no penalty for doing evil.
When everything is distilled down, we are a troubled nation with very warped views.
Dec 17, 2012 09:24:37 #
jimbo70 wrote:
The guy that did this awful thing had mental problems. He was also addicted to violent video games which can fuel aggression and desensitize people to violence. This goes way beyond gun control.
At least the restriction of access to any and all firearms is a deterent to such tragedies. Let's not shun this issue to the discussion of mental illness and disassociate this with the purchase, access and use of weopons that can do serious bodily harm to others, the easiest of which is firearms. All of these tragedies have been with the use of firearms and their sale and control should be the start of some method to stop this violence
My heart goes out to the woman who's child has demonstrated this violent behavior. They and their families are in serious danger and the system has done nothing to aid them under our present health care system.The prescription for drugs is not the answer, especially when the individual becomes of age and they cease to take their medications. Recent research has some light of hope though with the implementation of implanted electrical stimulation by pacemaker type devices that can calm the hostility and violent behavior. However this is far from a proven technology.
Dec 17, 2012 09:31:02 #
Here are the UK statistics as published by the House of Commons:
Number of offences
In England and Wales firearms were reportedly used in 11,227 offences, 0.3% of all recorded crimes.
There were 7,024 offences in England and Wales in which firearms, excluding air weapons, were reportedly used, a 13% decrease on the previous year, continuing the general decline since 2005/06.
There were 4,203 recorded crimes in which air weapons were reportedly used during 2010/11, a fall of 15% compared with the previous year and 70% below the peak recorded in 2002/03.
In Scotland the police recorded 643 offences which involved the alleged use of a firearm, a 24% decrease on 2009/10. The number of offences has fallen in each of the last four years.
A non-air weapon was alleged to have been used in 410 offences, marginally lower than in 2009/10, while there were 233 alleged air-weapon offences, 45% lower than the previous year.
If you prefer to see the entire 14 page report, you can go to: www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01940.pdf and the file will be downloaded in pdf form
Number of offences
In England and Wales firearms were reportedly used in 11,227 offences, 0.3% of all recorded crimes.
There were 7,024 offences in England and Wales in which firearms, excluding air weapons, were reportedly used, a 13% decrease on the previous year, continuing the general decline since 2005/06.
There were 4,203 recorded crimes in which air weapons were reportedly used during 2010/11, a fall of 15% compared with the previous year and 70% below the peak recorded in 2002/03.
In Scotland the police recorded 643 offences which involved the alleged use of a firearm, a 24% decrease on 2009/10. The number of offences has fallen in each of the last four years.
A non-air weapon was alleged to have been used in 410 offences, marginally lower than in 2009/10, while there were 233 alleged air-weapon offences, 45% lower than the previous year.
If you prefer to see the entire 14 page report, you can go to: www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01940.pdf and the file will be downloaded in pdf form
Dec 17, 2012 09:33:51 #
Dec 17, 2012 09:54:49 #
Dec 17, 2012 10:02:32 #
Jan F. Rasmussen wrote:
No - I think you miss the point. Bad or disturbed ppl will do bad or disturbed things, guns are the most efficient tools for that commonly available.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
I see no point in arguing the efficiency of the weapon. People do these things not the tools. On 9-11 the weapon of choice was an airplane. If you look at the record the worst mass killings involving guns are mostly done in countries were guns are tightly controlled. Any one of these incidents are a tragedy but the fact remains that it is the person that chooses to kill, not the weapon. We need to do more in this country to address the total lack of respect for other people that has become too common among the youth. Gun ownership has declined at a steady rate over the last decade or so and yet incidents like this are increasing. Why is that?
My primary point was the unfair "coward" lable placed on the men at the school. They don't deserve that.
Dec 17, 2012 10:10:14 #
We are living in a crazy world and a lot of things need to be done. I'm not going to argue about guns or the laws to control them, because I don't think that is the issue, neither the TV or video games.
Sadly, goes beyond that, somethingbthat we as humans cannot control: mental health, but we as society need to think about and help as we can.
Maybe you already saw this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
As a mother, both tragegies, the shooting and this story that is the story of more than one family, made me really sad and make me think that we need to help in order to stop this fr om happening again.
Sadly, goes beyond that, somethingbthat we as humans cannot control: mental health, but we as society need to think about and help as we can.
Maybe you already saw this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
As a mother, both tragegies, the shooting and this story that is the story of more than one family, made me really sad and make me think that we need to help in order to stop this fr om happening again.
Dec 17, 2012 10:32:41 #
To one and all
How about this
Since the 2 nd amendment was passed on Dec 15 1791 how about we limit the rights of individuals to arm and protect themselves with the weapons that were in vogue at the time the amendment was written,just a thought but as i see it win win allround
How about this
Since the 2 nd amendment was passed on Dec 15 1791 how about we limit the rights of individuals to arm and protect themselves with the weapons that were in vogue at the time the amendment was written,just a thought but as i see it win win allround
Dec 17, 2012 10:55:20 #
I find it despicable that the media uses this terrible tragedy to focus people's attantion on their anti-gun politics.
If this guy didn't have guns he might have used a bomb or a gallon of gas. The latter might have killed hundreds as another did with a bomb made from fertilizer in Oklahoma city some years ago.
It is also wrong to focus on schools. If they were more protected he'd go to a mall or stadium...anywhere people congregate.
We need to start the dicsussion from the root cause....which I don't have a clue about in this case.
But I know the solution isn't to punish hundreds of millions of innocent gun owners.
If this guy didn't have guns he might have used a bomb or a gallon of gas. The latter might have killed hundreds as another did with a bomb made from fertilizer in Oklahoma city some years ago.
It is also wrong to focus on schools. If they were more protected he'd go to a mall or stadium...anywhere people congregate.
We need to start the dicsussion from the root cause....which I don't have a clue about in this case.
But I know the solution isn't to punish hundreds of millions of innocent gun owners.
Dec 17, 2012 10:56:06 #
Dec 17, 2012 10:56:49 #
berchman
Loc: South Central PA
Anthony Charles wrote:
To one and all
How about this
Since the 2 nd amendment was passed on Dec 15 1791 how about we limit the rights of individuals to arm and protect themselves with the weapons that were in vogue at the time the amendment was written,just a thought but as i see it win win allround
How about this
Since the 2 nd amendment was passed on Dec 15 1791 how about we limit the rights of individuals to arm and protect themselves with the weapons that were in vogue at the time the amendment was written,just a thought but as i see it win win allround
Following your logic, how about we limit the right of free speech to only the printed word, not to the internet, texting on a cell phone, TV, radio? None of these existed at the time either. Were our forefathers so ignorant that they didn't know that weaponry had improved since the ancient Greeks? Did they not anticipate it would improve even further?
Dec 17, 2012 11:04:54 #
Jan F. Rasmussen wrote:
No - I think you miss the point. Bad or disturbed ppl will do bad or disturbed things, guns are the most efficient tools for that commonly available.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
Not really. It is just that the media focused your attention there. Bombs are more effective and can be made with a gallon of gas. That might have killed hundreds of the students in the school.
Guns just happen to be what was used in this case.
I feel berchman is on the right track.
Dec 17, 2012 11:06:19 #
RichieC
Loc: Adirondacks
Jan F. Rasmussen wrote:
No - I think you miss the point. Bad or disturbed ppl will do bad or disturbed things, guns are the most efficient tools for that commonly available.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
Wrong... see link- guns are not the most efficient, and this is really why the EASY blame game is specious.
This is the worst mass killing of school children in American history and no gun in sight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
Looking at this tragedy in Conneticut, there are 1000 x 1000 things we all could have come up with to thwart this complete nut. He drove there in a car.. he used his finger, worst weapon he used of all was his brain.. we could make cars illegal and cut off index fingers, perform lobotomy's... these are ridiculous suggestions.
It is, and always has been a precarious balancing act between freedom and safety. There is no easy answer to this unless you take away all our freedoms, that very well may do it. Would solve our immigration problem as well.
People from other countries think, because of the coverage of this and other tragedies, that we are a gun toting populace, intent on shooting anybody that moves. We have millions of legally and responsibly owned firearms, why doesn't this happen more often? Not because they are hard to get. Perhaps we have a shortage of nuts, but, up till now, we've decided that they will not dictate our freedoms!
Fact is, in my 50+ years, I have never seen a weapon nor heard one go off in anger. ( My Dad did, over in Europe in the 40's- you know- where it's safe) However, I've seen thousands of them, I own a small pile myself. We are not, nor is it particularly dangerous place to live, as a general rule. There are places and times I would not go to certain areas, but by and large, we are free and safe to go anywhere, the drive there being the most dangerous part of any trip.
But things do happen, they are relatively rare. The police are many minutes away when they do, they arrive when its over. That fact and our forefathers bigger picture of tools they put in place to guarantee a free place to live are why the second amendment was put in place. So we the people will always have a say.
Most places in the world are much more dangerous. I think anybody who has visited here, would agree and did not find Americans dangerous and unfriendly. But we, as Americans get to hear how good we could have it if only we did things like everybody else in the world. And I laugh, when I think of the all the people who want to move here. ..
I hate the fact these poor little kids lives are now turning into a political football on a extremely important clause of our constitution.
Dec 17, 2012 11:08:33 #
singleviking wrote:
I have listened to all the rhetoric that has been ... (show quote)
I observation,the massacre did not happen at a gun store.
Dec 17, 2012 11:08:39 #
And if you took the guns away..he would have built a pipe bomb or a chemical bomb. I bet google would teach him how.
Jan F. Rasmussen wrote:
No - I think you miss the point. Bad or disturbed ppl will do bad or disturbed things, guns are the most efficient tools for that commonly available.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
I guess he could have killed at least 50 with guns in the time he managed to stab 22 with a knife.
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