Bokeh (Page 3): Its not especially about the aesthetic character of defocused backgrounds. Its about the entire image, and particularly images with plenty of DoF. Its rather nuanced...

Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum

Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register ☰

Bokeh

Page <<first <prev 3 of 11 next> last>>

Jul 26, 2022 19:51:05 #

User ID

Longshadow wrote:

Then what is the "proper" definition?

Notice it said "the aesthetic looks" of the background, not the actual background.
It's conceptual/perceptual.

Its not especially about the aesthetic character of defocused backgrounds. Its about the entire image, and particularly images with plenty of DoF.

Its rather nuanced, therefor its a "pearls before swine" situation around here. Ed S. did touch on part of it just above.

You can also search for Leica designers discussing image characteristics.

Jul 26, 2022 19:58:06 #

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

User ID wrote:

Its not especially about the aesthetic character of defocused backgrounds. Its about the entire image, particularly images with plenty of DoF.

Its rather nuanced, therefor its a "pearls before swine" situation around here. Ed S. did touch on part of it just above.

You might search for Leica designers discussing image characteristics.

So where is the "official" definition in print?

Jul 27, 2022 03:21:32 #

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

charlienow wrote:

I have never heard this word spoken, always written. I always say it is my head as bouquet like in a bouquet of flowers. Is this correct?

Chuck

The term comes from the Japanese word boke (暈け/ボケ), which means "blur" or "haze", resulting in boke-aji (ボケ味), the "blur quality". This is derived as a noun form of the verb bokeru.

In this regard, I pronounce it as near as possible to the way the Japanese pronounce the word.

BO (similar to O of Bottom) and KE (similar to the E of elephant) spoken in a strong halting syntax.

Aside from that, I like that BO-KE removes ambiguity of meaning if spoken or heard as bokay (similar to bouquet of flowers) or Boka (A in Article) which sounds like a weird mispronunciation of our native word for OPEN.

Got to be careful not to say BAKA (both A same as Article) which in our language can mean "Cow" or "Probably" but in Japanese is IDIOT.

But that's just my take on it, I can we very wrong. Tomodachi, gomenassen. Nihonggo ga wakaranai.

Jul 27, 2022 05:26:19 #

User ID

Longshadow wrote:

So where is the "official" definition in print?

See above.

Jul 27, 2022 06:07:08 #

Don, the 2nd son Loc: Crowded Florida

charlienow wrote:

I have never heard this word spoken, always written. I always say it is my head as bouquet like in a bouquet of flowers. Is this correct?

Chuck

Finally! This should always be spelled "bouquet" and pronounced as such instead of making a grunt like an ape choking on a grape. In my opinion.

Ah, now I feel soo much better!

Jul 27, 2022 06:34:50 #

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

charlienow wrote:

I have never heard this word spoken, always written. I always say it is my head as bouquet like in a bouquet of flowers. Is this correct?

Chuck

Original Japanese is "bo ke" with equal emphasis on both syllables, bo as in boat and ke as in kale. It drives me to distraction to hear Americans massacre the pronunciation, making it sound like a place in Florida...

Jul 27, 2022 07:09:16 #

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

rmalarz wrote:

I didn't doubt that you knew what it is. My point was how overrated it is.
--Bob

I beg to differ.

(Download)

Jul 27, 2022 07:26:43 #

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

User ID wrote:

See above.

Ahhh "blur quality".

As in "the aesthetic quality of the blur produced in out-of-focus parts of an image."

The same thing, just more words being used to better define it as opposed to simply using two words to describe it in general...

I'd say the existing definition stands.

Jul 27, 2022 07:46:27 #

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

E.L.. Shapiro wrote:

I have no objection to the single descriptor word usage and I think "Bokeh" is cool!

My observation is that photograher get obsessed, kinda OCD, perhaps overly redundant and repetitive and obsessively concerned with so many terms and theories that they almost forget about simply making images. They will skip or miss great photo ops because they are afraid to stop down for additional depth of field fearing the diffraction gods will banish them from the IQ universe. They are afraid to increase the ISO- surely the noise will totally distroy the resulting image.

New technologies bring enough complex terminology to the craft. Add that all the slang, buzzwords and "in-words for otherwise simple concepts and you have a foreign language.

Old timmers, like me are fine with all this lino- back in the day, we had all kinds of photo-slang and colloquiums, mostof which are seldom or never heard nowadays. They have been replaced by other terms many folds.

All of this can be intimidating to newcomers to the craft and especially newcomers to the forums. Sometimes they are made to feel that the photographyisn an exclusive club with a secret language and if they mispronounce or misuse a term they will be shamed and shunned- cast the edge of the earth and go straight to hell!

"Bokeh" does not simply mean background. A background can be sure what, jet black or just about anything yoycan imagine.

The encyclopedic meaning is good enough for me:

In photography, bokeh (/ˈboʊkə/ BOH-kə or BOH-kay; Japanese: [boke]) is the aesthetic quality of the blur produced in out-of-focus parts of an image. Bokeh has also been defined as "the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light". Differences in lens aberrations and aperture shape cause very different bokeh effects. Some lens designs blur the image in a way that is pleasing to the eye, while others produce distracting or unpleasant blurring ("good" and "bad" bokeh, respectively). Photographers may deliberately use a shallow focus technique to create images with prominent out-of-focus regions, accentuating their lens's bokeh.

Before the term "Bokeh" became popular, I just called it aesthetically pleasing circles of confusion.

Funny thing! "BOKE" IN Japanese MEANS "iDIOT"! Go figure!

idiot noun idiot noun

馬鹿, 白痴, 間抜け, 莫迦, 痴人

I have no objection to the single descriptor word ... (show quote)

Actually it means hazy or blurry or unfocused in Japanese, which of course can describe an "idiot". You can say in Japanese "he is boke", meaning that he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. It does not mean idiot.

Jul 27, 2022 07:51:25 #

CaptainPhoto

Good article. But it's really more than I ever wanted to know about Bokeh.

Jul 27, 2022 08:30:55 #

tedmoore Loc: Philadelphia

https://nofilmschool.com/2017/03/seriously-whats-correct-pronunciation-bokeh

Jul 27, 2022 08:43:56 #

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

kymarto wrote:

Thank you for the correction. That will teach me NOT to trust Mr. Google for translation! I don't go there for medical advice either. My other language, where I actually have fluency is Yiddish. There are many words in that language to describe folks of diminished, strange, or limited mental function. There are nuances ranging from "not too bright" to completely insane. I learned all of them, from my grandparents, firsthand, as a youngster, when I misbehaved or got into trouble at school.

I learned about "selective focus" when I was 12 years old. It's a great technique for isolating a subject on a non-distracting background, creating a myriad of moods, and producing special and unique effects. and telling visual stories."BOKEH"- Just another artist's tool in the toolbox no matter how you pronounce it or it or what it actually or litterely means.

And... LOVELY WORK in your post.

Jul 27, 2022 08:49:14 #

RichieC Loc: Adirondacks

Retired CPO wrote:

It's derived from Japanese...and I believe it's Bo Kay.
I don't think it's over-rated at all. It can make or break a great photo! IMHO.

LOL, I concur.

Like saying depth of field is over-rated, or even B&W photos are over-rated, or anything is over-rated.

A photo with exquisite Bokeh, is exquisite. The ability to capture it nicely and consistently is a talent especially when added to a property framed and captured subject. Post production, like short depth of field, doesn't really compare to in camera captures.

And I was corrected by a professor of photography at Syracuse University and long time professional photographer that I pronounced it wrong- it is indeed correct is as you said, maybe ending with a silent Y or an H sound: ( which I find awkward)

I found this online
"The English word ‘bokeh’ comes from a mixture of two Japanese words (boke and boke-aji) which, roughly translated, refers to: ‘the visual appeal of the out-of-focus areas of a photograph.’ It was first used in the American magazine PHOTO Technique in 1997, which defined the spelling ‘bokeh’ to help readers pronounce it correctly (‘bo-’ as in bone and ‘-keh’ as in Kenneth)."

And this hilarious YouTube video on this very subject - as we are not alone in the search for the correct pronunciation....including across the Japanese island!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Brf2l8Ysc

And this one has a bunch pf photographic pronunciations (I S O is a word, not pronounced as letters) and it ends with bokeh... I think better described than other places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiS6LJ60kzQ

Jul 27, 2022 08:54:27 #

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

I wonder... In certain parts of the country would it be pronounced boh-ker?

Jul 27, 2022 09:16:55 #

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

AndyT wrote:

It depends on who you talk to. I've always pronounced it bo-kah, and I'm comfortable saying it that way.

I have heard it said many times both ways and you are correct. Either way is acceptable to me.

Dennis

Page <<first <prev 3 of 11 next> last>>

If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.

Main Photography Discussion

Home | Latest Digest | Back to Top | All Sections

UglyHedgehog.com - Forum