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New Fuel Gage
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Jun 15, 2022 13:28:36   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Nope, don't mind, everyone, but everyone, is venting in this financially dire climate. Keep venting, I do, maybe some Pol will listen, doubt it though, they never do. As for moderating, business is in business for profit, not to provide jobs but to provide a service or a product plus it owes its allegiance to its investors and stockholders FIRST. Many businesses, restaurants moderated and ultimately went out of business during Covid.

The big venting by America will be in Nov. Personally I'm financially OK but my sympathies lie with the lower middle class and those living paycheck to paycheck and whose savings, if they had any at all, are being totally decimated by this predictable and mostly preventable financial mess....Cheers, have a great day.
Nope, don't mind, everyone, but everyone, is venti... (show quote)


As usual in economics, there is a very complicated mix of forces in play. Blaming it on politicians of either party is fruitless and a mistake.

How many companies have raised prices to cover the cost of $15 an hour wages that used to be $7 an hour?

How many companies have lost employees to other companies because they didn't want to raise wages, and now have to hire new people who still won't work at the low wages they were offering? That causes their output to shrink, putting upward pressure on prices because fewer people make fewer goods that are in higher demand by people with money saved up during Covid lockdowns.

Do we expect oil companies to build new refineries after they just shut down the worst of them during the pandemic, with no intention of needing them again, because we are headed towards cleaner energy solutions?

Does the Fed put the brakes on slowly or all at once? Wall Street is fickle. There are traders who have never been in a market where rates were above 5%! They would freak out. Yet we endured ridiculous stagflation in the early 1980s and rates soared. It took two generations to get rates down below 5% again.

Oil is a commodity that requires several distinct stages of production and distribution:

Prospecting
Drilling
Piping/trucking/shipping crude oil
Refining crude into multiple products in a constantly changing demand mix
Piping/trucking/storing and distribution of gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, heating fuel, etc.
Retailing

No one realistically wants to build new refineries when the industry is trying to milk every last dime out of what is left of their heydays. It takes enormous investment, lots of time, lots of regulatory approval, lots of "NIMBY" arguments to overcome, and by the time a new refinery comes on line, we'll have other sources of energy reducing the demand for that product.

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Jun 15, 2022 13:46:14   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
srg wrote:
Maybe 1 percent of the world's oil comes from Russia. Why did the price rise by 300 percent?


Roughly TEN percent of the WORLD'S oil comes from Russia. Taking most of that away causes the WORLD price of oil to rise sharply.

Price elasticity is basically a measure of how much a rise in price causes the demand for a product to fall. Price elasticity of gasoline is essentially near zero. That means consumers have to have it to drive to work, school, shopping, and vacations. They might cut back a little, but there is a point where they cannot cut back usage.

During the pandemic, several large, old refineries were shut down, a few of them for good, and others for refurbishment and maintenance. Now, demand at $2.50 a gallon exceeds supply by a HUGE margin. Heck, demand at $4.50 a gallon is still way up there (prices are local to The Piedmont Triad region of NC). People have more money now that most have gone back to work and they ARE spending it.

Prices rise to what the market will bear. Good microeconomic practice is to set prices where marginal cost of additional production equals marginal revenue from the sale of it AND where the demand for the product will maximize sales and revenue.

GovCo has very little to do with the price of oil. Even the dumping of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is mostly a symbolic gesture, since it represents a teeny tiny fraction of overall demand. It just sounds impressive.

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Jun 15, 2022 13:46:54   #
Moondoggie Loc: Southern California
 
Ain't that the truth

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Jun 15, 2022 14:24:26   #
ILFarmer
 
I hear you.

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Jun 15, 2022 18:40:55   #
PAR4DCR Loc: A Sunny Place
 


Don

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Jun 15, 2022 19:05:24   #
srg
 
burkphoto wrote:
Roughly TEN percent of the WORLD'S oil comes from Russia. Taking most of that away causes the WORLD price of oil to rise sharply.

Price elasticity is basically a measure of how much a rise in price causes the demand for a product to fall. Price elasticity of gasoline is essentially near zero. That means consumers have to have it to drive to work, school, shopping, and vacations. They might cut back a little, but there is a point where they cannot cut back usage.

During the pandemic, several large, old refineries were shut down, a few of them for good, and others for refurbishment and maintenance. Now, demand at $2.50 a gallon exceeds supply by a HUGE margin. Heck, demand at $4.50 a gallon is still way up there (prices are local to The Piedmont Triad region of NC). People have more money now that most have gone back to work and they ARE spending it.

Prices rise to what the market will bear. Good microeconomic practice is to set prices where marginal cost of additional production equals marginal revenue from the sale of it AND where the demand for the product will maximize sales and revenue.

GovCo has very little to do with the price of oil. Even the dumping of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is mostly a symbolic gesture, since it represents a teeny tiny fraction of overall demand. It just sounds impressive.
Roughly TEN percent of the WORLD'S oil comes from ... (show quote)


Two very intelligent posts Mr. Burk. Of course I was exaggerating about the 1 percent, but your 10% figure is a surprise to me. I had no idea it was that high.

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Jun 15, 2022 21:35:59   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
srg wrote:
Two very intelligent posts Mr. Burk. Of course I was exaggerating about the 1 percent, but your 10% figure is a surprise to me. I had no idea it was that high.


That's probably because the figure of 1-2% is for USA consumption of Russian oil prior to the Ukraine invasion.

If we take away the Russian oil, demand spikes considerably in other nations, and some of that oil comes from us.

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Jun 16, 2022 07:53:58   #
Pedro vazquez Loc: Ca
 
It doesn’t work for California
A full tank it costs you about 140.00

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Jun 16, 2022 08:37:37   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Pedro vazquez wrote:
It doesn’t work for California
A full tank it costs you about 140.00


It might cost YOU $140.
My tank only holds 10 gallons.

The solution is to drive less. Yes, a tank of gas will still cost a lot, but if you reduce the amount you use your car (switch to public transportation or chill at home) your tank of gas will last longer.

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Jun 16, 2022 09:05:15   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Pedro vazquez wrote:
It doesn’t work for California
A full tank it costs you about 140.00


For what vehicle? Obviously not a hybrid sedan!

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Jun 16, 2022 12:07:10   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
BebuLamar wrote:
That's backward. The lower the amount of fuel left the higher the amount of money needed to refuel it. Besides prices change very quickly it would need to have an internet connection to keep the gauge up to date.


Interesting. I look at just the opposite (i.e. in his example in order to fill it the cost would be $80).

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Jun 16, 2022 14:31:31   #
BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD
 
Glad I didn't have a mouthful of coffee...

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Jun 16, 2022 14:42:22   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
It might cost YOU $140.
My tank only holds 10 gallons.

The solution is to drive less. Yes, a tank of gas will still cost a lot, but if you reduce the amount you use your car (switch to public transportation or chill at home) your tank of gas will last longer.


I put ten gallons in my Prius last week. It gets roughly 40 MPG combined. It cost me about $47 to go 400 miles...

I bought my first Prius in 2008. (We now have seven hybrids in our extended family...) When I need a van, or a pickup truck, I rent one. Otherwise, I don't whine about gas prices. I don't whine about repairs, either, because they are cheap to maintain.

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Jun 16, 2022 15:28:16   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
I note that the business mileage rate is increasing to 62.5 cents per mile (July 1). That presumably covers the cost of capital, maintenance, insurance, and fuel. Of those items only the fuel is directly related to driving.

At 18 mpg for your truck, the $5/gallon gas is costing you 28 cents per mile. Less than half of the mileage rate. Capital, maintenance and insurance apply even if you don't drive much.

My Prius gets 55-65 mpg, around 8 cents per mile. I generally drive it less than 25 miles/day so I can make my 10 gallon tank last about 3 weeks.

I should thank all those who drive gas guzzlers for contributing to the tax that is supposed to be maintaining our highways.

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Jun 16, 2022 16:36:41   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I note that the business mileage rate is increasing to 62.5 cents per mile (July 1). That presumably covers the cost of capital, maintenance, insurance, and fuel. Of those items only the fuel is directly related to driving.

At 18 mpg for your truck, the $5/gallon gas is costing you 28 cents per mile. Less than half of the mileage rate. Capital, maintenance and insurance apply even if you don't drive much.

My Prius gets 55-65 mpg, around 8 cents per mile. I generally drive it less than 25 miles/day so I can make my 10 gallon tank last about 3 weeks.

I should thank all those who drive gas guzzlers for contributing to the tax that is supposed to be maintaining our highways.
I note that the business mileage rate is increasin... (show quote)


Ha! Same here! When the switch to alternative fuels gets going in a big way, states will have to find another way to fund highways.

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