Disclosure of editing when posting pictures
Aug 12, 2023 19:16:48 #
Dbrow411
Loc: South Daytona, FL
Exactly my point. Again, what you see in any photograph ever taken is not exactly what passed through the camera lens. It's either what was exposed on the paper in a darkroom back in the day or what has been processed through software now. The image presented is what the artist wants you to see.
Aug 12, 2023 19:30:58 #
epd1947 wrote:
If you consider it “cheating” then don’t modify any of your images without including a complete and detailed “mea culpa” - no reason why anyone else needs to accept such a narrow set of limits. If a painter is depicting a street scene - under your definition - he or she would need to disclose the fact that they chose not to paint into the scene the garbage cans sitting at the curb that particular day as well as any clouds they might have added into the otherwise cloudless sky.
This is EXACTLY why artistic license is okay. If a painter is excused for painting fantasy, why can't a photographer be excused for editing reality when there is no need for complete faithfulness to the original scene?
Attached are some images. The first is a scene from the then future site of the Edgar Allen Poe Branch of the Charleston, SC, County Library, circa 1976, before the old Battery Gadsden fort on Sullivan's Island was actually restored into a library. This is digitized from a straight-out-of-the-camera Ektachrome Infrared slide. No post processing was done to the slide, but I did digitize it as faithfully as I could manage. You'll have to take my word that it looks like the slide, but that the slide looks about as far from reality as you could possibly get in 1976 without, uh, mind-altering substances!
The second is a street scene from one of the Cinque Terre villages on the coast of Italy. It is straight-out-of-the-iPhone.
The third is a derivation of the second, done in Lightroom and Photoshop, using the Neural Filters and goodness knows what else.
Reality? Meh. I don't have a problem with a photographer going for mood or effect. But then I liked Peter Max posters back in the day (and still do).
Door to Depravity ©1976, Bill Burkholder
(Download)
Flower pot, Cinque Terre, October, 2022
(Download)
Psycho Flower Pot, © 2022, Bill Burkholder
(Download)
Aug 12, 2023 19:47:03 #
Dbrow411 wrote:
Exactly my point. Again, what you see in any photograph ever taken is not exactly what passed through the camera lens. It's either what was exposed on the paper in a darkroom back in the day or what has been processed through software now. The image presented is what the artist wants you to see.
No, what is seen in the photo is exactly what passed thru the lens. What is actually there is what you see.
Aug 12, 2023 19:48:59 #
dirtfarmer wrote:
So you can lie with a photograph, just as you can do other lies other ways.
You have to ask yourself 'What are the consequences of this lie?'
If the consequences could be significant, you should disclose the lie.
If the lie is expected by society, there is no need to disclose the lie.
If the consequences are negligible, there is no need to disclose the lie.
The key is deciding what the consequences COULD be.
You have to ask yourself 'What are the consequences of this lie?'
If the consequences could be significant, you should disclose the lie.
If the lie is expected by society, there is no need to disclose the lie.
If the consequences are negligible, there is no need to disclose the lie.
The key is deciding what the consequences COULD be.
raymondh wrote:
This is kind of like saying that shoplifting is not stealing as long as its less than a $1000.
Shoplifting generally incurs consequences.
I don't know about where you live, but where I live the lower limit to having shoplifting incur consequences is significantly less than $1000.
It is true that the lower limit has been rising recently. Some businesses just don't pay attention to it just for the safety of their employees. In fact some employees have been fired because they resisted shoplifters.
What about going to the bank and walking off with a pen? It's a small item, easily pocketed. Not really a significant amount of money involved. Banks ignore people walking off with their pens. For one thing, the pens are bought with the bank's advertising budget and has the bank name prominently written on the side. So they welcome people using their pens. This sort of thing is more like what I was referring to because it has no negative consequences, neither for the bank nor for the customer.
Aug 12, 2023 20:14:26 #
I have an example of postprocessing using sky replacement. I believe it is justified, even though I did not supply the sky images. (I did disclose it anyway for reasons shown below).
In 2020 my wife's daughter and her boyfriend decided to get married. They wanted the wedding to be on the east coast where most of the family was located. But they lived in Colorado. So the 'rents got the job of selecting a venue. They are into golf so their first suggestion was a golf course they liked.
So we went to the golf course and took some photographs, concentrating on the facility and the restaurants. In our opinion the facilities were not up to a wedding and the restaurants were kind of dark and the decor was outdated. So we told them so. They were not happy. We then looked at a couple other venues. One of them was OK but not great. Another looked pretty good to us. But the kids rejected it. They were looking for a vacation place and this place was quiet and too far out in the sticks. Great for us old guys but not meeting specs for young people.
So we started looking a bit further away. Found a highly rated venue that turned out to be a tent on a dock in a harbor. The town nearby was full of young peoples places but the venue was seriously lacking.
Finally went online and my wife found a place that was rated #5 on the east coast for a wedding venue so we went to see it. It was a 3.5 hour drive each way. Our schedule is not all that open so we scheduled a date and arranged with the venue to take a tour. On the appointed day the weather was overcast. The venue was everything everyone was looking for. The weather was not. But I took photos anyway and made a web page to show them what it was like. Naturally I wanted to sell the venue to them because we were getting weary of driving all over the place trying to find a spot. So I replaced the overcast skies with something better. Photoshop had just recently come out with sky replacement (it wasn't all that hard before but it became easier now). Even though I had taken a few skies on the farm just in case I needed them I just used the canned sky examples included with Photoshop. Examples below.
This example shows the lawn where they hold wedding ceremonies, weather permitting.
This example shows the weather when we visited (admittedly an extreme example -- the sun never came out but it wasn't always this foggy.
So on the web page I included the actual weather with a caveat that this is what happens sometimes.
So they picked a date (mid May) and started in on all the other preparations. About a month before the wedding we started looking at weather forecasts. They included rain. At 3 weeks out, rain forecast. At 2 weeks out, rain forecast. At 1 week out, rain forecast. On the day of the wedding it was 65F and sunny. For the month after the wedding, they had rain every weekend.
All because I replaced the skies.
In 2020 my wife's daughter and her boyfriend decided to get married. They wanted the wedding to be on the east coast where most of the family was located. But they lived in Colorado. So the 'rents got the job of selecting a venue. They are into golf so their first suggestion was a golf course they liked.
So we went to the golf course and took some photographs, concentrating on the facility and the restaurants. In our opinion the facilities were not up to a wedding and the restaurants were kind of dark and the decor was outdated. So we told them so. They were not happy. We then looked at a couple other venues. One of them was OK but not great. Another looked pretty good to us. But the kids rejected it. They were looking for a vacation place and this place was quiet and too far out in the sticks. Great for us old guys but not meeting specs for young people.
So we started looking a bit further away. Found a highly rated venue that turned out to be a tent on a dock in a harbor. The town nearby was full of young peoples places but the venue was seriously lacking.
Finally went online and my wife found a place that was rated #5 on the east coast for a wedding venue so we went to see it. It was a 3.5 hour drive each way. Our schedule is not all that open so we scheduled a date and arranged with the venue to take a tour. On the appointed day the weather was overcast. The venue was everything everyone was looking for. The weather was not. But I took photos anyway and made a web page to show them what it was like. Naturally I wanted to sell the venue to them because we were getting weary of driving all over the place trying to find a spot. So I replaced the overcast skies with something better. Photoshop had just recently come out with sky replacement (it wasn't all that hard before but it became easier now). Even though I had taken a few skies on the farm just in case I needed them I just used the canned sky examples included with Photoshop. Examples below.
This example shows the lawn where they hold wedding ceremonies, weather permitting.
This example shows the weather when we visited (admittedly an extreme example -- the sun never came out but it wasn't always this foggy.
So on the web page I included the actual weather with a caveat that this is what happens sometimes.
So they picked a date (mid May) and started in on all the other preparations. About a month before the wedding we started looking at weather forecasts. They included rain. At 3 weeks out, rain forecast. At 2 weeks out, rain forecast. At 1 week out, rain forecast. On the day of the wedding it was 65F and sunny. For the month after the wedding, they had rain every weekend.
All because I replaced the skies.
Aug 12, 2023 21:40:49 #
RodeoMan
Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
Curmudgeon wrote:
I shoot in RAW and therefore have to process my photographs, What I do or don't do is nobodies business but mine. When I use AI or someone else's photograph in my composites I acknowledge that.
So it sounds like if you posted an image of a coyote leaping in a threatening manner at an out of focus woman, you would let us know there had been some slight modifications. lol
Aug 12, 2023 21:43:25 #
RodeoMan
Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
Dbrow411 wrote:
Geez I hope your being sarcastic. 😁
No I was just being a bit tongue in cheek. Oh, you weren't responding to me? Hmmm, I wonder who?
Aug 12, 2023 21:55:39 #
RodeoMan
Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
JohnSwanda wrote:
Presenting a photograph without comment can't be a lie, because you haven't made any claims about how you made it.
So if you presented an image showing you and a famous person from the arts, sports or politics that you photoshopped into the scene so as to make it appear that the two of you were together and you presented that imag to others without comment at some point does not what is in the image speak to the veracity of the person showing the image. If you don't disclose, then aren't you saying that the image speaks for itself.
Aug 12, 2023 22:13:00 #
Architect1776 wrote:
When you add a fake image you must disclose it.
Otherwise you are lying to the world that it is a photo you captured at the lake.
Some take umbrage at calling it lying but it is. Might as well have AI add a fake sky, or better yet do the whole thing for you.
Otherwise you are lying to the world that it is a photo you captured at the lake.
Some take umbrage at calling it lying but it is. Might as well have AI add a fake sky, or better yet do the whole thing for you.
Suppose instead of adding the sky he altered the shadows on the lake. Would you feel the same? If not, why not?
Aug 12, 2023 22:19:51 #
RodeoMan wrote:
So if you presented an image showing you and a famous person from the arts, sports or politics that you photoshopped into the scene so as to make it appear that the two of you were together and you presented that imag to others without comment at some point does not what is in the image speak to the veracity of the person showing the image. If you don't disclose, then aren't you saying that the image speaks for itself.
Some people have claimed that things like sky replacement is intentional deception. I believe it is an artistic choice and not deception. But photoshopping a celebrity into a photo with yourself is certainly intentional deception, and some people might take it at face value. But many other people, myself included, would immediately wonder if it was real or fake and ask about it. If you lied you are compounding the deception.
Aug 12, 2023 22:29:58 #
RodeoMan
Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
raymondh wrote:
A women doesn't have to disclose how she's enhanced her looks but I'm sure there is many a guy who woke up the morning after and wondered "what the hell did I do?" 
The women ought to be responding to this one, but are probably thinking what good would it do?
Aug 13, 2023 01:08:06 #
damianlv wrote:
My question is: when posting my images on social m... (show quote)
If the image is not being submitted for inclusion in a competition, what does it matter? If I enjoy viewing a particular image, what do I care how it has been produced. Some people need to get a life. Photographers have been manipulating images since the earliest days of photography. Instead of complaining that a photographer has altered an image, they should get out and take a few photographs themselves.
Aug 13, 2023 01:17:31 #
Aug 13, 2023 06:36:49 #
Aug 13, 2023 09:04:08 #
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