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Canada Shows Why It’s Called ‘American Exceptionalism’
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Feb 21, 2022 21:12:15   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
dennis2146 wrote:
John of course there are numerous fatal police shootings. But we are not talking about THOSE shootings are we? Why bring up police shootings that were ruled as good shootings in which the perpetrator was shot and deservedly so? We ARE talking about fatal police shootings where the police shot someone that others later said the police did not have a right to shoot them. Those shootings could well have involved a person whom the police said, Do not reach for anything, do not lower your hands, do not get back into your vehicle etc. Surely you know what I mean.
The perpetrator violated one of those rules set out by the officers at the time and fearing for his life the officer shot and killed the person.

So looking at the equation from THAT point of view my friend it is YOU who is shooting off your mouth. Another thing for you to notice that is increasing is the number of police assassinated by citizens. Did you notice that trend has shot up also? I doubt it. You on the Left have no respect for what police officers do, day after day to protect citizens. Give it a try John and then run your mouth about it.

Dennis
John of course there are numerous fatal police sho... (show quote)


Dennis... 5 or fewer "accidental" or "unjustified" police killings? Really?

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Feb 21, 2022 21:26:55   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
InfiniteISO wrote:
The media magnifies and twists these incidents so that even a smart guy like you John starts to believe that our officers are cruising the streets looking for someone minding their own business to whack.


Hey, ISO, thanks for the compliment. I am sure it was sincere!

As for what cops think, if "a smart guy like you" can think it, then don't you think someone NOT as smart as you might think it AND do it? You don't think that some guys with an ego problem might find a uniform and badge something to supplement their shortage of testosterone? American movies are full of such cops, and I do believe there is an element of truth to what Hollywood portrays.

At least be honest and tell me you don't think it is 5 or fewer unjustified police killings out of the roughly 1000 per year.

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Feb 21, 2022 21:45:59   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
John, I never threw out the "5" number. But as an example, the woman police officer recently sentenced that accidently shot her victim instead of hitting him with her taser, would not have drawn her gun if the guy had listened to her.

There are very few people, white or black, that are shot by police that don't play a significant part in their own demise. We know the number is low because we hear about EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

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Feb 21, 2022 22:15:25   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
InfiniteISO wrote:
John, I never threw out the "5" number. But as an example, the woman police officer recently sentenced that accidently shot her victim instead of hitting him with her taser, would not have drawn her gun if the guy had listened to her.

There are very few people, white or black, that are shot by police that don't play a significant part in their own demise. We know the number is low because we hear about EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.


Dennis threw out the number "5 or fewer", but I suspect it is higher than that. I searched briefly for the number of "unjustifiable" police killings but did not find anything.

I don't dispute that people who don't cooperate with cops are asking for trouble. From what I read about the Amir Locke killing the police entered the apartment while executing a no-knock search warrant and shouting "Police, search warrant." Amir, who had been sleeping, reached for his gun and pointed it at the cops. The family questions that account of the actions, but if that is indeed what happened then I won't go as far as saying he deserved what he got, but I think you know what I am saying, and I agree that he played a significant role in his death.

There are good cops and bad cops; and there are smart people and stupid people. One of those combinations is really bad!

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Feb 21, 2022 22:20:10   #
srt101fan
 
No comments?

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-729694-2.html#12946402

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Feb 21, 2022 23:28:49   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
JohnFrim wrote:
Hey, ISO, thanks for the compliment. I am sure it was sincere!

As for what cops think, if "a smart guy like you" can think it, then don't you think someone NOT as smart as you might think it AND do it? You don't think that some guys with an ego problem might find a uniform and badge something to supplement their shortage of testosterone? American movies are full of such cops, and I do believe there is an element of truth to what Hollywood portrays.

At least be honest and tell me you don't think it is 5 or fewer unjustified police killings out of the roughly 1000 per year.
Hey, ISO, thanks for the compliment. I am sure it ... (show quote)


Just like you John to base real life on American movies. We all own machine guns and rocket launchers too, don’t you know.

Dennis

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Feb 22, 2022 00:46:16   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
dennis2146 wrote:
Just like you John to base real life on American movies. We all own machine guns and rocket launchers too, don’t you know.

Dennis


I don't doubt that some do.

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Feb 22, 2022 02:25:59   #
Murray Loc: New Westminster
 
JohnFrim wrote:
It is an opinion piece, nothing more.

Spot on,

Murray
Regarding the differences between the US and the other "free democracies" that he says don't have the birthright freedoms of Americans, it really does not matter what the guiding principles are if the implementation leads to the same endpoint. That is the basis behind statements on political ideologies that say even a benevolent dictatorship can be a good system.

The freedoms and rights of Canadians are not in practice much different than in the US. We can object and speak out against our leaders -- we do it every day; and we put our feelings into action every election cycle. The writer of the piece at least acknowledges that the majority of Canadians did not support the truckers, they were pleased that the PM took the action he did, and even admonished him for not acting sooner. That is because that action was in the best interests of the country, not the interests of the vocal minority. And the role of government is to protect the nation as a whole. People are in general apathetic, and the ones who speak out most loudly are usually a small subset of the country. If the government reacted by caving to every outcry, no matter how outlandish or selfish it is, then we would not have a country run by an elected government, but rather a country ruled by mobs.

I always admired Americans for their leadership in, and defence of, democracy... until the system allowed a person like Trump to rise to the top. He undermined democracy while claiming to defend it; he trashed truth and honesty while lying daily to the nation; he thwarted law and order because he believe he is above the law; and Americans fell for the ruse hook, line and sinker.

There are many Americans who are now (in the post-Trump era) speaking out about how fragile your democracy is, and how it could be lost to an autocratic or dictatorial government. The Righteous Right claim that the Demonic Democrats are pushing the country in that direction, while the Dems are saying that the Repubs are undermining democracy. The Repubs fight back saying America is NOT a democracy, but a democratic republic. Nuances and semantics aside, YOU are a Democracy just like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Britain, France, Germany... The people of the country get to elect their government by majority vote, and the government is charged with doing what is best for the nation. That means for the majority, not the minority. And the government needs to, and should, act when necessary to protect the country. In the case of the trucker protest, mask and vaccine mandates were seen as a way to curb the spread of COVID; and shutting down the protest was a way of stopping a few thousand individuals from hijacking the economy of not only Canada but also the US by closing the border.

Prior to Trump taking office America WAS "The Greatest Country in the World." If the US can once again become Number 1 in the world for Democracy, Freedom, Economy, Defence, Education, S&T,... then I will once again think more highly of the land beneath mine. All I can say right now is that if Canada is "American Exceptionalism" then I am happy to be Canadian right now.
It is an opinion piece, nothing more. br br Spot ... (show quote)

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Feb 22, 2022 07:49:16   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
JohnFrim wrote:
I don't doubt that some do.


Yes John, a great many people do own machine guns in America. Many own and fire cannons too, not just Revolutionary or Civil war black powder cannons but WW2 cannons and quite legally too. I can't recall when a machine gun was used in a crime except for the bank robbery in North Hollywood. I do seem to recall a gun store owner using a machine gun in Florida to ward off thieves trying to break into his store if I remember correctly. They just are not a big thing used in crime here EXCEPT of course in the MOVIES. You do know most movies are not not real life taking place don't you? They are not actual videos of what is going on.

Even assault looking rifles are not really used in crimes that much my friend. They are simply classed as rifles and there are more murders/assaults with knives than rifles in America. Have you seen the latest craze of someone on the NY subway system stabbing people. Damn, you will have us outlawing knives soon now. I wonder how you would eat your steak and kidney pie if that happens. How could the cook even make it?

Dennis

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Feb 22, 2022 09:30:07   #
pendennis
 
JohnFrim wrote:
Pardon my forwardness, but that is utter crap. The words can say you are endowed rights by your creator, but those rights are only accepted, exercised, and enforced because your government -- YOU, THE PEOPLE -- acknowledge, respect, and abide by them. GOD has nothing to do with your freedom.


I can agree with you in one respect. (A) god has nothing to do with my freedom. And freedom is a concept which long predates any deist concept by mankind. While the Founders were a mix of deists and other organized religions, they well recognized that there were citizens who recognized no deity.

Freedom is maintained as long as folks are willing to risk life and limb to keep out tyrannical governments. Evidently, that's something not recognized by many Canadians. You've opted for the velvet-clad fist of benign tyranny.

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Feb 22, 2022 09:52:13   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
pendennis wrote:
I can agree with you in one respect. (A) god has nothing to do with my freedom. And freedom is a concept which long predates any deist concept by mankind. While the Founders were a mix of deists and other organized religions, they well recognized that there were citizens who recognized no deity.

Freedom is maintained as long as folks are willing to risk life and limb to keep out tyrannical governments. Evidently, that's something not recognized by many Canadians. You've opted for the velvet-clad fist of benign tyranny.
I can agree with you in one respect. (A) god has ... (show quote)


Thanks for the agreement on the deity issue. At least we don't have to get into a discussion on religion.

As for your last statement, tyranny -- like murder or theft -- is a behaviour that can only be defined or determined in retrospect by actions. No one is a murderer, or a thief, or a tyrant until they commit the respective act that defines that behaviour.

Now, if you believe Canada is governed by a velvet-clad fist of benign tyranny then you are attesting to two concepts: first, some previous Canadian leader has been a tyrant in order to earn that distinction, and I would ask you to name the person; second, you acknowledge that -- for the most part, I assume -- our tyrants have been ruling benevolently with kid gloves.

You might want to call Trudeau's recent action tyrannical, but the majority of the country were not supportive of the truckers, they were tired of the negative impact on the economy and their lives, and many felt Trudeau should have acted sooner and even more forcefully; in which case not only is Trudeau a benign/benevolent tyrant, but now a more respected and more loved benign tyrant. The next election will verify that... as we go to the polls to elect our next tyrant.

Reply
 
 
Feb 22, 2022 10:32:23   #
pendennis
 
JohnFrim wrote:
Thanks for the agreement on the deity issue. At least we don't have to get into a discussion on religion.

As for your last statement, tyranny -- like murder or theft -- is a behaviour that can only be defined or determined in retrospect by actions. No one is a murderer, or a thief, or a tyrant until they commit the respective act that defines that behaviour.

Now, if you believe Canada is governed by a velvet-clad fist of benign tyranny then you are attesting to two concepts: first, some previous Canadian leader has been a tyrant in order to earn that distinction, and I would ask you to name the person; second, you acknowledge that -- for the most part, I assume -- our tyrants have been ruling benevolently with kid gloves.

You might want to call Trudeau's recent action tyrannical, but the majority of the country were not supportive of the truckers, they were tired of the negative impact on the economy and their lives, and many felt Trudeau should have acted sooner and even more forcefully; in which case not only is Trudeau a benign/benevolent tyrant, but now a more respected and more loved benign tyrant. The next election will verify that... as we go to the polls to elect our next tyrant.
Thanks for the agreement on the deity issue. At le... (show quote)


Tyranny in English-style democracies goes back well prior to the adoption of Canada's current constitution in 1982. The very concept of the Canadian Constitution runs counter to the basic tenets of the U.S. Constitution. The font of power in Canada (New Zealand, Australia, GB) is with the government; in the United States, it lies with the people. Every prime minister has the "velvet-glove" of tyranny inherently. That Trudeau nakedly displayed it, is not a surprise to anyone who has studied political history. It's no surprise that journalist have a stupid misconception of Canada; they never bothered to study Canadian political history.

Under Canadian law, the truckers did commit violations of law. The Canadian government defines the limits of free speech, and there is no guarantee of redress within Canada's court system. It's not an opinion that U.S. Constitutional Amendments 1, 2, 4, and 5 don't exist in any form in Canada, arguments to the contrary notwithstanding. There is no redress when the Canadian Finance Minister unilaterally freezes bank accounts, etc., without a court order. And that's only a couple of examples.

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Feb 22, 2022 10:47:42   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
JohnFrim wrote:
Thanks for the agreement on the deity issue. At least we don't have to get into a discussion on religion.

As for your last statement, tyranny -- like murder or theft -- is a behaviour that can only be defined or determined in retrospect by actions. No one is a murderer, or a thief, or a tyrant until they commit the respective act that defines that behaviour.

Now, if you believe Canada is governed by a velvet-clad fist of benign tyranny then you are attesting to two concepts: first, some previous Canadian leader has been a tyrant in order to earn that distinction, and I would ask you to name the person; second, you acknowledge that -- for the most part, I assume -- our tyrants have been ruling benevolently with kid gloves.

You might want to call Trudeau's recent action tyrannical, but the majority of the country were not supportive of the truckers, they were tired of the negative impact on the economy and their lives, and many felt Trudeau should have acted sooner and even more forcefully; in which case not only is Trudeau a benign/benevolent tyrant, but now a more respected and more loved benign tyrant. The next election will verify that... as we go to the polls to elect our next tyrant.
Thanks for the agreement on the deity issue. At le... (show quote)


You are forgetting once again that the majority is not always right. Hitler had a majority too and he used it to kill 6 Million Jews after he had convinced the German populace that Jews were bad for the economy and were sub human/Aryan. The German people went right along with him just as you and the Canadian people are going right along with Trudeau. You continue telling us that the majority should be in charge while all along I and others tell you how wrong that is.

The majority of American voters elected Joe Biden. Let's face it my friend even you cannot tell us one good thing Biden has done for the American people, not one, except he beat Trump in the election. That's it. More accurately, That's IT???

You are indeed a very slow learner.

Dennis

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Feb 22, 2022 10:51:00   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
JohnFrim wrote:
Pardon my forwardness, but that is utter crap. The words can say you are endowed rights by your creator, but those rights are only accepted, exercised, and enforced because your government -- YOU, THE PEOPLE -- acknowledge, respect, and abide by them. GOD has nothing to do with your freedom.


You can define CREATOR any way you like. A god, or a natural "force" of any kind. I choose to be an atheist. But something created life. Call it a force as I do. I don't know by what "force" life started. But my ignorance of that fact does not imply divinity. But our rights were NOT granted by government. As long as the people accept the fact that our rights do NOT come from government that's enough for me. If you prefer to live in another system where the government grants you your rights, go ahead. Our government can't keep you here. They dont have that right.and our constitution guarantees it.

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Feb 22, 2022 11:00:20   #
pendennis
 
dennis2146 wrote:
You are forgetting once again that the majority is not always right. Hitler had a majority too and he used it to kill 6 Million Jews after he had convinced the German populace that Jews were bad for the economy and were sub human/Aryan. The German people went right along with him just as you and the Canadian people are going right along with Trudeau. You continue telling us that the majority should be in charge while all along I and others tell you how wrong that is.

The majority of American voters elected Joe Biden. Let's face it my friend even you cannot tell us one good thing Biden has done for the American people, not one, except he beat Trump in the election. That's it. More accurately, That's IT???

You are indeed a very slow learner.

Dennis
You are forgetting once again that the majority is... (show quote)


Disagree. Hitler never had a majority of German "volks" support, when he became chancellor of Germany. The "National Sociaists" never had a majority, and relied on coalitions to gain power. Later through various machinations, he managed to eliminate the remnants of the Weimar Republic.

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