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My Nikon is as useful to me as a doorstop.
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Jul 20, 2023 14:28:07   #
srg
 
ArtzDarkroom wrote:
lol... I know. Technology changes they way tools are used, if at all.

I use my pocket computer to: talk, text, know the weather prognostication, check my calendar, photograph, write Yelp reviews, get an Uber/Lift, facebook, instagram, tweet/thread, get CVS medication notifications and etc.

It's true I am not a professional photographer and kudos to you if you are.
When I started taking pictures and developing B&W pix in 1970 very few people carried cameras. Photographer filled a niche. Today EVERYBODY has a camera. Today celebrities with millions of followers have their images seen within minutes. Ansel would be envious.

Smartphones are here, that's clear. Deal with it.
lol... I know. Technology changes they way tools a... (show quote)


My God Man. I had no idea.
This is truly astonishing, eye opening news.
I will have to readjust my entire life after reading your post.
Thanks. But dealing with it, that may be impossible.

Reply
Jul 20, 2023 14:46:54   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I'llmak a very sophisticated and philosophical comment, You y'all stand by and get ready for some enlightenment"

Here goes! All the cultism, tribalism, and snobbism about gear is stupid!

I have been interested in photogahy since I was 7 years old. There were always folks who simply enjoyed makg family snapshots with simple equipment- box camera made of Bakolite, Kodak "folders" Brownies, Instamatics Polaroid cameras, and some ventured into consumer-grade more complex gear. Most regular folks brought their film to the drugstore, had prints made, and pasted them in albums. Waht the Dickens was wrong with that?

There were always more advanced amateurs- they made Kodachrome slides and sent the film to Rocherter for processing, some had darkrooms and processed and their own negatives and prints. The invited friends and family to sit through endless slidshos and home movies! A few of us decided to take up photography as a career- cool?

So, what's the big deal with cellphones- Are they some sort of plague? They have just taken the place of all the box cameras, Instamtics, and Polaroids, they are cheap to run- no film and processing to wort about. and folks are having fun- just like in the olden days. The devices are just making photography accessible to more regular folks and kids and who knows, the bug may bite and some will become advanced amateurs or pros- or not! Many will become snobish gearheads and still make lousy images and some will create little masterpieces with their phones.

Y'all gotta admit, these phones are neat little gadgets. They can produce surprisingly good results. My reading is that many of the snobs are jealous. They have invested their life savings in high-end gear and can not shoot their way out of a wet old photo mailer while their kids are producing perfectly well-exposed and saturated images and videos! Some of those kids have a natural talent for composition!

Too much competition? So, everybody is taking pictures, more than ever before. They are doig "selfies", party pictures, vacation shots, and more. So, if you want to be recognized for great work, enter photo competitions, or become a professional, you have to be damn good at what you do- a significant cut above the unwashed masses! Folk won't pay hard-earned money for waht they can do by themselves.

My first studio boss and mentor taught me a valuable lesson when he took me on as an assistant/goger/ janitor, apprentice. He said, "There are two kinds of photographers- the ones who TALK a good job and the ones who DO a good job- they are usually not the same photographer"! Lately, I have augmented that philosophy. There are photographers who talk about GEAR and photographers here who talk about SUBSTANCE AND CONTENT. A typical question here is "I wanna set up for portrats, sports, landscape, still life- whatever... I shoot NIKON..." So waht? I would rather hear, I wanna set up for portraits and I shoot kids, pretty ladies, ugly wrestlers, birds, great sunsets, whatever., etc. Get my drift?
I'llmak a very sophisticated and philosophical co... (show quote)


I have a friend who is finishing her MFA degree this month. Her major is Illustration, and she already is doing incredible work.

Part of being an illustrator is building a library of reference photographs. These are high-quality images from which she can answer questions like, "What color is a ______?" "What does the texture of a live _____ (starfish, maybe) really look like?" "How do the shadows really fall if a young girl is running down a hallway lit by chandeliers and large windows on one side?"

She now uses her cell phone camera to take her teference photos, mostly retiring her nice Canon system. Why? Partly because it produces very high quality and accurate photographs. (She doesn't get paid anything extra for being an expert with Adobe products.) But also because using her phone allows her to capture life without altering it, at least not very much.

I am hoping to get her to let me go along on one of her expeditions to capture reference photographs. Maybe to teach me to be her photographic assistant. It would be a good way to learn more about this whole CPP (Cell Phone Photography) phenomenon.

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Jul 20, 2023 15:07:48   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
No doubt Adams and Weegee were great photographers who each created iconic bodies of work. Each used the equipment of their era. Adams did much of his famous images on an 8X10 view camer and Weegee (Arthur Felig) used his 4x5 Speed Graphic. Adams had a very clinical and complex darkroom technique whereas Weegee someties proceeded to film in the trunk of his car in a changing bag! Might as well include Mathew Brady- he used a wetplate camera to photograph the Civil War and David Duglas Duncan did Vietnam with 35 mm. Dianne Arbus made some of the best images on Polaroid!

Just because a traditional camera may require more technical skills to use as compared to a cell phone, it does not alwas automatically produce art, capture dramatic moments, or create effective compositions. These atributes are strictly a matterof the photographer's talent. Defining a photographer or their work by their equipment, and I will be kind, is SILLY!

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Jul 20, 2023 15:26:44   #
Bill McKenna
 
No issue that cell phones are here to stay. BUT...cell phones don't make a photographer any more than golf clubs don't make an excellent golfer. Almost everywhere I go I see people shooting like crazy on their cell phones. When I know the shooting conditions, it's easy to know what kind of images they are getting. Mostly garbage...which is my guess as to what millions of cell phone shooters are getting. Just look at what shows up on social media. For example: vacation pictures. Most of them are pure garbage. I'd be embarrassed to show them to family and friends. The horizon isn't straight. It's often hard to identify the subject matter. The image is out of focus. The image is under or overexposed. The shooter doesn't even know what the term "composition" means. I could go on and on. Great images are still taken by great photographers. And great photographers use really good equipment. Do I take pictures on my cell phone? Sure! But certainly not for any serious shoot of an important subject matter. I shoot college football frequently. If I tried to do this on a cell phone I'd lose my job within two weeks. I need the proper equipment. And I read often about people not wanting to carry around a lot of equipment. Okay. But accept the fact that you are going to be compromising some image at some point because you don't have the right lens or the right camera that can handle your lighting situation. I'll pay the price to get the images I want.

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Jul 20, 2023 15:44:41   #
Elfoto1975 Loc: Orlando Florida
 
Hi i am new here ☺️ ArtzDarkroom , technology always going to improve the way we do thinks , the way we want to do it is totally in our hands we can still use film cameras and make a dark room to develop them that's relaxin and inspiring , but at the very end everything will end up on a museum to everyone to enjoi and because of that doesn't mean it take value of the fun of film! This new technology it will be on a museum to one day and I can't wait to see what comes next! Greetings from Florida!

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Jul 20, 2023 15:57:11   #
Horseart Loc: Alabama
 
I seldom use my phone as a camera because what I want to shoot is usually too far away for me to hike at 85 years old. I also take a lot of shots of birds and animals I can't get close to. I have 6 cameras but "too far away" is when I grab my Nikon P1000.

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Jul 20, 2023 16:15:15   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Bill McKenna wrote:
No issue that cell phones are here to stay. BUT...cell phones don't make a photographer any more than golf clubs don't make an excellent golfer. Almost everywhere I go I see people shooting like crazy on their cell phones. When I know the shooting conditions, it's easy to know what kind of images they are getting. Mostly garbage...which is my guess as to what millions of cell phone shooters are getting. Just look at what shows up on social media. For example: vacation pictures. Most of them are pure garbage. I'd be embarrassed to show them to family and friends. The horizon isn't straight. It's often hard to identify the subject matter. The image is out of focus. The image is under or overexposed. The shooter doesn't even know what the term "composition" means. I could go on and on. Great images are still taken by great photographers. And great photographers use really good equipment. Do I take pictures on my cell phone? Sure! But certainly not for any serious shoot of an important subject matter. I shoot college football frequently. If I tried to do this on a cell phone I'd lose my job within two weeks. I need the proper equipment. And I read often about people not wanting to carry around a lot of equipment. Okay. But accept the fact that you are going to be compromising some images at some point because you don't have the right lens or the right camera that can handle your lighting situation. I'll pay the price to get the images I want.
No issue that cell phones are here to stay. BUT..... (show quote)


Obviously, you don't bring a knife to a gunfight- mind you, I know some folks who are pretty handy with a knife and might come out unharmed with their opponent totally eviscerated!

Seriously though! I am a commercial photographer- it's my day job and I am not about to shoot a major assignment with my cell phone- not even a minor assignemt. By the same token, I can pack my Phas I set up in my pocket and shoot casual images in the park on my way home from the grocery store. I have shot baseball, hockey, rugby, wrestling, and martial arts competitions- no cell phones there! Professions select the right tools for the right jobs- simple!

Family snapshooters have been shooting good and bad pictures for centuries. Some are surprisingly good, some kida OK, and, some are bloody-awful- but for the pervayors of mostof the images, it's no matter ego or pride in craftsmanship. It is just a matterof Aunt Jenny's birthday partyorI caught a big fish, or whatever- memories. Years ago these images were confined to their family album, scrapbook, or a shoebox or drawer full of wrinkled snapshots. Nowadas they end up on social media for all to see. Facebook, Tick-Tock, Instagram, etc., are NOY art museums, galleries, or exhibitions of professional photography. Nor are the repositories of great literature necessarily accurate news. They are just folks havg fun, communicating, showing off, and some acting stupidly.

Even here, supposedly, a photography platform, I have seen some pretty rough stuff along with the good images. And some good communication along with the unmitigated nonsense! PEOPLE!

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Jul 20, 2023 17:17:33   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
ArtzDarkroom wrote:
lol... I know. Technology changes they way tools are used, if at all.

I use my pocket computer to: talk, text, know the weather prognostication, check my calendar, photograph, write Yelp reviews, get an Uber/Lift, facebook, instagram, tweet/thread, get CVS medication notifications and etc.

It's true I am not a professional photographer and kudos to you if you are.
When I started taking pictures and developing B&W pix in 1970 very few people carried cameras. Photographer filled a niche. Today EVERYBODY has a camera. Today celebrities with millions of followers have their images seen within minutes. Ansel would be envious.

Smartphones are here, that's clear. Deal with it.
lol... I know. Technology changes they way tools a... (show quote)


For me the opposite. The phone is handy for quick records and snapshots, useless for real photography

Reply
Jul 20, 2023 17:31:45   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Bill McKenna wrote:
No issue that cell phones are here to stay. BUT...cell phones don't make a photographer any more than golf clubs don't make an excellent golfer. Almost everywhere I go I see people shooting like crazy on their cell phones. When I know the shooting conditions, it's easy to know what kind of images they are getting. Mostly garbage...which is my guess as to what millions of cell phone shooters are getting. Just look at what shows up on social media. For example: vacation pictures. Most of them are pure garbage. I'd be embarrassed to show them to family and friends. The horizon isn't straight. It's often hard to identify the subject matter. The image is out of focus. The image is under or overexposed. The shooter doesn't even know what the term "composition" means. I could go on and on. Great images are still taken by great photographers. And great photographers use really good equipment. Do I take pictures on my cell phone? Sure! But certainly not for any serious shoot of an important subject matter. I shoot college football frequently. If I tried to do this on a cell phone I'd lose my job within two weeks. I need the proper equipment. And I read often about people not wanting to carry around a lot of equipment. Okay. But accept the fact that you are going to be compromising some image at some point because you don't have the right lens or the right camera that can handle your lighting situation. I'll pay the price to get the images I want.
No issue that cell phones are here to stay. BUT..... (show quote)

When I was in high school, then college, I had a Kodak Instamatic 100. Neither it’s shutter speed nor aperture was adjustable, but I learned a lot {mostly by doing “wrong things”, then figuring out why I got the results I did} by using it. I would guess you would never use an Instamatic 100 professionally - if nothing else, the lens and lack of control of shutter speed would doom your efforts. A cell phone is kind of like an Instamatic 100. You can pick and pick at it, but does have its uses, and some people will learn some things by using it.

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Jul 20, 2023 17:32:16   #
Horseart Loc: Alabama
 
Quote:
E.L.. Shapiro: Even here, supposedly, a photography platform, I have seen some pretty rough stuff along with the good images. And some good communication along with the unmitigated nonsense! PEOPLE!


Still enjoying your posts!!!!
You are a great photographer and so good at helping wannabees like me, to improve. I have painted since the age of 4 and I teach others to paint because I know everyone CAN, some just don't know it yet. The very first thing I tell all of my students is to never forget that there will ALWAYS be artists who paint better than you do and artists who paint worse than you do. I feel that this applies to everything we do in life...I feel that great photographers are "naturals". I still believe it's the EYE, not so much the camera.

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Jul 20, 2023 17:40:47   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
ArtzDarkroom wrote:
lol... I know. Technology changes they way tools are used, if at all.

I use my pocket computer to: talk, text, know the weather prognostication, check my calendar, photograph, write Yelp reviews, get an Uber/Lift, facebook, instagram, tweet/thread, get CVS medication notifications and etc.

It's true I am not a professional photographer and kudos to you if you are.
When I started taking pictures and developing B&W pix in 1970 very few people carried cameras. Photographer filled a niche. Today EVERYBODY has a camera. Today celebrities with millions of followers have their images seen within minutes. Ansel would be envious.

Smartphones are here, that's clear. Deal with it.
lol... I know. Technology changes they way tools a... (show quote)


Certainly you are spot on for the masses but for some, conventional cameras won't go away guickly.
I have and use the best of both worlds.

A whole new world is opening up with AI. I am excited to get into that as well.

Reply
 
 
Jul 20, 2023 17:42:10   #
Horseart Loc: Alabama
 
kymarto wrote:
For me the opposite. The phone is handy for quick records and snapshots, useless for real photography


Agree! Phones can be very useful. I have a picture of my car, my driver's license and my license plate in mine, in case my car is ever stolen. Showing the police is quicker than telling them.
It is also handy in case you need to reach behind the fridge to snap a pic of the serial number or any other text or numbers on anything that's hard to move out or see behind, up high or down low. Also handy to go and find some candles when the power goes off at night. What did we do without them?

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Jul 20, 2023 18:25:23   #
ArtzDarkroom Loc: Near Disneyland-Orange County, California
 
btw, The admin moved it here. I originally posted this thread in the Attic... where it died.

I don't agree with any of you so far.
My Nikon is not a doorstop, perhaps I went too far. I will not be trading it for your doorstop yet.
When I want to take pictures that allow me to setup for them, I will still use ol' Nikki.

My photography is not for museums, weddings etc. I leave that for the professionals.

I agree that equipment is not what makes a photographer. Composition, timeliness of the moment and subject matter are more important. Newer equipment continues to get better, releasing so many from learning the technology of their tools, phones or cameras (Nikon etc.)

AI was broached and it may make holding a camera irrelevant for commercial artists. Lets see if "true photographers" complain about that too. lol

Reply
Jul 20, 2023 18:59:33   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
larryepage wrote:
I have a friend who is finishing her MFA degree this month. Her major is Illustration, and she already is doing incredible work.

Part of being an illustrator is building a library of reference photographs. These are high-quality images from which she can answer questions like, "What color is a ______?" "What does the texture of a live _____ (starfish, maybe) really look like?" "How do the shadows really fall if a young girl is running down a hallway lit by chandeliers and large windows on one side?"

She now uses her cell phone camera to take her teference photos, mostly retiring her nice Canon system. Why? Partly because it produces very high quality and accurate photographs. (She doesn't get paid anything extra for being an expert with Adobe products.) But also because using her phone allows her to capture life without altering it, at least not very much.

I am hoping to get her to let me go along on one of her expeditions to capture reference photographs. Maybe to teach me to be her photographic assistant. It would be a good way to learn more about this whole CPP (Cell Phone Photography) phenomenon.
I have a friend who is finishing her MFA degree th... (show quote)



That sounds like fun! I shot this with my Samsung cellphone camera. I was leaving my home from the office and noticed these weeds in the garden. I learned a few tricks to making fine adjustments with the phone camera. The darn thing has a manual setting with many options. I caught the red flower on the way back from the grocery store.





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Jul 20, 2023 22:06:26   #
delder Loc: Maryland
 
I will add another comment to this string.
I have been to several Entertainment Venues over the past couple of years that specifically
PROHIBIT "Professional" Cameras with interchangeable lenses, flash, tripods, etc.
[Birchmere as one example]. In other situations, a full size camera [With your full kit, etc.] can raise questions.
I spent the years between film and my D3100 with a series of pocket digital cameras. These were inobtrusive enoug to not draw undue attention to my photography. Even with the Nikon, I often carry my Lumix DMC-ZS6 as a backup.
It has a belt case as does my Samsung S21 so I can get that quick shot.

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