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For beginners, M or AUTO?
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Sep 22, 2022 08:23:04   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
You are what your exposure mode says you are.

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Sep 22, 2022 08:24:19   #
BebuLamar
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Really?


Yes M is easiest although it takes time. It's the simplest mode and requires less knowledge than other modes. I don't mean not using the other modes but I mean you must understand how those modes work before you use them. M mode is easiest to understand not taxing your brain power only taxing your muscle a bit to turn the controls manually.

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Sep 22, 2022 08:26:09   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
camerapapi wrote:
"Why not teach how to focus? How to compose? If you can't do those things, who cares what exposure mode you used?"

Paul, basic is basic. Like many others I started with an all manual camera and I began to learn exposure. Once exposure was "mastered" then I concentrated in learning other aspects of photography, like better focus and composition. Depth of field was important for me to learn since a big bulk of what I do is landscape photography.
Digital is a different media than when we were using film with non existing feedback. Exposure many times was more guessing than anything else. Today with digital exposure is a piece of cake and we do not have to guess as much.

In my humble opinion any person learning photography today should start from basics implying should start with the M mode. As exposure, where to focus and some basic composition is learned the student will gain the necessary knowledge to use other exposure modalities easily.
If using a mirrorless camera with its live view then the process is shortened.
"Why not teach how to focus? How to compose? ... (show quote)


Totally disagree. Put it in auto, work on “seeing”, composing, focusing, proper camera control, (stance, camera position, etc.). I gave a camera to a friend with a good eye. She has become very good and has learned how to compose well, how to get a position for the best background, how to pay attention to the light. She did that with a little help from me but mostly on her own by studying her photographs and comparing them to what she likes in other photographs. I doubt she’ll ever shoot other than auto. Let the budding photographer learn the important stuff first. Learning exposure settings is only important when it becomes important. I find most people will learn something better when they can apply it to something they’re trying to achieve. Start off teaching manual mode can turn a budding photographer glassy-eyed and might turn them off from photography. Let them shoot. When they start wondering how they can get that sharp subject with the blurry background or who they can get subject and background both in focus or how they can keep that fast running horse from getting blurry, then they’ll be ready to learn exposure settings.

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Sep 22, 2022 08:28:46   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Architect1776 wrote:
If they start in the m mode and find it frustrating they will quit.
I am amazed at how many here fail to understand this basic concept.
Especially younger people brought up with cellphones do not want the hassle.
P is how they learn then go from there.
All manual does is punish them. If you are matching what the camera meter says you are wasting time.
P allows exploration of shutter and aperture if desired without the drudgery.
While forcing manual might as well force focusing into the manual mix.
That will really thrill the novice and help them get a higher percentage of crappy photos to inspire them to keep going.
If they start in the m mode and find it frustratin... (show quote)

I would start in ‘P’ mode. Especially with Pentax, where the front dial allows them to vary the shutter speed {where then an appropriate aperture will follow} and the rear dial allows them to vary the aperture {where an appropriate shutter speed will follow}. That way they can vary the “triangle” in a way appropriate to the setting will values remain ‘true’ to light conditions.

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Sep 22, 2022 08:31:10   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
gvarner wrote:
I taught my daughters to drive with a stick shift. They had no problem transitioning to an automatic and they can easily drive both. My granddaughter learned how to drive with an automatic. She never got the hang of it when I tried to teach her how to drive a stick shift. I see a lesson here for those who want to teach a newbie.


It is so sad but I have to report that even the very latest model (C8 models) Corvette does not have a stick shift.
However, Corvettes still make me . . . . .
Smile,
JimmyT Sends
Bravo Zulu

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Sep 22, 2022 08:40:00   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
I think it is important to understand the relationship between shutter speed, aperture and ISO, and how each affects the final image (DOF, motion blur, noise). Once that is understood one can make an intelligent choice of which exposure mode to use when

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Sep 22, 2022 08:48:12   #
Jack 13088 Loc: Central NY
 
How about

Understanding Exposure, Fourth Edition: How to Shoot Great Photographs with Any Camera, Peterson?

It is not new. It is called a book. Low Tech. Great illustrations. Works with any camera that has adjustable exposure. Read then practice.

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Sep 22, 2022 08:56:48   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
gvarner wrote:
I taught my daughters to drive with a stick shift. They had no problem transitioning to an automatic and they can easily drive both. My granddaughter learned how to drive with an automatic. She never got the hang of it when I tried to teach her how to drive a stick shift. I see a lesson here for those who want to teach a newbie.


Chicken or the egg first? Stick or Automatic first (I favor stick myself): I've always told those with no or very little camera experience to start with automation/full auto first, then as they start to learn/understand the camera/process/results (via EXIF, etc.) what is happening each time they press the shutter button, to then experiment (a lot) with the other settings/styles....this is premised on them having a real desire to learn, because (opinion) if you don't have a desire to really learn something, you won't....

I always suggest some reading/learning time for the entire process of photography. In my experience frustration with accomplishment (no matter what the frustration is based on) is the biggest killer of new hobbies/pursuits. The "snapshot" artists will float to the top, and a few will try to learn...does not matter whether it is a P&S, DSLR, MILC or phone camera, it is still a camera. For many, advancing beyond "full auto" my not be in the cards, and it may not be a necessity. My $.02

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Sep 22, 2022 09:03:03   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Seems to be quite a diverse range of commentary on my post.

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Sep 22, 2022 09:44:35   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
gvarner wrote:
I taught my daughters to drive with a stick shift. They had no problem transitioning to an automatic and they can easily drive both. My granddaughter learned how to drive with an automatic. She never got the hang of it when I tried to teach her how to drive a stick shift. I see a lesson here for those who want to teach a newbie.


Yes, the "lesson" is to know that the learning style of the younger generation is to take the most direct route to the result — by using the tools you WILL USE, not the tools your grandparents used. You want to bore the bonkers out of kids and quash their thirst for learning? Teach them things they won't need to know or use.

Why do math in your head that you can do much faster with a calculator? (If my classmates and I DIDN'T use a calculator in 1970s college, we were docked a letter grade for being luddites! The professor got it... Solve more problems in less time.)

Why learn to drive a stick when fewer than five percent of new vehicles have one, and you'll probably ride in an electric, self-driving car in most of your later adult years, anyway?

Why own an encyclopedia that is obsolete the day you buy it when you can just ask Siri or Alexa, "What is the capital of Albania?" (Siri just told me, "Tirana is the capital of Albania.")

Why buy a cookbook when hundreds of thousands of recipes are online?

Let's still teach WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, WHY, and HOW, for understanding (and as a check on crappy journalism). But when we insist on mastering an obsolete tool or practice, we miss the point of learning, which is to survive, thrive, adapt, and EVOLVE in the future.

I drove a stick shift from 1971 to 2003. It was a source of stress in Charlotte traffic, so I gave up and bought an automatic. On the way home, I knew I should have done that decades earlier.

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Sep 22, 2022 09:51:26   #
Jeffcs Loc: Myrtle Beach South Carolina
 
First MAKE IT FUN once the bug bites than slowly move to other stuff
If it’s not fun the nubby will simply use the camera/phone and that nice camera you got them will be on a shelf and one day be your back up

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Sep 22, 2022 09:56:27   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
CamB wrote:
Newbies don’t get interested in photography and cameras because they are dying to understand the exposure triangle. I think they are thinking art and vision. Starting with some form of auto is fine. They will learn the rest as their interest grows.
…Cam.


I know a photography instructor who starts with the kids using their smartphones. Once he passes the point of:

"Here's what you can do with light."

"Here's a rudimentary look at composition."

"Here's how you can use color and contrast to move the viewer's eye around the frame."

"Here's a set of basic skills and instincts worth knowing about imaging."

"Here are some examples of perspective, juxtaposition, timing, and other visual elements."

...Then he moves on to adjustable cameras and starts talking about controlling the variables. That's when the training wheels come off and the smartphones stay in pockets or purses. All the time he's talking about results the kids get with their smartphones, he's planting seeds of interest.

"If you could use a longer lens..."

"If you could use a faster shutter speed..."

"If you could expose for the (highlights, shadows, mid-tones, a certain point in the frame)..."

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Sep 22, 2022 09:57:12   #
DE Stein
 
gvarner wrote:
I taught my daughters to drive with a stick shift. They had no problem transitioning to an automatic and they can easily drive both. My granddaughter learned how to drive with an automatic. She never got the hang of it when I tried to teach her how to drive a stick shift. I see a lesson here for those who want to teach a newbie.


allow me to approach this from a very different point of view... I do a lot of counseling with individuals and families. One day a grandmother came to see me, concerned that her grand children (who were living with her at the time) didn’t respect her properly. As we talked, I eventually asked her which she desired more - to be loved, or to be respected? I explained that if she chose ‘loved’, respect would follow. But if she chose ‘respected’, love wasn’t a guarantee. Because she chose ‘love’, her grands adore and deeply respect her, today.

As I was starting in photography, I didn’t have much of a clue what I needed to learn. I couldn’t even read a lens! Composition, light, these were the things I focused on. I first needed to learn to “see”. By happy coincidence I made some ‘good photos’, and that spurred me on to want to learn the “how” and the “why” those pictures worked.

In short, I chose the equivalent of “love” over the value of “respect”, and in the end, I gained both.

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Sep 22, 2022 10:05:40   #
alexol
 
Why do we want to make it so complicated?

Start with the desired end result - a complete well composed image - and work backwards. What has to be learned and done to get to this point.

If an interest develops - no pun intended - to the point that things like exposure triangles etc are relevant, then teach them.

A beautifully composed out-of-focus mis-exposed image is the perfect starting point!

We have some photographers on this site who can produce the most spectacular images, beautifully composed, perfectly timed and ideally exposed.

We also have some who produce the sharpest possible, nicely exposed but dullest most boring pictures imaginable.

Often they use similar equipment; the difference is how they used their "inner eye".

Just my rant for the day...

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Sep 22, 2022 10:10:37   #
whatdat Loc: Del Valle, Tx.
 
CamB wrote:
Newbies don’t get interested in photography and cameras because they are dying to understand the exposure triangle. I think they are thinking art and vision. Starting with some form of auto is fine. They will learn the rest as their interest grows.
…Cam.


👍👍👍

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