Composition question
Jul 5, 2022 10:20:39 #
mindzye
Loc: WV
Impressive image. Good camera: or just someone knows what they're doing??
I say that of course tongue in cheek (the camera thing): You know, me being a Draconian Nikonian and all.... :}
My Canonite friends back at the 'club' said they came up with the draconian thing just for me.......gotta' love friends
I say that of course tongue in cheek (the camera thing): You know, me being a Draconian Nikonian and all.... :}
My Canonite friends back at the 'club' said they came up with the draconian thing just for me.......gotta' love friends
Jul 5, 2022 10:23:53 #
mindzye
Loc: WV
CPR wrote:
Judges' personal opinion. There are not any rules, unless you want them to be????
Could that be a rule in and of itself?? Just asking - inquiring minds want to know!! :)
Kind of like the moderation thing. Everything in moderation -- including moderation
Jul 5, 2022 10:42:28 #
I think your image is beautiful and I have a dim view of those who judge other's efforts while casting doubts over what is acceptable or desirable.
Opinions are like butt holes....everyone has one . ( More Hot Air-Rising )
Opinions are like butt holes....everyone has one . ( More Hot Air-Rising )
Jul 5, 2022 10:55:48 #
Jul 5, 2022 10:59:23 #
murphle wrote:
Ah.... So it's ok to come from the quadrant, but not have a line coming from the corner. I can't use the one from the show because a) it's not mine and b) for some reason, it won't let me retrieve the full image, just a poorly cropped version for the virtual show....
I will use a pic of mine as an example. Please if you could recommend a crop that would be appropriate so I understand and stop sending in stuff from the corner:) Thank you all for your patience and help.
I will use a pic of mine as an example. Please if you could recommend a crop that would be appropriate so I understand and stop sending in stuff from the corner:) Thank you all for your patience and help.
To my unprofessional eye, this shot looks pretty perfect!!
Jul 5, 2022 11:10:33 #
Strodav wrote:
Unless you are a professional selling photos to make a living, the most important thing is that you like your images. To hell with everyone else, especially judges who almost always have their own biases. Take photos you like, and if someone else likes them, great. If not, don't worry about it. Remember, there is an exception to every "rule" of composition, which tells you there are no rules.
Jul 5, 2022 11:22:12 #
Wallen wrote:
I cannot agree with that judge. Images can be made even with a corner to corner diagonal. It just have to find the right balance to look well. Also, saying never in photography is like saying "do not grow".
I Googled to make an example, adjusted image. I see no fault in this image having a diagonal from a corner.
Original is from here:https://www.flickriver.com/photos/thelostframe/10616367274/
I Googled to make an example, adjusted image. I see no fault in this image having a diagonal from a corner.
Original is from here:https://www.flickriver.com/photos/thelostframe/10616367274/
That’s such a cool counter-example. Wow!
Jul 5, 2022 11:51:58 #
MrMophoto
Loc: Rhode Island "The biggest little"
It's been said; composition rules aren't rules, just suggestions. A college professor once told the class that once you understand the "rules" and know how and why to apply them, you will start to know when and why to break them.
The concept of composition is not new and has developed over time, the great master painters and sculptors, Rembrandt, Davinci, Michelangelo, Monet, all were aware and used composition.
Depending on how you view your own photography, you will be concerned about the composition or not. If you are taking pictures of flowers, birds, or your pet doing something cute, just to show family and friends, then you probably won't be that concerned with composition. And that's wonderful. However, if you consider your photographs as a work of artistic expression and want to be recognized as an artist, on some level, then you will be concerned about creating images above and beyond just "interesting". At that point you will need to be concerned about the composition of your images, because that is probably the biggest difference between a "work or art" and a snapshot.
I know a lot of people will disagree with my last statement, so be it.
The concept of composition is not new and has developed over time, the great master painters and sculptors, Rembrandt, Davinci, Michelangelo, Monet, all were aware and used composition.
Depending on how you view your own photography, you will be concerned about the composition or not. If you are taking pictures of flowers, birds, or your pet doing something cute, just to show family and friends, then you probably won't be that concerned with composition. And that's wonderful. However, if you consider your photographs as a work of artistic expression and want to be recognized as an artist, on some level, then you will be concerned about creating images above and beyond just "interesting". At that point you will need to be concerned about the composition of your images, because that is probably the biggest difference between a "work or art" and a snapshot.
I know a lot of people will disagree with my last statement, so be it.
Jul 5, 2022 11:57:10 #
Jul 5, 2022 11:58:23 #
M1911
Loc: DFW Metromess
"Consulting the rules of composition before making a photograph is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk."
Edward Weston
Edward Weston
Jul 5, 2022 12:05:44 #
Life is like photography, if you don't read the manual, you don't know the rules.
Jul 5, 2022 12:07:34 #
Jul 5, 2022 12:25:49 #
MrMophoto
Loc: Rhode Island "The biggest little"
M1911 wrote:
"Consulting the rules of composition before making a photograph is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk."
Edward Weston
Edward Weston
There is the reason why he is considered one of the masters
I used to tell my classes, You don't go out to take photographs with a composition in mind. You find something you want to photograph, then use composition to enhance and make the subject more compelling.
Jul 5, 2022 12:58:57 #
murphle wrote:
Ah.... So it's ok to come from the quadrant, but not have a line coming from the corner. I can't use the one from the show because a) it's not mine and b) for some reason, it won't let me retrieve the full image, just a poorly cropped version for the virtual show....
I will use a pic of mine as an example. Please if you could recommend a crop that would be appropriate so I understand and stop sending in stuff from the corner:) Thank you all for your patience and help.
I will use a pic of mine as an example. Please if you could recommend a crop that would be appropriate so I understand and stop sending in stuff from the corner:) Thank you all for your patience and help.
I have heard this as a general rule but do at times break it. I think it is more important in this shot as the reed is so bright and our eye is drawn to the brighter areas anyway. Here are a couple ways I would suggest for cropping it without having the reed come straight from the corner.
PS Also, it is even more important when the line is going off the right side as it draws us away from the main subject and off the picture.
Jul 5, 2022 12:58:57 #
All this negativity about judges, rules, camera clubs, competitions, and all the rest is ridiculous and somewaht childish.
These so-called "rules". guidelines, suggestions. or whatever euphemisms you want to use, are not laws that are enforced and carry penalties- so any of y'all can do whatever you want as to composition, exposure, or anything else.
Seriously folks we are all human beings and not everyone learns and functions the same way, Some peop are gifted with artistic talent and have a built-in, inborn sense of design, placement and therefore composition. Other folks have some talent that needs development the need some basic concepts to refine their technique. There are perfectly good folks who have absolutely no artistic learning but are capable of learning certain concepts by formula, can carry out instructions and produce decent images. And...there are folks who nothing and couldn't give a rat's tail about composition or anything else but nonetheless like to enjoy camera and photography for whatever purpose.
Judges and critics are also human beings, each with their own talents, tastes, prejudices and abilities to teach, encourage, and help others- OR NOT! Some can do all of this positively and articulate their thoughts in such a way, as to positive and negative aspects of any image, and leave the submitter with encouragement and enhanced knowledge, Others, unfortunately, may be good photograhers but when judging ac like frustrated drill instructors- and the is every kind of personality in between. So, if you enter a competition or submit yo work for critique, you need to be prepared for whatever comes your way and be able to separate the wheat from the chaff!
Competition rules are put in place to provide judges and submitters with the judging criteria. Differet clubs, organizations and professional associations have different criteria. If you don't like what organizations stand for or promote- don't go there! If you want to confirm or excel within a particular genre, choose your organization accordingly. If you are a "free spirit" and find a group or competition to traditional, stodgy, or whatever- find a different group! Even within a group in which to be compatible, when it comes to competitions, "if you can't take a punch, don't enter the ring"!
Sadly, there s a lot of "sour grapes". Some folks get a bad reading of their images and blame the judges or the entire concept of judging criteria or "rules". Maybe they were improperly or unfairly judged, MAYBE their submission was generally lousy! Sore losers or bad sportsmanship? Perhaps!
When I first start out as a professional in photography, my first boss and mentor forced me to enter my prints into competitions. Surprisingly enough, a few of my prints made it to the resulting exhibition but the majority were scored poorly. I attended open judging where the panel used prints for "punching bags" but I learned quickly how to improve my work. On the other hand, some of my other mentors, the more experienced shooters athte studio, told me to NOT only "shoot for the judges" but to develop my own style. After a while, you create a balance. My point is if you do photography as a hobby, and/or art for your own satisfaction, there is nobody FORCING you to enter competitions or conform to anything! As a kid, I enjoyed the competitions and always attend the judgings- I considered it free FREE SCHOOL!
These so-called "rules". guidelines, suggestions. or whatever euphemisms you want to use, are not laws that are enforced and carry penalties- so any of y'all can do whatever you want as to composition, exposure, or anything else.
Seriously folks we are all human beings and not everyone learns and functions the same way, Some peop are gifted with artistic talent and have a built-in, inborn sense of design, placement and therefore composition. Other folks have some talent that needs development the need some basic concepts to refine their technique. There are perfectly good folks who have absolutely no artistic learning but are capable of learning certain concepts by formula, can carry out instructions and produce decent images. And...there are folks who nothing and couldn't give a rat's tail about composition or anything else but nonetheless like to enjoy camera and photography for whatever purpose.
Judges and critics are also human beings, each with their own talents, tastes, prejudices and abilities to teach, encourage, and help others- OR NOT! Some can do all of this positively and articulate their thoughts in such a way, as to positive and negative aspects of any image, and leave the submitter with encouragement and enhanced knowledge, Others, unfortunately, may be good photograhers but when judging ac like frustrated drill instructors- and the is every kind of personality in between. So, if you enter a competition or submit yo work for critique, you need to be prepared for whatever comes your way and be able to separate the wheat from the chaff!
Competition rules are put in place to provide judges and submitters with the judging criteria. Differet clubs, organizations and professional associations have different criteria. If you don't like what organizations stand for or promote- don't go there! If you want to confirm or excel within a particular genre, choose your organization accordingly. If you are a "free spirit" and find a group or competition to traditional, stodgy, or whatever- find a different group! Even within a group in which to be compatible, when it comes to competitions, "if you can't take a punch, don't enter the ring"!
Sadly, there s a lot of "sour grapes". Some folks get a bad reading of their images and blame the judges or the entire concept of judging criteria or "rules". Maybe they were improperly or unfairly judged, MAYBE their submission was generally lousy! Sore losers or bad sportsmanship? Perhaps!
When I first start out as a professional in photography, my first boss and mentor forced me to enter my prints into competitions. Surprisingly enough, a few of my prints made it to the resulting exhibition but the majority were scored poorly. I attended open judging where the panel used prints for "punching bags" but I learned quickly how to improve my work. On the other hand, some of my other mentors, the more experienced shooters athte studio, told me to NOT only "shoot for the judges" but to develop my own style. After a while, you create a balance. My point is if you do photography as a hobby, and/or art for your own satisfaction, there is nobody FORCING you to enter competitions or conform to anything! As a kid, I enjoyed the competitions and always attend the judgings- I considered it free FREE SCHOOL!
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