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Thoughts on buying refurbished from Nikon
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Feb 25, 2023 08:51:26   #
ScottWardwell Loc: Maine
 
larryepage wrote:
If believing this makes you feel better, please feel free to go ahead. I love my Nikon stuff and believe that NikonUSA is a reasonably decent company. But for some reason, a whole set of myths about how things work just won't go away.

First...everyone always just glows about how their stuff comes back from Nikon all cleaned up with new grips. And this is generally true. But it is not just from the goodness of their heart. Opening a camera requires removing every grip pad on it, because the assembly screws are hidden under them. Once removed, they cannot be replaced. New ones are required. That's one reason that contributes to regular repair costs.

Second...repaired items are repackaged by relatively unskilled workers into white boxes (or in the lens i bought on clearance, a dust bag and bubble wrap). They are not gone over by the trained technicians. That is one reason the warranty is 90 days instead of one year.

The result of buying refurbished is usually just fine. Sometimes it is not, as in my experience above. But folks here need to stop promulgating the lie that these refurbished products are "better than new." Some companies used to sell products like that. NikonUSA does not.
If believing this makes you feel better, please fe... (show quote)

I never said they were better than new. I have owned refurb'ed myself. By your narrative, they should rename it the "Nikon Re'Turd Program. Get real.

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Feb 25, 2023 08:52:14   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
ScottWardwell wrote:
With all due respect, no rational company is going to send equipment back out the door that hasn't been put on the lift and given a good inspection and fixed where required. To do so would be risking their reputation and brand by carelessly putting back out gear that has not been vetted.
If they did so, the overall reputation the Nikon Refurb'ed Program would be on par with "Abes of Maine".
When I sent my D850 recently to replace the LCD screen which it cost me about $350 to $375 out of warranty. I did not select a cleaning or calibration but they included it anyway when i read the final work order plus cleaning the view finder. The regular cleaning charge is not far South of that anyway.
And I got it back less than 2 weeks later. I understand how jaded some people can get, but that is great customer service and points to the skill and efficiency of their techs.
And that's why I am a die-hard Nikon user on my 7th DSLR body since 2008. I still own 4 of them and gifted the other 3 to family.
With all due respect, no rational company is going... (show quote)


No. No rational company is going to spend the money, the time, and retain the human resources to test equipment -- that was built to spec to last years -- and then sell this value-added (retested) equipment at a lower cost than new.

Let's test your theory and your business acumen. Let's just say on Monday I send you the following customer returns:

3 x D780
4 x D5600
2 x Z DX NIKKOR 18-140mm f/3.5-6.3 VR
1 x AF-S NIKKOR 500mm F/5.6E Pf ED VR

How long will it take you, an individual, to do your "thorough" testing? A day? A week? A month? Forever? Do you even have all the equipment onsite to perform your imaginary "thorough" testing? Beyond the equipment, do you have the procedures? If you're this level of 1-man all-equipment expert, how much are you paid? Can you do all this value-added work at a cost lower than selling the same equipment new?

Take your big brain and equipment and divide over multiple employees, how big is your staff? Are they full-time, just waiting for an unknown quantity of equipment, in unknown model distributions, at unknown times? Is your small army of staff now the same size or bigger than the automated manufacturing at the original overseas plant?

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Feb 25, 2023 09:01:29   #
ScottWardwell Loc: Maine
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
No. No rational company is going to spend the money, the time, and retain the human resources to test equipment -- that was built to spec to last years -- and then sell this value-added (retested) equipment at a lower cost than new.

Let's test your theory and your business acumen. Let's just say on Monday I send you the following customer returns:

3 x D750
4 x D5500
2 x Z DX NIKKOR 18-140mm f/3.5-6.3 VR
1 x AF-S NIKKOR 500mm F/5.6E Pf ED VR

How long will it take you, an individual, to do your "thorough" testing? A day? A week? A month? Forever? Do you even have all the equipment onsite to perform your imaginary "thorough" testing? Beyond the equipment, do you have the procedures? If you're this level of 1-man all-equipment expert, how much are you paid? Can you do all this work at a cost lower than selling the same equipment new?

Take your big brain and equipment and divide over multiple employees, how big is your staff? Are they full-time, just waiting for an unknown quantity of equipment, in unknown model distributions, at unknown times? Is your small army of staff now the same size or bigger than the automated manufacturing at the original overseas plant?
No. No rational company is going to spend the mone... (show quote)


Paul, every department has a budget with projections for revenue and costs. They know what this stuff costs to do. They make or break it on the aggregate and not the separate discrete item like a DX lens. Reputation and customer service go hand in hand. If the cost running a re-furb program made no economic sense, there would not be such a program. And all this equipment would end up in a shredder for recycling. Besides they have the infrastructure to support refurb already in place - their repair and maintenance program.

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Feb 25, 2023 09:10:57   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
ScottWardwell wrote:
Paul, every department has a budget with projections for revenue and costs. They know what this stuff costs to do. They make or break it on the aggregate and not the separate discrete item like a DX lens. Reputation and customer service go hand in hand. If the cost running a re-furb program made no economic sense, there would not be such a program. And all this equipment would end up in a shredder for recycling.


You run the refurb department with pre-printed checklists of visual inspection points and the necessary physical re-packaging materials. Now you just need a low-cost team to execute the checklist procedures focused on physically handling the equipment to the bare minimum, just repackaging and quickly adding into the 'refurb' inventory stock. Now, you recover some of the costs of this extra staff when reselling virtually new equipment at a lower cost (and lower profit margin).

ScottWardwell wrote:
They know what this stuff costs to do.


BTW: nice dance around all the specifics of how you'd obtain your "thorough" testing equipment for the entire Nikon inventory and the expert staff needed to test all the returned "refurbed" equipment. Guess your acumen on how to operate this function isn't really there? Just vague assumptions of how it should be ...

ScottWardwell wrote:
If the cost running a re-furb program made no economic sense, there would not be such a program.


The argument is not "if", but how. Urban myth or economic reality?

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Feb 25, 2023 09:14:15   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
ScottWardwell wrote:
With all due respect, no rational company is going to send equipment back out the door that hasn't been put on the lift and given a good inspection and fixed where required. To do so would be risking their reputation and brand by carelessly putting back out gear that has not been vetted.
If they did so, the overall reputation of the Nikon Refurb'ed Program would be on par with "Abes of Maine". You know? A dumpster fire.
When I sent my D850 recently to replace the LCD screen which it cost me about $350 to $375 out of warranty, I did not select a cleaning or calibration but they included it anyway when i read the final work order plus cleaning the view finder. The regular cleaning charge is not far South of that anyway.
And I got it back less than 2 weeks later. I understand how jaded some people can get, but that is great customer service and points to the skill and efficiency of their techs.
And that's why I am a die-hard Nikon user on my 7th DSLR body since 2008. I still own 4 of them and gifted the other 3 to family.
With all due respect, no rational company is going... (show quote)


It simply does not happy that way. I worked for Nikon for years. Returned items are looked at to make sure they work. End of story. They are not put through any testing by techs. It is a completely different division.
It is an unban myth to think they are sent to the factory and tested.
Like I said, 99.9999% of all refurbs are remorse buyers, there is NOTHING wrong with 99.999999999999% of returns.
To think that their was something wrong with refurbs is just not correct.

Reply
Feb 25, 2023 09:19:12   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
ScottWardwell wrote:
With all due respect, no rational company is going to send equipment back out the door that hasn't been put on the lift and given a good inspection and fixed where required. To do so would be risking their reputation and brand by carelessly putting back out gear that has not been vetted.
If they did so, the overall reputation of the Nikon Refurb'ed Program would be on par with "Abes of Maine". You know? A dumpster fire.
When I sent my D850 recently to replace the LCD screen which it cost me about $350 to $375 out of warranty, I did not select a cleaning or calibration but they included it anyway when i read the final work order plus cleaning the view finder. The regular cleaning charge is not far South of that anyway.
And I got it back less than 2 weeks later. I understand how jaded some people can get, but that is great customer service and points to the skill and efficiency of their techs.
And that's why I am a die-hard Nikon user on my 7th DSLR body since 2008. I still own 4 of them and gifted the other 3 to family.
With all due respect, no rational company is going... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 25, 2023 09:20:14   #
Festus Loc: North Dakota
 
I've bought several refurbished lenes fron Nikon. All looked as if they were new and all functioned flawlessly. I feel buying refurbished from Nikon is a far safer bet than buying used from any saource.

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Feb 25, 2023 09:23:03   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
grandpaw wrote:
I am looking at a Z 24-70 2.8 lens from Nikon and wanted to get your thoughts on buying refurbished. I have never bought any items that were refurbished and would like some input whether positive or negative. Thanks, Grandpaw


I have purchased several bodies and lenses from the Nikon Referb store. No problem with any lens but did have a problem with a z5. I called and asked for it to be repaired. I didn't want a refund because I bought it on one of their referb sales and it would cost 200.00 more to purchase it as a refurb, not on sale. The person I spoke with at Nikon told me to send the z5 back for a refund and he would send me a code to purchase something from Nikon for 20% off. He said I could buy another z5 or a lens or whatever. I decided to upgrade to a z6ii. They also sent me a return slip so it cost nothing to return the z5. I would give Nikon 5 stars on the way they handled this situation. The z6ii came looking like it just came out of a box as a new unit and had zero clicks. I always look for good buys on referbs.

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Feb 25, 2023 09:23:15   #
BurghByrd Loc: Pittsburgh
 
Personally I'd have no qualms about buying refurbished from a reputable company like Nikon. See Chg_Canon's comments for an interresting perspective. You always have the option of returning the item if by some chance it doesn't meet your expectations.

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Feb 25, 2023 09:25:03   #
Warhorse Loc: SE Michigan
 
I have purchased two refurbed lenses and a D500 from Nikon, all have been great. Also purchased a used lens from KEH that has also been excellent.

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Feb 25, 2023 09:26:56   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Bridges wrote:
I have purchased several bodies and lenses from the Nikon Referb store. No problem with any lens but did have a problem with a z5. I called and asked for it to be repaired. I didn't want a refund because I bought it on one of their referb sales and it would cost 200.00 more to purchase it as a refurb, not on sale. The person I spoke with at Nikon told me to send the z5 back for a refund and he would send me a code to purchase something from Nikon for 20% off. He said I could buy another z5 or a lens or whatever. I decided to upgrade to a z6ii. They also sent me a return slip so it cost nothing to return the z5. I would give Nikon 5 stars on the way they handled this situation. The z6ii came looking like it just came out of a box as a new unit and had zero clicks. I always look for good buys on referbs.
I have purchased several bodies and lenses from th... (show quote)


This is a great story. If every story that has to involve a problem / return ended this way, the collective reputations of the many camera and lens manufacturers would be much higher.

Reply
 
 
Feb 25, 2023 09:27:19   #
ScottWardwell Loc: Maine
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
You run the refurb department with pre-printed checklists of visual inspection points and the necessary physical re-packaging materials. Now you just need a low-cost team to execute the checklist procedures focused on physically handling the equipment to the bare minimum, just repackaging and quickly adding into the 'refurb' inventory stock. Now, you recover some of the costs of this extra staff when reselling virtually new equipment at a lower cost (and lower profit margin).

BTW: nice dance around all the specifics of how you'd obtain your "thorough" testing equipment for the entire Nikon inventory and the staff needed to test all the returned "refurbed" equipment. Guess your acumen on how to operate this function isn't really there? Just vague assumptions of how it should be ...
You run the refurb department with pre-printed che... (show quote)


So do you have some specific knowledge about how NikonUSA is structured or are you just putting forth your version of "vague assumptions"? I have worked in various manufacturing business models from Coke bottling to light and heavy construction (Texas refinery) to food manufacturing as an accountant dealing with physical plant costs. Nikon has been at this over 100 years. Their employees are highly trained. They are not farming this stuff out to slave labor.

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Feb 25, 2023 09:33:10   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
ScottWardwell wrote:
So do you have some specific knowledge about how NikonUSA is structured or are you just putting forth your version of "vague assumptions"? I have worked in various manufacturing business models from Coke bottling to light and heavy construction (Texas refinery) to food manufacturing as an accountant dealing with physical plant costs. Nikon has been at this over 100 years. Their employees are highly trained. They are not farming this stuff out to slave labor.


One would think with your quoted resume, you'd have a better understanding of the details / unknowns of the discussion. Is any of that onsite manufacturing experience post 2000? In fully automated assembly plants? High-tech like computers, cameras, similar? Regarding relevant experience, did you read the other specific replies to your assumed refurb operations? Did you mentally run a spreadsheet of the costs for the equipment and people needed for your assumed thorough testing of Nikon's roster of current models to be refurbished?

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Feb 25, 2023 09:34:30   #
ScottWardwell Loc: Maine
 
billnikon wrote:
It simply does not happy that way. I worked for Nikon for years. Returned items are looked at to make sure they work. End of story. They are not put through any testing by techs. It is a completely different division.
It is an unban myth to think they are sent to the factory and tested.
Like I said, 99.9999% of all refurbs are remorse buyers, there is NOTHING wrong with 99.999999999999% of returns.
To think that their was something wrong with refurbs is just not correct.


Bill I think you are parsing my words a little too fine. Picking it up and seeing if it the focus is smooth or the aperture functions or the glass is clean is testing. Camera bodies can go out of calibration. Are you saying that if a body came in and had an outdated firmware, they would not update it? They did mine with the LCD swap.

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Feb 25, 2023 09:35:21   #
John Maher Loc: Northern Virginia
 
grandpaw wrote:
I am looking at a Z 24-70 2.8 lens from Nikon and wanted to get your thoughts on buying refurbished. I have never bought any items that were refurbished and would like some input whether positive or negative. Thanks, Grandpaw


IMHO Quality Control for "refurbished" may be more stringent than normal because reputable manufacturers of anything don't want to see it again.

Some items were returned because they were not what the buyer wanted but cannot be resold as "new". Others had some defect and were returned under warranty. Either way, the manufacturer does not want the cost of turning it around a second time.

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