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Why have we abandoned Hydroelectric power?
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Mar 25, 2022 13:35:48   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
DHenard wrote:
Hydro only supplies around 20% of TVA's power. The rest is mostly fossil and nuclear. The TVA dams main purpose was flood control. Generating electricity was not the main purpose. Besides, who wants to flood 40,000+ acres for a dam. I live in Northeast Tennessee and there are several lakes near me. TVA supplies my power. The lakes are beautiful, but there are better ways of generating power.


And it didn’t hurt that the TVA supplied power for the power hungry gaseous diffusion process in Oak Ridge for refining Uranium for the first atomic bomb.

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Mar 25, 2022 13:41:35   #
nobody13579
 
Here on the left coast they are pushing electric vehicles which are going to require a power source of some variety.
Since most people use their cars during the day the demand for power to recharge them will be overnight (goodbye solar), wind power is not a reliable source day or night. In my never to be humble opinion nuclear is clearly the best option overall. Maybe using the hot air generated by politicians would work since there is an unlimited supply.

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Mar 25, 2022 14:04:30   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
I find it interesting that all of the life on earth that has ever existed, including those here today, with the exception of man,has existed without consuming a single watt of electricity.

I'm onboard with geothermal however the "anti-fracker" groups would have a fit when deep boreholes are drilled into the earth as a source to generate power to charge their smartphones so that they can post their stardoms on TikTok.

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Mar 25, 2022 14:06:43   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
47greyfox wrote:
Simple answer, CA, AZ, NM, etc are sucking the rivers dry without regard for consequences. We are amazing in this country for not doing anything until it’s almost too late. We deserve our fate and those that follow us.
You notice how little discussion there is about our continuing conspicuous consumption? House size, vehicle size, number of tv's and computers, 150 choices of dry cereal in the grocery store?? We are a greedy, selfish country indeed.

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Mar 25, 2022 14:06:54   #
Triple G
 
Bridges wrote:
Maybe not the dam, but just think of all that lake front property that could be sold for an inflated price!


Economic boom to the area; just not for the landowners who now own the places in the proposed flood areas!

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Mar 25, 2022 14:36:43   #
TKinthePNW Loc: Washington
 
I live in the PNW. We have so many dams with hydroelectric powered and it makes our state rich in the power distribution. We also have an amazing amount of wind turbine farms to supplement that power. You we sell more of that power out to outside states and Canada let alone the the server farms for Google, Amazon etc in this area that consumes so much also. But here is an issue. There is a side effect to it with nature. Salmon runs are interfered with so much that it effects population and guess what - no fish other wildlife is affected. As for the wind turbines - well guess what - it kills more birds and eagles than anything else. Sooooooo... whats the balance here - maybe stop demanding so much power. Does everything thing we do in life REALLY necessarily need a plug in and download. No talks about the demand of power to the server farms. We want Netflix, Amazon on demand videos, Facebooking blah blah I want my MTV syndrome... How about just enjoy life, hike and take a good few picture ;) ... Have a great day everyone.

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Mar 25, 2022 14:37:30   #
pendennis
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
You notice how little discussion there is about our continuing conspicuous consumption? House size, vehicle size, number of tv's and computers, 150 choices of dry cereal in the grocery store?? We are a greedy, selfish country indeed.


The vast majority of Americans do not engage in so-called "conspicuous consumption". And the power usage for modern TV's, computers, radios, etc., is far below that when there were diodes, tubes, etc. And if there are "150 choices of dry cereal in the grocery store", so what? Consumers in a free society have choices. Just how many choices are there in Socialist countries such as Russia and China; one, two, any?

And just to be clear about greed, the misnomered "robber barons" of the 19th Century were a myth. Rockefeller, Carnegie, et al, gave away billions to philanthropic organizations. If you ever visited a public library, you can thank Carnegie for his gifts. And by the end of the 19th century, steel, oil, concrete, etc., all cost less in real dollars than they did in 1850.

If anyone chooses to own a house or car of a specific size, just who's business is it? Their money, their choices. Those folks who "buy large" are providing jobs, salaries and wages, and greater opportunities for those who do the work. Our economy is not a zero-sum game.

Our population has tripled since The Great War. In 100 years, a war of horrible death and destruction, and the fight against Communism/Socialism/Fascism, the majority of the world is a better place. People live longer, and are healthier, by and large. The only folks who don't do well, are those who lack the freedom to make economic choices.

And I'll bet that those individuals who are so concerned with conspicuous consumption, will be the last to give up their cell phones, digital cameras, and modern computers.

The U.S. still leads the world in private, charitable giving. No other country comes close. And if we're so greedy and selfish, just why is there a waiting list of +/- 45 million folks legally trying to get in?

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Mar 25, 2022 14:39:12   #
pendennis
 
TKinthePNW wrote:
I live in the PNW. We have so many dams with hydroelectric powered and it makes our state rich in the power distribution. We also have an amazing amount of wind turbine farms to supplement that power. You we sell more of that power out to outside states and Canada let alone the the server farms for Google, Amazon etc in this area that consumes so much also. But here is an issue. There is a side effect to it with nature. Salmon runs are interfered with so much that it effects population and guess what - no fish other wildlife is affected. As for the wind turbines - well guess what - it kills more birds and eagles than anything else. Sooooooo... whats the balance here - maybe stop demanding so much power. Does everything thing we do in life REALLY necessarily need a plug in and download. No talks about the demand of power to the server farms. We want Netflix, Amazon on demand videos, Facebooking blah blah I want my MTV syndrome... How about just enjoy life, hike and take a good few picture ;) ... Have a great day everyone.
I live in the PNW. We have so many dams with hydro... (show quote)


Rather than discussing hydro, wind, or solar, turn to nuclear.

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Mar 25, 2022 14:54:36   #
RatGMAN Loc: SE Pennsylvania
 
I don't understand why lawns are necessary. Creating a "lawn" of natural (and edible) plants, bushes, trees would not only reduce water usage, but provide food.

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Mar 25, 2022 15:04:37   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Bridges wrote:
With all the talk about electric cars and how it takes more fossil fuel to supply the electric needed for this than we have, why did we abandon hydroelectric power? In the past we built a wonderful system of dams called the TVA Project and then we built the Hoover dam, and then just quit? China built the world's largest hydroelectric dam on our money and we print trillions when we need to. I understand large dams are expensive but so are nuclear power plants. If we want to promote electric without increasing our fossil fuel consumption why aren't we building dams?
With all the talk about electric cars and how it t... (show quote)


Climate change. Have you checked reservoir levels recently?

Special interests — oil, coal, natural gas — Their lobbyists never quit buying politicians:

https://youtu.be/_QAKz_cxTlQ

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Mar 25, 2022 15:12:23   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Bridges wrote:
With all the talk about electric cars and how it takes more fossil fuel to supply the electric needed for this than we have, why did we abandon hydroelectric power? In the past we built a wonderful system of dams called the TVA Project and then we built the Hoover dam, and then just quit? China built the world's largest hydroelectric dam on our money and we print trillions when we need to. I understand large dams are expensive but so are nuclear power plants. If we want to promote electric without increasing our fossil fuel consumption why aren't we building dams?
With all the talk about electric cars and how it t... (show quote)


First you have to have a river capable of producing a useful amount of power, flat country slow flowing rivers don't do it. Then it can't be a large navigable river, you stop the boats. It can't be a place where your flood out farms, towns etc. and you may have to get past legal blocks put up by environmental groups who don't want the canyon/valley etc. flooded.

Dams are large expensive building projects - TVA and the others you mentioned were in large part built by the "Alphabet Agencies" of the Depression with a large part of the labor force being those out of work.

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Mar 25, 2022 15:14:33   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
DaveO wrote:
Environmentalists in the northeast, Maine in particular, have thwarted major proposals to bring hydro power from Canada to New England.


I understand that is because of the wide clear cut pathway for the transmission lines cutting right through the forests.

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Mar 25, 2022 15:17:26   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Moondoggie wrote:
What’s interesting is the Iceland runs on geothermal energy.


Because it is basically a big cluster of volcanos that grew to be a large island. = plenty of geothermal energy available.

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Mar 25, 2022 15:20:04   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
robertjerl wrote:
First you have to have a river capable of producing a useful amount of power, flat country slow flowing rivers don't do it. Then it can't be a large navigable river, you stop the boats. It can't be a place where your flood out farms, towns etc. and you may have to get past legal blocks put up by environmental groups who don't want the canyon/valley etc. flooded.

Dams are large expensive building projects - TVA and the others you mentioned were in large part built by the "Alphabet Agencies" of the Depression with a large part of the labor force being those out of work.
First you have to have a river capable of producin... (show quote)


It seems that the Mississippi flows fast enough to spin underwater turbines that produce power.

https://ensia.com/features/new-spin-on-hydropower/

https://siteselection.com/theEnergyReport/2010/aug/hydro-power.cfm

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tapping-the-mississippi-and-tides-with-turbines/

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Mar 25, 2022 15:22:58   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Bridges wrote:
I see you are from PA. No problem with drops in elevation in this state. I'm sure you are familiar with the "Endless Mountains". There are vast areas of PA where dams could be built and disrupt very little if any existing communities. Northeast of Pittsburg there are also many mountain valleys with very little population. Kentucky is lightly populated in some areas as well as western Maryland. I'm not saying hydroelectric is the answer to our energy problems, just that it is one piece of the whole that is not being utilized enough. As a photographer I'm tired of seeing the landscape filled with giant windmills and while electric will need to build transmission towers, they aren't as numerous in a concentrated area as windmills are. I'm all for geothermal. When I lived in Indiana, in leu of putting out the expense for a new fossil fueled power plant, the utility offered homeowners a sweet deal. They would pay for putting in a groundwater heat pump system and continue charging the same rate the homeowner was currently paying for electric. The this would pay the system off in ten years and then the cost of electric would go down by half or more. Hydroelectric and geothermal are the areas we should be looking at to meet demands for the future. If we don't start some very aggressive actions now, how are we going to meet the demand for enough electric power to fuel an all electric motor pool? A lot of people want the US to be energy independent but where are the actions that back up that want? It seems no one wants to take the "bull by the horns" and get aggressive on developing alternative energy. Here is an idea: Why not require all businesses over, say 5000 sq. ft. to install X-number of solar panels per sq. ft. of roof? There are many 1,000,000 sq. ft. warehouses being built in this area. A solar farm on these roofs could supply not only most or all of the energy needed for the business but put some kilowatts back into the grid to supply additional facilities or homes in the area. I know it is a fine line to cross for government to demand businesses to do this or that, but there are many regulations government already demands -- x-number of parking spaces for certain businesses, green areas, retention ponds, curbs, etc. I'm sure there would be resistance from the business sector, but it could be a good deal if incentives like tax rebates were offered.
I see you are from PA. No problem with drops in e... (show quote)


Oh, we will try to arrange for you to be one of those "lightly populated" people whose town, farm etc. gets flooded out and see how you like it.
Then there is the environment and the law suits brought to keep it the way it is.

Solar only works in the daylight hours, when it isn't cloudy etc. etc. And they then have to put in power plants or keep the old ones on standby to make up for it. And the same goes for the wind turbines they have backup plant capacity for when the wind doesn't blow enough.

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