burkphoto wrote:
Why? Art is not traditions. Art is in the mind of the artist and the eye of the checkbook holder.
I thought the same thing. But it's not the case, at least among artists.
For instance, when doing intaglio printing using etched plates, it is never proper to cut the paper to size. It is always torn, leaving the ragged edges.
When you get to the point of being allowed to "see behind the curtain," you begin to learn that the artistic fraternity is full of tradition. Following them is a means of paying respect to other artists and artists who have gone before. And yes...there are rebels and outliers. Sometimes they make a lot of money. But they are not well-respected inside the community. In fact it seems that the choice between respect and prosperity is one of the key decisions that artists face.
Think about discussions on this forum around Ansel Adams. Few argue his commercial success. But there are a large number here who loudly proclaim him as a commercial hack.
There sure are a lot of fake skies posted on the UHH. Obvious fakes. Those speak for themselves.
SuperflyTNT wrote:
And those SOOC advocates should tell us exactly what all the settings were on their camera when they took the shot. What processing did the camera do to create that JPEG.
No more true than that you should list every step you followed in your post processing routine.
The thing is not even that I didn't ask my camera to reduce saturation or sharpness in my image. It's that I learned and knew that I needed to take those steps in order to get the best results.
Years ago, when I was repairing electric trains and shavers, I very rarely was required to do anything truly innovative to effect a repair. Instead, most of the time, I followed a quite routine process following procedures that required a modicum of knowledge and coordination. Most of what we do in photography is the same...doing fairy simple things in an appropriate manner at the appropriate time based on existing conditions. Same with driving a car or piloting an aircraft.
Yes, it's in the doing, but it's much more in the knowing how and why and when.
Otherwise, when you do processing, the bulk of the credit would have to go to the designers and programmers who built the software. After all...they are the ones who really did the heavy lifting, not you.
Art is subjective and you an OK image and made it into something folks enjoy. Smile, your an artist.
larryepage wrote:
I thought the same thing. But it's not the case, at least among artists.
For instance, when doing intaglio printing using etched plates, it is never proper to cut the paper to size. It is always torn, leaving the ragged edges.
When you get to the point of being allowed to "see behind the curtain," you begin to learn that the artistic fraternity is full of tradition. Following them is a means of paying respect to other artists and artists who have gone before. And yes...there are rebels and outliers. Sometimes they make a lot of money. But they are not well-respected inside the community. In fact it seems that the choice between respect and prosperity is one of the key decisions that artists face.
Think about discussions on this forum around Ansel Adams. Few argue his commercial success. But there are a large number here who loudly proclaim him as a commercial hack.
I thought the same thing. But it's not the case, ... (
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I was educated to believe…
> That "never" and "always" are dubious conditions, outside of math and the hard sciences.
> That traditions are all too often barriers to innovation and understanding.
> That "being respected within a community by following its norms" is not necessarily a virtue, and may hinder the progress of that community.
> That the concept of art is much greater than the opinions of experts and critics.
> That art is not a specific medium, but a message or emotion communicated or evoked.
If that makes me an outlier, so be it.
Personally, I don't add stuff the was not in the original scene. It doesn't feel right to me. The fact that people often do not want to disclose the fact that they have, seals it for me.
Now I started in Advertising photography, where composites and 'photo illustration' are common so I understand those processes. But when it comes to landscape photography, if substitution is not disclosed, people will assume that you captured a 'real' scene.....one that doesn't really exist, AND that it is all your work.
I would be more comfortable with at least stating that the picture was made in two locations (if you made both originals) If you 'picked a sky as clip art' I think you need to say that.
Put yourself in the viewer's / buyer's place, wouldn't yo like to know.
But if labeled as a composite image, all is fair and up front.
That's my opinion, I realize others will differ.
Good Luck, Nice Picture
If I take a landscape photo and it does not look like what I saw, I can restore it to what I saw . Even good cameras do not always record exactly what we saw.
MJPerini wrote:
...
Put yourself in the viewer's / buyer's place, wouldn't you like to know.
...
Nope...
I look at images on their own merit.
I'll either like them or not.
I don't care if they are "real" or contrived.
burkphoto wrote:
I was educated to believe…
> That "never" and "always" are dubious conditions, outside of math and the hard sciences.
> That traditions are all too often barriers to innovation and understanding.
> That "being respected within a community by following its norms" is not necessarily a virtue, and may hinder the progress of that community.
> That the concept of art is much greater than the opinions of experts and critics.
> That art is not a specific medium, but a message or emotion communicated or evoked.
If that makes me an outlier, so be it.
I was educated to believe… br br > That "... (
show quote)
I was educated much the same way as you. I'm learning at a fairly advanced age that my education didn't really reflect reality.
Limitations on "never" and "always" can be dangerous.
There's nothing wrong with being an outlier. But there's value in knowing that you are one.
dwmoar
Loc: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Bobsphoto wrote:
What is the photo being used for? If it is, for example, a forensic photo to be used in a legal context, accuracy and honesty is important. If you are taking a portrait and use available tools to , say, remove blemishes from the subject, perhaps only the subject should know, . (Hopefully it was at their request.)
As Jerry pointed out, even in the age of film and plates, photos were processed. A photo is processed the moment it enters a camera, based upon exposure settings, focus, film speed, sense, etc. Once film went into the development tank it was processed by solution and time. Printing the negative involved additional processing. The difference now is that we have much greater ability to make significant changes.
I spent two cloudy, dull days at Arches NP. The photos were bland. I was able to make them more interesting in post processing.
The controlling question is whether you are trying to deceive the viewer with your photo in a harmful way. If you are not, then the end product stands on its own merit, because there is creative skill involved from the time you frame the phot until you publish it.
What is the photo being used for? If it is, for ex... (
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The controlling question is whether you are trying to deceive the viewer with your photoIf you are adding things to the image that was never there to begin with then yes you are
deceiving the viewer. Wither that is harmful or not is an entirely different subject.
dwmoar wrote:
The controlling question is whether you are trying to deceive the viewer with your photo
If you are adding things to the image that was never there to begin with then yes you are deceiving the viewer. Wither that is harmful or not is an entirely different subject.
Or creating art....
Perception and interpretation.
we are debating this in the camera club I am a member of. There is quite a bit of discussion on whether we are photographers or digital artist. One point we seem to agree on is that if you change the image, the addition must be from an image you took . . .
. . . thoughts?
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