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Look what they are teaching our children!
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Dec 6, 2012 12:51:44   #
English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL
 
Capitalism: Me first! (Greed)
Communism: Me first! (Elite power)
Socialism: Me first! (waiting on line for the dole)
Dictatorship: Me first! (To kill you)
Monarchy: Me first! (To control everything)
Theocracy: Me first! (The rest of the world can die)
Democracy: Me first! (waiting on line for power)

Not one system has ever offered a solution for anything as we are ALL selfish righteous bastards interested only in one thing: self preservation.

I am disgusted by most of the opinions presented here are all display your own failings (and mine). Instead of having a discussion on what is true and false on the 'propaganda video' we all dig tranches like the poor folks in WWI, arm ourselves with antiquated principles that were never right and fight to the death with poisoned concepts not wanting to see that what is at stake is not us but our children future. At no point in the human history have we sank so low as to endanger the kids. I am not even speaking of the video.

I happen to agree with the presentation, simplistic, I'll admit, but very real. Trouble is no one here will ever admit that while inflammatory at I do not know how many level it reflects ALL the population attitude.

For the last two decades the GOP has presented itself as an enemy of progress the result being that the democrats seem reasonable. Because of that the GOP as party needs to die and replaced by something that is relevant to a modern world.

I spit on the religious right as they are no following their own principles that according to their so-called god is NOT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE AFFAIRS OF MEN (read your freaking new testament folks). I spit on anyone who supports a party that would turn the US into a latent theocracy. We all know what it means to have 'religious' criminals in charge. Just look at Europe during the middle ages, the renaissance and the pre-industrial era. Now more than ever, we see what theocracy and religion does in the middle east and the rest of of the Muslim world.

Anyone who wants this in the US is not fit to vote.

My party consists one person: ME. I am responsible for what I do, what I say, how I say it and the conflict it creates. My decisions, actions are mine, I assume all.

The real questions are: Are you doing the same? Are you taking responsibility for everything you? If you answer no to either of the question, piss off, you are nothing to me.

Reply
Dec 6, 2012 13:03:42   #
silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.
 
English_Wolf wrote:
Capitalism: Me first! (Greed)
Communism: Me first! (Elite power)
Socialism: Me first! (waiting on line for the dole)
Dictatorship: Me first! (To kill you)
Monarchy: Me first! (To control everything)
Theocracy: Me first! (The rest of the world can die)
Democracy: Me first! (waiting on line for power)

Not one system has ever offered a solution for anything as we are ALL selfish righteous bastards interested only in one thing: self preservation.

I am disgusted by most of the opinions presented here are all display your own failings (and mine). Instead of having a discussion on what is true and false on the 'propaganda video' we all dig tranches like the poor folks in WWI, arm ourselves with antiquated principles that were never right and fight to the death with poisoned concepts not wanting to see that what is at stake is not us but our children future. At no point in the human history have we sank so low as to endanger the kids. I am not even speaking of the video.

I happen to agree with the presentation, simplistic, I'll admit, but very real. Trouble is no one here will ever admit that while inflammatory at I do not know how many level it reflects ALL the population attitude.

For the last two decades the GOP has presented itself as an enemy of progress the result being that the democrats seem reasonable. Because of that the GOP as party needs to die and replaced by something that is relevant to a modern world.

I spit on the religious right as they are no following their own principles that according to their so-called god is NOT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE AFFAIRS OF MEN (read your freaking new testament folks). I spit on anyone who supports a party that would turn the US into a latent theocracy. We all know what it means to have 'religious' criminals in charge. Just look at Europe during the middle ages, the renaissance and the pre-industrial era. Now more than ever, we see what theocracy and religion does in the middle east and the rest of of the Muslim world.

Anyone who wants this in the US is not fit to vote.

My party consists one person: ME. I am responsible for what I do, what I say, how I say it and the conflict it creates. My decisions, actions are mine, I assume all.

The real questions are: Are you doing the same? Are you taking responsibility for everything you? If you answer no to either of the question, piss off, you are nothing to me.
Capitalism: Me first! (Greed) br Communism: Me fir... (show quote)


I love it! Keep up the clear thinking.

Reply
Dec 6, 2012 18:24:54   #
JBTaylor Loc: In hiding again
 
PNagy wrote:
JBTaylor wrote:
Blurryeyed wrote:
PNagy wrote:


The nonsense is blaming the market for current conditions. It is just as I said; corporate greed. No market would demand low prices at the cost of unemployment, yet that is what corporate America does; exports jobs to pursue short term profits that have deleterious implications, even for those who temporarily profit. When the jobs are exported, increasing number of unemployed people cannot afford even the lower prices.


What seems to be overlooked is that once the trade barriers were knocked down and imports began arriving in this country that had comparative quality to US manufactured goods and products at a much greater savings to the consumer, corporations had to move jobs overseas to remain competitive and survive... It seems to me that when I was a kid there were a lot of brand name electronics and appliances that were manufactured in this country that simply went out of business or were forced their manufacturing overseas in order to survive... Whatever happened to RCA, Phillips, Magnavox and the others who were the leaders in household electronics? They either adapted or they simply went out of business. Going out of business was not a management decision, rather it was a decision that was made at cash registers all across American as American consumers made the decision to take advantage of significant savings by purchasing foreign manufactured goods and products. There is no management decision that can be made that will influence consumers at the point of purchase to spend more money for goods produced in the US, especially when those savings could be measured in the hundreds of dollars on purchases of products that were and continue to be in the highest demand such as TV's, Computers, and household appliances.

American business adapted, they began manufacturing overseas, and they moved on, they run a business, if you expect them to mop and bitch and whine about the decisions that they made to retain their competitiveness in the market place to insure their future and profitability, well sorry that is not how business works. They move on and grow their business in a manner that best represents the interest of their customers and shareholders..... But make no mistake, the American consumer and their purchasing habits strongly influenced the exportation of many jobs overseas in the same manner that the purchasing habits of Walmart customers have destroyed small businesses and retailers especially in small towns.

You can not simply blame corporations, Americans have to hold themselves to account for the roles that most of us have also played in the outsourcing of jobs.

So we are where we are, like I said earlier we can either sit around and mop about it, you can make demands of corporations that will only lead to their demise, you can somehow be foolish enough to think that somehow the government is going to legislate a prosperous economy, or maybe you should be looking for government to find ways to partner with the business community to create the conditions that will help US business improve their competitiveness in the world market place and regain our innovative edge... Destroying productive capital and turning those assets into food stamps and govt assistance is not going to insure a better future for our children.
quote=PNagy br br The nonsense is blaming the m... (show quote)


Well said! Unfortunately, finding a scapegoat is more attractive than taking responsibility.
quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br br The nonsens... (show quote)


The "blame" narrative is the right wing mantra against anyone who has put the spotlight on their greedy fleecing of everyone else. It is as vapid a ploy as trying to shame into silence all critics of implausible official explanations of events with the dreaded charge "conspiracy theorist." In fact, the establishment merely wants its own hare brained conspiracy theory to supplant one that actually makes sense. Here, you prefer that everyone be shamed into retracting their blame of the real culprits so that they can blame themselves instead for conditions they did not create and do not have the power to influence.

In America the plutocracy has all the political power via unlimited amounts of money they are allowed to pour into political ends, yet you guys want us to pretend with you that the people with no access to the politicians are in fact the ones who determine economic developments. Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.
quote=JBTaylor quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br... (show quote)


My point isn't so much to let the businesses off the hook as it is to point out that we all play a part in getting the country to where it is today. Interesting that you mention conspiracy theories. The concept that all that is wrong or unjust in our world must be due to a few rich evil puppeteers does seem to fill a human need that is served by conspiracy theories. Is it the modern version of blaming the volcano gods when the weather turns unfriendly? Where do you get your instructions from the puppeteers? I make my own choices for better or worse.

It is also a way to evade responsibility for our actions. Everybody is a victim these days.

And no, it is not just "the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans" though surely some knew exactly what they were doing and others didn't want to know, preferring to take what was offered to them by an unscrupulous banker who didn't care if they could repay the debt because he's going to pawn it off on some unsuspecting investor. A screw up that big had so many factors and players that it is ridiculous to lay the blame on just one class of people because you don't like them. And to not lay some of the blame on the politicians and interest groups that pressured the banks into making bad loans is dishonest. Perhaps the "poor" are not as powerless as you think then they have votes to give to the politicians that promise them free stuff.

But back to Blurryeyed's point. How can you possibly NOT see consumers purchasing decisions affecting what happens to companies and their employees and decisions that they take to survive or thrive?

Reply
 
 
Dec 6, 2012 18:47:59   #
JBTaylor Loc: In hiding again
 
English_Wolf wrote:
Capitalism: Me first! (Greed)
Communism: Me first! (Elite power)
Socialism: Me first! (waiting on line for the dole)
Dictatorship: Me first! (To kill you)
Monarchy: Me first! (To control everything)
Theocracy: Me first! (The rest of the world can die)
Democracy: Me first! (waiting on line for power)

Not one system has ever offered a solution for anything as we are ALL selfish righteous bastards interested only in one thing: self preservation.

I am disgusted by most of the opinions presented here are all display your own failings (and mine). Instead of having a discussion on what is true and false on the 'propaganda video' we all dig tranches like the poor folks in WWI, arm ourselves with antiquated principles that were never right and fight to the death with poisoned concepts not wanting to see that what is at stake is not us but our children future. At no point in the human history have we sank so low as to endanger the kids. I am not even speaking of the video.

I happen to agree with the presentation, simplistic, I'll admit, but very real. Trouble is no one here will ever admit that while inflammatory at I do not know how many level it reflects ALL the population attitude.

For the last two decades the GOP has presented itself as an enemy of progress the result being that the democrats seem reasonable. Because of that the GOP as party needs to die and replaced by something that is relevant to a modern world.

I spit on the religious right as they are no following their own principles that according to their so-called god is NOT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE AFFAIRS OF MEN (read your freaking new testament folks). I spit on anyone who supports a party that would turn the US into a latent theocracy. We all know what it means to have 'religious' criminals in charge. Just look at Europe during the middle ages, the renaissance and the pre-industrial era. Now more than ever, we see what theocracy and religion does in the middle east and the rest of of the Muslim world.

Anyone who wants this in the US is not fit to vote.

My party consists one person: ME. I am responsible for what I do, what I say, how I say it and the conflict it creates. My decisions, actions are mine, I assume all.

The real questions are: Are you doing the same? Are you taking responsibility for everything you? If you answer no to either of the question, piss off, you are nothing to me.
Capitalism: Me first! (Greed) br Communism: Me fir... (show quote)


You raise some good points, particularly regarding personal responsibility, and then run off on a tangent demonizing your villains of choice which I am not sure how relate to what I thought was a discussion primarily of economics.

And what does this theocracy that you are concerned about look like? Are you talking about the US? Has the US previously been a theocracy in your judgement?

Reply
Dec 6, 2012 20:37:59   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
JBTaylor wrote:
PNagy wrote:
JBTaylor wrote:
Blurryeyed wrote:
PNagy wrote:


The nonsense is blaming the market for current conditions. It is just as I said; corporate greed. No market would demand low prices at the cost of unemployment, yet that is what corporate America does; exports jobs to pursue short term profits that have deleterious implications, even for those who temporarily profit. When the jobs are exported, increasing number of unemployed people cannot afford even the lower prices.


What seems to be overlooked is that once the trade barriers were knocked down and imports began arriving in this country that had comparative quality to US manufactured goods and products at a much greater savings to the consumer, corporations had to move jobs overseas to remain competitive and survive... It seems to me that when I was a kid there were a lot of brand name electronics and appliances that were manufactured in this country that simply went out of business or were forced their manufacturing overseas in order to survive... Whatever happened to RCA, Phillips, Magnavox and the others who were the leaders in household electronics? They either adapted or they simply went out of business. Going out of business was not a management decision, rather it was a decision that was made at cash registers all across American as American consumers made the decision to take advantage of significant savings by purchasing foreign manufactured goods and products. There is no management decision that can be made that will influence consumers at the point of purchase to spend more money for goods produced in the US, especially when those savings could be measured in the hundreds of dollars on purchases of products that were and continue to be in the highest demand such as TV's, Computers, and household appliances.

American business adapted, they began manufacturing overseas, and they moved on, they run a business, if you expect them to mop and bitch and whine about the decisions that they made to retain their competitiveness in the market place to insure their future and profitability, well sorry that is not how business works. They move on and grow their business in a manner that best represents the interest of their customers and shareholders..... But make no mistake, the American consumer and their purchasing habits strongly influenced the exportation of many jobs overseas in the same manner that the purchasing habits of Walmart customers have destroyed small businesses and retailers especially in small towns.

You can not simply blame corporations, Americans have to hold themselves to account for the roles that most of us have also played in the outsourcing of jobs.

So we are where we are, like I said earlier we can either sit around and mop about it, you can make demands of corporations that will only lead to their demise, you can somehow be foolish enough to think that somehow the government is going to legislate a prosperous economy, or maybe you should be looking for government to find ways to partner with the business community to create the conditions that will help US business improve their competitiveness in the world market place and regain our innovative edge... Destroying productive capital and turning those assets into food stamps and govt assistance is not going to insure a better future for our children.
quote=PNagy br br The nonsense is blaming the m... (show quote)


Well said! Unfortunately, finding a scapegoat is more attractive than taking responsibility.
quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br br The nonsens... (show quote)


The "blame" narrative is the right wing mantra against anyone who has put the spotlight on their greedy fleecing of everyone else. It is as vapid a ploy as trying to shame into silence all critics of implausible official explanations of events with the dreaded charge "conspiracy theorist." In fact, the establishment merely wants its own hare brained conspiracy theory to supplant one that actually makes sense. Here, you prefer that everyone be shamed into retracting their blame of the real culprits so that they can blame themselves instead for conditions they did not create and do not have the power to influence.

In America the plutocracy has all the political power via unlimited amounts of money they are allowed to pour into political ends, yet you guys want us to pretend with you that the people with no access to the politicians are in fact the ones who determine economic developments. Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.
quote=JBTaylor quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br... (show quote)


My point isn't so much to let the businesses off the hook as it is to point out that we all play a part in getting the country to where it is today. Interesting that you mention conspiracy theories. The concept that all that is wrong or unjust in our world must be due to a few rich evil puppeteers does seem to fill a human need that is served by conspiracy theories. Is it the modern version of blaming the volcano gods when the weather turns unfriendly? Where do you get your instructions from the puppeteers? I make my own choices for better or worse.

It is also a way to evade responsibility for our actions. Everybody is a victim these days.

And no, it is not just "the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans" though surely some knew exactly what they were doing and others didn't want to know, preferring to take what was offered to them by an unscrupulous banker who didn't care if they could repay the debt because he's going to pawn it off on some unsuspecting investor. A screw up that big had so many factors and players that it is ridiculous to lay the blame on just one class of people because you don't like them. And to not lay some of the blame on the politicians and interest groups that pressured the banks into making bad loans is dishonest. Perhaps the "poor" are not as powerless as you think then they have votes to give to the politicians that promise them free stuff.

But back to Blurryeyed's point. How can you possibly NOT see consumers purchasing decisions affecting what happens to companies and their employees and decisions that they take to survive or thrive?
quote=PNagy quote=JBTaylor quote=Blurryeyed qu... (show quote)


Those who have the power make decisions, plain and simple. I don't need to engage in (by your view) a simplistic slinging of mantras given to me by my puppet masters to see that. The idea that those without power share equally in policy making is either stupid, or an outright lie. People do not spend billions to contra politicians only to be outflanked by those who cannot afford to give anything. They donate in order to receive trillions back, and that comes from those who cannot afford to donate. Now let this compelling logic bounce of your skull right before you go back to genuflecting before Bleary.

Reply
Dec 6, 2012 20:43:39   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
PNagy wrote:
JBTaylor wrote:
PNagy wrote:
JBTaylor wrote:
Blurryeyed wrote:
PNagy wrote:


The nonsense is blaming the market for current conditions. It is just as I said; corporate greed. No market would demand low prices at the cost of unemployment, yet that is what corporate America does; exports jobs to pursue short term profits that have deleterious implications, even for those who temporarily profit. When the jobs are exported, increasing number of unemployed people cannot afford even the lower prices.




What seems to be overlooked is that once the trade barriers were knocked down and imports began arriving in this country that had comparative quality to US manufactured goods and products at a much greater savings to the consumer, corporations had to move jobs overseas to remain competitive and survive... It seems to me that when I was a kid there were a lot of brand name electronics and appliances that were manufactured in this country that simply went out of business or were forced their manufacturing overseas in order to survive... Whatever happened to RCA, Phillips, Magnavox and the others who were the leaders in household electronics? They either adapted or they simply went out of business. Going out of business was not a management decision, rather it was a decision that was made at cash registers all across American as American consumers made the decision to take advantage of significant savings by purchasing foreign manufactured goods and products. There is no management decision that can be made that will influence consumers at the point of purchase to spend more money for goods produced in the US, especially when those savings could be measured in the hundreds of dollars on purchases of products that were and continue to be in the highest demand such as TV's, Computers, and household appliances.

American business adapted, they began manufacturing overseas, and they moved on, they run a business, if you expect them to mop and bitch and whine about the decisions that they made to retain their competitiveness in the market place to insure their future and profitability, well sorry that is not how business works. They move on and grow their business in a manner that best represents the interest of their customers and shareholders..... But make no mistake, the American consumer and their purchasing habits strongly influenced the exportation of many jobs overseas in the same manner that the purchasing habits of Walmart customers have destroyed small businesses and retailers especially in small towns.

You can not simply blame corporations, Americans have to hold themselves to account for the roles that most of us have also played in the outsourcing of jobs.

So we are where we are, like I said earlier we can either sit around and mop about it, you can make demands of corporations that will only lead to their demise, you can somehow be foolish enough to think that somehow the government is going to legislate a prosperous economy, or maybe you should be looking for government to find ways to partner with the business community to create the conditions that will help US business improve their competitiveness in the world market place and regain our innovative edge... Destroying productive capital and turning those assets into food stamps and govt assistance is not going to insure a better future for our children.
quote=PNagy br br The nonsense is blaming the m... (show quote)


Well said! Unfortunately, finding a scapegoat is more attractive than taking responsibility.
quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br br The nonsens... (show quote)


The "blame" narrative is the right wing mantra against anyone who has put the spotlight on their greedy fleecing of everyone else. It is as vapid a ploy as trying to shame into silence all critics of implausible official explanations of events with the dreaded charge "conspiracy theorist." In fact, the establishment merely wants its own hare brained conspiracy theory to supplant one that actually makes sense. Here, you prefer that everyone be shamed into retracting their blame of the real culprits so that they can blame themselves instead for conditions they did not create and do not have the power to influence.

In America the plutocracy has all the political power via unlimited amounts of money they are allowed to pour into political ends, yet you guys want us to pretend with you that the people with no access to the politicians are in fact the ones who determine economic developments. Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.
quote=JBTaylor quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br... (show quote)


My point isn't so much to let the businesses off the hook as it is to point out that we all play a part in getting the country to where it is today. Interesting that you mention conspiracy theories. The concept that all that is wrong or unjust in our world must be due to a few rich evil puppeteers does seem to fill a human need that is served by conspiracy theories. Is it the modern version of blaming the volcano gods when the weather turns unfriendly? Where do you get your instructions from the puppeteers? I make my own choices for better or worse.

It is also a way to evade responsibility for our actions. Everybody is a victim these days.

And no, it is not just "the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans" though surely some knew exactly what they were doing and others didn't want to know, preferring to take what was offered to them by an unscrupulous banker who didn't care if they could repay the debt because he's going to pawn it off on some unsuspecting investor. A screw up that big had so many factors and players that it is ridiculous to lay the blame on just one class of people because you don't like them. And to not lay some of the blame on the politicians and interest groups that pressured the banks into making bad loans is dishonest. Perhaps the "poor" are not as powerless as you think then they have votes to give to the politicians that promise them free stuff.

But back to Blurryeyed's point. How can you possibly NOT see consumers purchasing decisions affecting what happens to companies and their employees and decisions that they take to survive or thrive?
quote=PNagy quote=JBTaylor quote=Blurryeyed qu... (show quote)


Those who have the power make decisions, plain and simple. I don't need to engage in (by your view) a simplistic slinging of mantras given to me by my puppet masters to see that. The idea that those without power share equally in policy making is either stupid, or an outright lie. People do not spend billions to contra politicians only to be outflanked by those who cannot afford to give anything. They donate in order to receive trillions back, and that comes from those who cannot afford to donate. Now let this compelling logic bounce of your skull right before you go back to genuflecting before Bleary.
quote=JBTaylor quote=PNagy quote=JBTaylor quot... (show quote)


Nice, a bit of truth mixed in with a lot of hyperbole, I kinda like it.

Reply
Dec 6, 2012 21:33:30   #
JBTaylor Loc: In hiding again
 
PNagy wrote:
JBTaylor wrote:
PNagy wrote:
JBTaylor wrote:
Blurryeyed wrote:
PNagy wrote:


The nonsense is blaming the market for current conditions. It is just as I said; corporate greed. No market would demand low prices at the cost of unemployment, yet that is what corporate America does; exports jobs to pursue short term profits that have deleterious implications, even for those who temporarily profit. When the jobs are exported, increasing number of unemployed people cannot afford even the lower prices.


What seems to be overlooked is that once the trade barriers were knocked down and imports began arriving in this country that had comparative quality to US manufactured goods and products at a much greater savings to the consumer, corporations had to move jobs overseas to remain competitive and survive... It seems to me that when I was a kid there were a lot of brand name electronics and appliances that were manufactured in this country that simply went out of business or were forced their manufacturing overseas in order to survive... Whatever happened to RCA, Phillips, Magnavox and the others who were the leaders in household electronics? They either adapted or they simply went out of business. Going out of business was not a management decision, rather it was a decision that was made at cash registers all across American as American consumers made the decision to take advantage of significant savings by purchasing foreign manufactured goods and products. There is no management decision that can be made that will influence consumers at the point of purchase to spend more money for goods produced in the US, especially when those savings could be measured in the hundreds of dollars on purchases of products that were and continue to be in the highest demand such as TV's, Computers, and household appliances.

American business adapted, they began manufacturing overseas, and they moved on, they run a business, if you expect them to mop and bitch and whine about the decisions that they made to retain their competitiveness in the market place to insure their future and profitability, well sorry that is not how business works. They move on and grow their business in a manner that best represents the interest of their customers and shareholders..... But make no mistake, the American consumer and their purchasing habits strongly influenced the exportation of many jobs overseas in the same manner that the purchasing habits of Walmart customers have destroyed small businesses and retailers especially in small towns.

You can not simply blame corporations, Americans have to hold themselves to account for the roles that most of us have also played in the outsourcing of jobs.

So we are where we are, like I said earlier we can either sit around and mop about it, you can make demands of corporations that will only lead to their demise, you can somehow be foolish enough to think that somehow the government is going to legislate a prosperous economy, or maybe you should be looking for government to find ways to partner with the business community to create the conditions that will help US business improve their competitiveness in the world market place and regain our innovative edge... Destroying productive capital and turning those assets into food stamps and govt assistance is not going to insure a better future for our children.
quote=PNagy br br The nonsense is blaming the m... (show quote)


Well said! Unfortunately, finding a scapegoat is more attractive than taking responsibility.
quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br br The nonsens... (show quote)


The "blame" narrative is the right wing mantra against anyone who has put the spotlight on their greedy fleecing of everyone else. It is as vapid a ploy as trying to shame into silence all critics of implausible official explanations of events with the dreaded charge "conspiracy theorist." In fact, the establishment merely wants its own hare brained conspiracy theory to supplant one that actually makes sense. Here, you prefer that everyone be shamed into retracting their blame of the real culprits so that they can blame themselves instead for conditions they did not create and do not have the power to influence.

In America the plutocracy has all the political power via unlimited amounts of money they are allowed to pour into political ends, yet you guys want us to pretend with you that the people with no access to the politicians are in fact the ones who determine economic developments. Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.
quote=JBTaylor quote=Blurryeyed quote=PNagy br... (show quote)


My point isn't so much to let the businesses off the hook as it is to point out that we all play a part in getting the country to where it is today. Interesting that you mention conspiracy theories. The concept that all that is wrong or unjust in our world must be due to a few rich evil puppeteers does seem to fill a human need that is served by conspiracy theories. Is it the modern version of blaming the volcano gods when the weather turns unfriendly? Where do you get your instructions from the puppeteers? I make my own choices for better or worse.

It is also a way to evade responsibility for our actions. Everybody is a victim these days.

And no, it is not just "the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans" though surely some knew exactly what they were doing and others didn't want to know, preferring to take what was offered to them by an unscrupulous banker who didn't care if they could repay the debt because he's going to pawn it off on some unsuspecting investor. A screw up that big had so many factors and players that it is ridiculous to lay the blame on just one class of people because you don't like them. And to not lay some of the blame on the politicians and interest groups that pressured the banks into making bad loans is dishonest. Perhaps the "poor" are not as powerless as you think then they have votes to give to the politicians that promise them free stuff.

But back to Blurryeyed's point. How can you possibly NOT see consumers purchasing decisions affecting what happens to companies and their employees and decisions that they take to survive or thrive?
quote=PNagy quote=JBTaylor quote=Blurryeyed qu... (show quote)


Those who have the power make decisions, plain and simple. I don't need to engage in (by your view) a simplistic slinging of mantras given to me by my puppet masters to see that. The idea that those without power share equally in policy making is either stupid, or an outright lie. People do not spend billions to contra politicians only to be outflanked by those who cannot afford to give anything. They donate in order to receive trillions back, and that comes from those who cannot afford to donate. Now let this compelling logic bounce of your skull right before you go back to genuflecting before Bleary.
quote=JBTaylor quote=PNagy quote=JBTaylor quot... (show quote)


I think my reference to puppet masters has been misunderstood and perhaps I misunderstood you.

Actually it appears that we have descended into the typical cycle of ignoring most of what each other actually says and putting words in each others mouths. Pointless.

Good night.

Reply
 
 
Dec 6, 2012 23:44:18   #
Lazy Old Coot Loc: Gainesville, Florida
 
Come on PNagy, The root of the subprime fiasco was the Community Regeneration Act (I think that's what it was called) that was passed into law by the Carter administration. The theory was that if the Banks would lower their qualifications for a mortgage loan more minorities would be able to access the American dream of home ownership, but the banks didn't want to risk granting a loan to someone with poor qualifications. The CRA said OK, the government will guarantee the loan and you will have no risk. To some it seemed like a workable idea and through the Regan and GHW Bush administrations it rocked along under the media radar. When Clinton took office the minorities, mostly the blacks, complained they weren't able to get the mortgages because their communities were being "Redlined" by the banks. The black politicians demanded the banks "abandon those discriminatory practices" and threatened them with legal consequences if they didn't. The banks were in effect forced to grant all those mortgages to people, even though they knew they would eventually default and face foreclosure. They had no choice, Congress forced them into it. You must know this is true. Unless you were living in a cave somewhere you have to remember the big stink about "Red Lining" and Congress laying down the law to the mortgage lenders. ........ Coot

,Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.[/quote]

Reply
Dec 7, 2012 03:55:17   #
ElizabethM Loc: san francisco, ca
 
Check out the San Francisco Chronicle about the California federation of teachers video on 12/6-go online to SFGate.com

Reply
Dec 7, 2012 08:30:10   #
JBTaylor Loc: In hiding again
 
ElizabethM wrote:
Check out the San Francisco Chronicle about the California federation of teachers video on 12/6-go online to SFGate.com


Thank you!

Here is the link http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/Crass-warfare-by-teachers-organization-4095004.php#ixzz2EN8pWVRv

Even a San Francisco newspaper sees through it.
Quote:
Hypocrisy, anyone? It accused the rich of buying elections: "They spent so much money on politics, they elected people who like what they liked" - translated as tax cuts for them and less spending on schools and roads. Never mind that teacher unions are far and away the biggest contributor to California campaigns and that their return on investment in 2012 included defeat of a measure (SB1530) to streamline the process for firing teachers in cases involving sex, drugs or violence against students.

The video accuses the rich of breeding public contempt for the mythical "bad teachers." Actually, with garbage like this, their own unions are doing their part to lose friends and alienate people.
Hypocrisy, anyone? It accused the rich of buying e... (show quote)

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Dec 7, 2012 14:45:32   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Lazy Old Coot wrote:
Come on PNagy, The root of the subprime fiasco was the Community Regeneration Act (I think that's what it was called) that was passed into law by the Carter administration. The theory was that if the Banks would lower their qualifications for a mortgage loan more minorities would be able to access the American dream of home ownership, but the banks didn't want to risk granting a loan to someone with poor qualifications. The CRA said OK, the government will guarantee the loan and you will have no risk. To some it seemed like a workable idea and through the Regan and GHW Bush administrations it rocked along under the media radar. When Clinton took office the minorities, mostly the blacks, complained they weren't able to get the mortgages because their communities were being "Redlined" by the banks. The black politicians demanded the banks "abandon those discriminatory practices" and threatened them with legal consequences if they didn't. The banks were in effect forced to grant all those mortgages to people, even though they knew they would eventually default and face foreclosure. They had no choice, Congress forced them into it. You must know this is true. Unless you were living in a cave somewhere you have to remember the big stink about "Red Lining" and Congress laying down the law to the mortgage lenders. ........ Coot

,Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.
Come on PNagy, The root of the subprime fiasco was... (show quote)
[/quote]

Blaming the Community Regeneration Act is knee-jerk Bankster apology. It affected only 11% of the subprime loans and performed better than most.

Reply
 
 
Dec 7, 2012 16:30:06   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
PNagy wrote:
Lazy Old Coot wrote:
Come on PNagy, The root of the subprime fiasco was the Community Regeneration Act (I think that's what it was called) that was passed into law by the Carter administration. The theory was that if the Banks would lower their qualifications for a mortgage loan more minorities would be able to access the American dream of home ownership, but the banks didn't want to risk granting a loan to someone with poor qualifications. The CRA said OK, the government will guarantee the loan and you will have no risk. To some it seemed like a workable idea and through the Regan and GHW Bush administrations it rocked along under the media radar. When Clinton took office the minorities, mostly the blacks, complained they weren't able to get the mortgages because their communities were being "Redlined" by the banks. The black politicians demanded the banks "abandon those discriminatory practices" and threatened them with legal consequences if they didn't. The banks were in effect forced to grant all those mortgages to people, even though they knew they would eventually default and face foreclosure. They had no choice, Congress forced them into it. You must know this is true. Unless you were living in a cave somewhere you have to remember the big stink about "Red Lining" and Congress laying down the law to the mortgage lenders. ........ Coot

,Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.
Come on PNagy, The root of the subprime fiasco was... (show quote)


Blaming the Community Regeneration Act is knee-jerk Bankster apology. It affected only 11% of the subprime loans and performed better than most.
quote=Lazy Old Coot Come on PNagy, The root of th... (show quote)


Actually it was the Community Reinvestment Act coupled with the repeal of Glass Steagal that laid the foundation for the crisis.... Then came Bush's dream of home ownership for the poor as a way of investing in the poor to help them improve their lot in life tossed in was strong democratic support to the extent that as early as 2004-2005 when republican senators and congressmen began questioning Fanny and Freddie's portfolios the dems decried such activity as a "Witch Hunt". There is no doubt that the greed of Wall Street and Mortgage lenders along with insurance companies such as AIG also played a significant role, but the fact is that this was a bipartisan F up that was started with quotas being placed on low income loans and regulatory pressure placed on lenders by regulators who were increasingly lessening the requirements for income and income verification...

Please let's not pretend that this was not caused by DC and by both parties in DC and fueled by their biggest partners on Wall Streets greed!

Of course no one wants you to understand what actually happened, nor does either party want you to understand their deep ties to wall street.

Reply
Dec 7, 2012 23:46:04   #
BillHenry
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
PNagy wrote:
Lazy Old Coot wrote:
Come on PNagy, The root of the subprime fiasco was the Community Regeneration Act (I think that's what it was called) that was passed into law by the Carter administration. The theory was that if the Banks would lower their qualifications for a mortgage loan more minorities would be able to access the American dream of home ownership, but the banks didn't want to risk granting a loan to someone with poor qualifications. The CRA said OK, the government will guarantee the loan and you will have no risk. To some it seemed like a workable idea and through the Regan and GHW Bush administrations it rocked along under the media radar. When Clinton took office the minorities, mostly the blacks, complained they weren't able to get the mortgages because their communities were being "Redlined" by the banks. The black politicians demanded the banks "abandon those discriminatory practices" and threatened them with legal consequences if they didn't. The banks were in effect forced to grant all those mortgages to people, even though they knew they would eventually default and face foreclosure. They had no choice, Congress forced them into it. You must know this is true. Unless you were living in a cave somewhere you have to remember the big stink about "Red Lining" and Congress laying down the law to the mortgage lenders. ........ Coot

,Yeah, and the mendacious poor duped the banksters into giving them subprime loans, thus bringing down the entire industry. The best part of all this is that you can say it with a straight face. You should be on the Rush Limbaugh Comedy Show.
Come on PNagy, The root of the subprime fiasco was... (show quote)


Blaming the Community Regeneration Act is knee-jerk Bankster apology. It affected only 11% of the subprime loans and performed better than most.
quote=Lazy Old Coot Come on PNagy, The root of th... (show quote)


Actually it was the Community Reinvestment Act coupled with the repeal of Glass Steagal that laid the foundation for the crisis.... Then came Bush's dream of home ownership for the poor as a way of investing in the poor to help them improve their lot in life tossed in was strong democratic support to the extent that as early as 2004-2005 when republican senators and congressmen began questioning Fanny and Freddie's portfolios the dems decried such activity as a "Witch Hunt". There is no doubt that the greed of Wall Street and Mortgage lenders along with insurance companies such as AIG also played a significant role, but the fact is that this was a bipartisan F up that was started with quotas being placed on low income loans and regulatory pressure placed on lenders by regulators who were increasingly lessening the requirements for income and income verification...

Please let's not pretend that this was not caused by DC and by both parties in DC and fueled by their biggest partners on Wall Streets greed!

Of course no one wants you to understand what actually happened, nor does either party want you to understand their deep ties to wall street.
quote=PNagy quote=Lazy Old Coot Come on PNagy, T... (show quote)


Hip, hip, hooray! Hip, hip, hooray! Hip, hip, hooray!

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