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Why have we abandoned Hydroelectric power?
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Mar 24, 2022 21:28:29   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
With all the talk about electric cars and how it takes more fossil fuel to supply the electric needed for this than we have, why did we abandon hydroelectric power? In the past we built a wonderful system of dams called the TVA Project and then we built the Hoover dam, and then just quit? China built the world's largest hydroelectric dam on our money and we print trillions when we need to. I understand large dams are expensive but so are nuclear power plants. If we want to promote electric without increasing our fossil fuel consumption why aren't we building dams?

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Mar 24, 2022 21:56:12   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Bridges wrote:
.... If we want to promote electric without increasing our fossil fuel consumption why aren't we building dams?

Because nuclear power does not use fossil fuels and can be placed where there are no rivers with sufficient drop or volume to be dammed, or no rivers?

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Mar 24, 2022 22:42:05   #
b top gun
 
And the drought situation in the West especially the Colorado River drainage is running out of water to power those dams.

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Mar 24, 2022 23:42:07   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
b top gun wrote:
And the drought situation in the West especially the Colorado River drainage is running out of water to power those dams.


Water behind dams is being used for agriculture and watering people's lawns. Drought doesn't help either

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Mar 25, 2022 00:08:38   #
ORpilot Loc: Prineville, Or
 
If you don't have falling water ..... you can't have hydropower. Out here in drought stricken Oregon, the University Of Oregon has an experimental hydro plant utilizing Ocean Waves. Locally, the county submitted the paperwork to put in a hydro plant at Bowman Dam on the Crooked river. Unfortunately there is no water this year. The dam has very little more than a mud puddle behind it. Oregon has expanded its use of wind power and solar farms. I don't understand why people living in the high desert here in Central Oregon have to have a thirsty green grass lawn. My yard is rocks and wood chips. No watering required. As the farmers say: No water, No food. But even the farmers have started using more water conservation methods such as drip irrigation.

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Mar 25, 2022 06:33:13   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
Environmentalists in the northeast, Maine in particular, have thwarted major proposals to bring hydro power from Canada to New England.

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Mar 25, 2022 07:36:36   #
HamB
 
Hydropower is bad for (insert favorite animal/fish) and freezing in the dark is good for you.

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Mar 25, 2022 07:53:46   #
whfowle Loc: Tampa first, now Albuquerque
 
Natural sources like wind, solar and water all have their drawbacks. They are not constant. What has been proven over time and experience is a need for a steady source of energy that we can rely on. Our demand for constant electric power to run nearly everything we use 24/7/365 is either going to be some form of fossil fuel or nuclear energy. The TVA was a great idea for the East side of the country where water is more abundant, but the West has suffered drought in recent decades because so many people have moved west and are building cities where people demand water.

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Mar 25, 2022 07:56:40   #
cedymock Loc: Irmo, South Carolina
 
ORpilot wrote:
If you don't have falling water ..... you can't have hydropower. Out here in drought stricken Oregon, the University Of Oregon has an experimental hydro plant utilizing Ocean Waves. Locally, the county submitted the paperwork to put in a hydro plant at Bowman Dam on the Crooked river. Unfortunately there is no water this year. The dam has very little more than a mud puddle behind it. Oregon has expanded its use of wind power and solar farms. I don't understand why people living in the high desert here in Central Oregon have to have a thirsty green grass lawn. My yard is rocks and wood chips. No watering required. As the farmers say: No water, No food. But even the farmers have started using more water conservation methods such as drip irrigation.
If you don't have falling water ..... you can't ha... (show quote)


Just need two lakes; This is from Duke Energy Community page.

Lake Jocassee and Jocassee Pumped Storage Facility
The four-unit Jocassee Pumped Storage Facility is a 710-megawatt generating facility located in Pickens County, S.C. The commercial operation of units 1 and 2 began in 1973. Commercial operation of units 3 and 4 began in 1975.

The average annual generation from the Jocassee Development is 811,000 megawatt-hours and the pumping energy requirement is 988,000 megawatt-hours. When generating electricity, the facility works as a conventional hydroelectric station. However, the Jocassee Pumped Storage Facility can also reverse its turbines and pump back previously used water from Lake Keowee into Lake Jocassee. This allows Duke Energy to reuse the water to generate electricity at a later time. For more information, read How Do Pumped-Storage Hydro Plants Work?

Lake Jocassee’s full pond elevation is 1,100 feet above mean sea level (MSL) with a maximum licensed drawdown of 30 feet. At full pond, the surface area is approximately 7,980 acres with approximately 92 miles of shoreline. The Jocassee Dam is a zoned earth and rockfill structure approximately 385 feet high and 1,800 feet in length. The dam includes two circular structures with eight openings that direct water to the generating units.

Lake Jocassee also serves as the lower reservoir for the Bad Creek Pumped Storage Facility. When electricity is being generated at the Bad Creek Pumped Storage Facility, water stored in the upper Bad Creek reservoir is released into Lake Jocassee through an underwater opening or discharge portal. The portal is located on the Whitewater River arm of Lake Jocassee. During the refilling of the upper Bad Creek reservoir, the Bad Creek Pumped Storage Facility turbines are reversed to pump water back from Lake Jocassee into the upper Bad Creek reservoir. Bad Creek Pumped Storage Facility began operating in 1991; its FERC license expires in 2027.

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Mar 25, 2022 07:57:29   #
sodapop Loc: Bel Air, MD
 
Most dams were built for flood control, hydroelectric power being a convenient add on.

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Mar 25, 2022 07:57:42   #
Moondoggie Loc: Southern California
 
What’s interesting is the Iceland runs on geothermal energy.

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Mar 25, 2022 08:44:39   #
sb Loc: Florida's East Coast
 
b top gun wrote:
And the drought situation in the West especially the Colorado River drainage is running out of water to power those dams.


Two of the fastest growing cities in the US are Las Vegas and Phoenix - two cities which have very meager sources of water. Hard to understand that.

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Mar 25, 2022 08:47:42   #
sb Loc: Florida's East Coast
 
DaveO wrote:
Environmentalists in the northeast, Maine in particular, have thwarted major proposals to bring hydro power from Canada to New England.


For some reason they don't want a massive power line network going through the pristine mountains of Western Maine just to supply the needs of people in Bahstan and Connecticutt.... I personally think that is probably better than more nuclear plants...

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Mar 25, 2022 09:21:06   #
JBRIII
 
ORpilot wrote:
If you don't have falling water ..... you can't have hydropower. Out here in drought stricken Oregon, the University Of Oregon has an experimental hydro plant utilizing Ocean Waves. Locally, the county submitted the paperwork to put in a hydro plant at Bowman Dam on the Crooked river. Unfortunately there is no water this year. The dam has very little more than a mud puddle behind it. Oregon has expanded its use of wind power and solar farms. I don't understand why people living in the high desert here in Central Oregon have to have a thirsty green grass lawn. My yard is rocks and wood chips. No watering required. As the farmers say: No water, No food. But even the farmers have started using more water conservation methods such as drip irrigation.
If you don't have falling water ..... you can't ha... (show quote)


I'm not saying it never works or can't be made to work, but ocean wave power has been tried for as long as I remember. Never seems to go big time, corrosion is one problem I believe.

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Mar 25, 2022 09:48:44   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
Longshadow wrote:
Because nuclear power does not use fossil fuels and can be placed where there are no rivers with sufficient drop or volume to be dammed, or no rivers?


I see you are from PA. No problem with drops in elevation in this state. I'm sure you are familiar with the "Endless Mountains". There are vast areas of PA where dams could be built and disrupt very little if any existing communities. Northeast of Pittsburg there are also many mountain valleys with very little population. Kentucky is lightly populated in some areas as well as western Maryland. I'm not saying hydroelectric is the answer to our energy problems, just that it is one piece of the whole that is not being utilized enough. As a photographer I'm tired of seeing the landscape filled with giant windmills and while electric will need to build transmission towers, they aren't as numerous in a concentrated area as windmills are. I'm all for geothermal. When I lived in Indiana, in leu of putting out the expense for a new fossil fueled power plant, the utility offered homeowners a sweet deal. They would pay for putting in a groundwater heat pump system and continue charging the same rate the homeowner was currently paying for electric. The this would pay the system off in ten years and then the cost of electric would go down by half or more. Hydroelectric and geothermal are the areas we should be looking at to meet demands for the future. If we don't start some very aggressive actions now, how are we going to meet the demand for enough electric power to fuel an all electric motor pool? A lot of people want the US to be energy independent but where are the actions that back up that want? It seems no one wants to take the "bull by the horns" and get aggressive on developing alternative energy. Here is an idea: Why not require all businesses over, say 5000 sq. ft. to install X-number of solar panels per sq. ft. of roof? There are many 1,000,000 sq. ft. warehouses being built in this area. A solar farm on these roofs could supply not only most or all of the energy needed for the business but put some kilowatts back into the grid to supply additional facilities or homes in the area. I know it is a fine line to cross for government to demand businesses to do this or that, but there are many regulations government already demands -- x-number of parking spaces for certain businesses, green areas, retention ponds, curbs, etc. I'm sure there would be resistance from the business sector, but it could be a good deal if incentives like tax rebates were offered.

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