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For the Eggheads out there - Gravity Waves
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Jun 29, 2023 19:07:42   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Gravity is the strongest of the four known forces; electromagnetic, weak and strong nuclear forces which operate at the subatomic level but hold atoms and therefore our world together, and then gravity. In the past, we've been able to observe and measure the effects of gravity but could not detect it directly. Modern astronomy has now actually detected gravitational waves for the first time. Understanding the basic properties of gravity is the next great step in our understanding of our universe.

https://r.smartbrief.com/resp/qUpQCKiGAIDwtzvCCifPauBWcNjVEq

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Jun 29, 2023 19:09:03   #
Joexx
 
No, actually it is the weakest

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Jun 29, 2023 20:07:30   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
"Ordered from strongest to weakest, the forces are 1) the strong nuclear force, 2) the electromagnetic force, 3) the weak nuclear force, and 4) gravity."

https://www.wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2013/05/22/why-is-gravity-the-strongest-force/
--Bob
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Gravity is the strongest of the four known forces; electromagnetic, weak and strong nuclear forces which operate at the subatomic level but hold atoms and therefore our world together, and then gravity. In the past, we've been able to observe and measure the effects of gravity but could not detect it directly. Modern astronomy has now actually detected gravitational waves for the first time. Understanding the basic properties of gravity is the next great step in our understanding of our universe.

https://r.smartbrief.com/resp/qUpQCKiGAIDwtzvCCifPauBWcNjVEq
Gravity is the strongest of the four known forces;... (show quote)

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Jun 29, 2023 20:22:53   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Joexx wrote:
No, actually it is the weakest


It's really a semantics issue. Gravity is weakest of all forces operating in the subatomic world. But if you allow for distance in your considerations, gravity operates over billions of light years where the other three forces shrink to the magnitude of gravity in the subatomic world. The real trick these days is how they all fit together. That was Einstein's and Hawking's unresolved issue. Then again, I'm not, in any way, an expert here, just an interested follower.

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Jun 30, 2023 07:05:22   #
Julian Loc: Sarasota, FL
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
It's really a semantics issue. Gravity is weakest of all forces operating in the subatomic world. But if you allow for distance in your considerations, gravity operates over billions of light years where the other three forces shrink to the magnitude of gravity in the subatomic world. The real trick these days is how they all fit together. That was Einstein's and Hawking's unresolved issue. Then again, I'm not, in any way, an expert here, just an interested follower.


No semantics here, just facts and science. Imagine trying to learn and understand the physical world using semantics.

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Jun 30, 2023 09:51:06   #
HOHIMER
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Gravity is the strongest of the four known forces; electromagnetic, weak and strong nuclear forces which operate at the subatomic level but hold atoms and therefore our world together, and then gravity. In the past, we've been able to observe and measure the effects of gravity but could not detect it directly. Modern astronomy has now actually detected gravitational waves for the first time. Understanding the basic properties of gravity is the next great step in our understanding of our universe.

https://r.smartbrief.com/resp/qUpQCKiGAIDwtzvCCifPauBWcNjVEq
Gravity is the strongest of the four known forces;... (show quote)


Nope: Gravity is the weakest force and is less than one millionth of a millionth the strength of the strong nuclear force.

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Jun 30, 2023 10:22:49   #
Schoee Loc: Europe
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Gravity is the strongest of the four known forces; electromagnetic, weak and strong nuclear forces which operate at the subatomic level but hold atoms and therefore our world together, and then gravity. In the past, we've been able to observe and measure the effects of gravity but could not detect it directly. Modern astronomy has now actually detected gravitational waves for the first time. Understanding the basic properties of gravity is the next great step in our understanding of our universe.

https://r.smartbrief.com/resp/qUpQCKiGAIDwtzvCCifPauBWcNjVEq
Gravity is the strongest of the four known forces;... (show quote)


Gravity is NOT a force. It is a manifestation of curved space time. Mass curves space time and then space time determines how mass moves. In classical physics you can pretend gravity is a force and use classical formulae because the error is small however it is wrong

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Jun 30, 2023 10:41:33   #
BrianFlaherty Loc: Wilseyville, CA
 
There was an interesting segment last night (June 30) on the PBS NewsHour. And, interview by the Science Editor (Miles O'Brien) with two physicists specializing in "dark matter;" "black holes;" and, "gravity waves." Very clear explanation of current understanding. It can be found on pbs.org.

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Jun 30, 2023 11:37:15   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Schoee wrote:
Gravity is NOT a force. It is a manifestation of curved space time. Mass curves space time and then space time determines how mass moves. In classical physics you can pretend gravity is a force and use classical formulae because the error is small however it is wrong


That is my understanding as well.

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Jun 30, 2023 16:14:19   #
Boris77
 
Gravity is a very strong force when you get old.
I do not worry much about the Nuclear, but Gravity will not matter much if it goes ballistic.
I hope that my electromagnetic helmet gives me some protection.
I think that covers it all.
Boris

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Jun 30, 2023 18:05:13   #
tgreenhaw
 
HOHIMER wrote:
Nope: Gravity is the weakest force and is less than one millionth of a millionth the strength of the strong nuclear force.


Wouldn't it be ironic if the strong force is actually gravity?

The mass of a proton is concentrated in its center whereas the charge of a proton is spread to its full radius. The force of gravity is an inverse square of distance. if two protons collide with enough force, their pointlike mass can come to very close proximity where their attraction overcomes the diffuse electric charge which is distorted to a teardrop-like shape.

The electric force between two protons is roughly 1.24 × 10^(36) times the gravitational force between them, for any fixed distance. The charge radius of the proton is pretty well established, but its mass radius is definitely significantly smaller with much conflicting experimental evidence, some only slightly smaller and some as small as approaching planck length. If the mass radius is much more than 1.24 × 10^(36) times smaller than the charge radius then the strong force could actually not exist and actually is gravity after all. It would require mass to be concentrated into something less than planck length, unlikely but not impossible.

This is a speculative hypothesis waiting for experimental evidence on the mass radius of the proton.

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Jun 30, 2023 19:14:22   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Yeah, we have a lot to learn about how the forces all fit together. Maybe we can manipulate space-time to our advantage — someday. Let's hope we survive as a species to get that far.

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Jun 30, 2023 21:03:10   #
josquin1 Loc: Massachusetts
 
rmalarz wrote:
"Ordered from strongest to weakest, the forces are 1) the strong nuclear force, 2) the electromagnetic force, 3) the weak nuclear force, and 4) gravity."

https://www.wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2013/05/22/why-is-gravity-the-strongest-force/
--Bob


And that "weak force" actually holds the universe together.

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Jul 1, 2023 01:31:07   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Several comments have been made taking issue that I said that whether gravity is the weakest force or the strongest force is semantics. Interpretation is a synonym for semantics. Everything that has been offered here is an interpretation because what we are dealing with right now are theories not known facts. Several have cited that the strong nuclear forces is many millions of times stronger than gravity. But only gravity is capable of forming black holes. Others have commented that gravity is not a force. Current theory is that the four known forces, electromagnetic, strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity (yes gravity is a force) are really manifestations of a single force that combines them all - the grand unification theory. Many phenomena in the subatomic world defy logic as we understand things. When an electron "jumps" from one orbital to another, the change is instantaneous with no transition or travel time. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle says you can't specify the location and speed of a particle at the same time yet we do this all the time in the macro world. Einstein hated this concept because he couldn't believe God would not allow things in our orderly world to depend on the roll of the dice.

The point of this article was that gravity waves have been up to now, speculation as we've never been able to detect them. For the first time, we have now been able to detect them and confirm that they do in fact exist. They did this by measuring a change in relative locations of multiple pulsars in a galaxy because they were perturbed by a gravity wave. It's another piece of a huge puzzle falling into place.

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Jul 1, 2023 11:03:12   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Perhaps we can accommodate both views in this quote from Dr. Christopher Baird from Texas A&M:

“ Gravity is indeed a real force, but not in the traditional sense. In other words, gravity is not a direct, classical, action-at-a-distance force between two objects. However, in the broader sense, gravity is indeed a force because it describes the resulting interaction between two masses. Gravitational effects are fundamentally caused by the warping of spacetime and the motion of objects through the warped spacetime. However, the end result is as if a force was applied. Therefore, the most accurate approach would be to call gravity an "emergent force," meaning that what looks like a direct force is actually emerging from more fundamental effects (the warping of spacetime). With this in mind, it is perfectly reasonable to call gravity a real force.”

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