Lens for indoor sports
Nov 22, 2021 11:30:02 #
Gene is correct. The 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 are THE indoor zooms and moving to FF will give you the high ISO performance you need in those dark HS gyms. If you find the 70-200 too heavy for long days shooting, try a 135 f2 prime (and put a matched 1.4EX in your pocket if you need longer reach) or an 85 f1.8 if you can get really close. And Paul is correct also - get closer so you don’t need anything longer than 200.
Nov 22, 2021 12:36:27 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
D500 is fine for this work.
So are 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses, although I don't know if Tamron lenses are as fast focusing and good tracking as Nikon AI-S zooms with the same ranges would be. Forget using the 18-400mm... it's just not up to the task of shooting indoors "under the lights" and isn't a zoom range you need. I don't have one, but wonder if it focuses fast enough and tracks movement well enough either.
Some others have mentioned using primes instead of zooms and that's certainly a good strategy, too. Primes can be one to two stops faster (larger aperture) than f/2.8 zooms, as well as smaller and less expensive. But primes are a lot more limiting though, as to where you will need to stand and what you'll be able to shoot.
For basketball, you simply don't need longer than 200mm, especially on a DX camera.
Did you notice I wrote "where you stand"? Most of the time you should be up, moving around and "working" different shooting locations around the court. Don't just sit in the stands... Especially don't sit higher up and be shooting downward! You need to be eye level with the players or lower. (Note: Occasionally a shot from higher up and even from over the action can be interesting... but this is much more the exception than the rule).
Get as close as you can without interfering with the action or blocking spectators. And don't nail yourself to one spot. Probably most of the action is going to occur near the baskets, so I'd start out at one end of the court or the other. After a while I'd move to the other end or to the sidelines. Where you can go to shoot will vary depending upon the arena. If your emphasis is on one team, you can shoot them defensively at one end and offensively at the other. Squatting down to shoot upward slightly from a lower angle can make for more dramatic jump shots.
Look for different types of shots... close-ups when the play is right in front of you... wider shots when it's farther away. Mix it up. Don't get stuck only taking one type of shot. Experiment. Knowledge of the game also helps you better anticipate action. Over the four quarters of a game you will have repeated opportunities for certain types of images, so don't fret too much if you miss one you wanted. Just watch the action for another, similar opportunity. At the same time, don't just shoot all the same shot. Mix it up. As you get more familiar shooting the team, game and arena, if you experiment you will probably find more and more types of shots you like to try to take.
You might already know...
With a DSLR I'd probably use a single AF point or a small group of points most of the time. That way you control precisely where the camera and lens focus. Don't just turn on all the AF points and let the camera auto select. It will focus on something you don't want more often than not. (Some of the mirrorless cameras are amazing at their "stickiness", but that would be an expensive transition because right now you'd probably need to change systems. A few years down the road Nikon might have the mirrorless cameras, mirrorless autofocus systems and mirrorless lenses for fast action sports... but they don't right now. The upcoming Z9 tells us they are certainly working on it, though.)
Your camera needs to be in AF-C mode, "continuous auto focus". That's necessary to track moving subjects.
If not already doing so, you also might want to experiment with Back Button Focusing. A lot of sports shooters use it.
Your D500 has a feature called "Anti-Flicker" or something like that. Turn it on when shooting under the lights. The lighting in sports arenas is typically a type that cycles on and off rapidly, like sodium vapor or fluorescent. Although we don't notice the rapid cycling of the lights with our eyes, it causes all sorts of exposure problems with cameras. The anti-flicker feature (set to 60hz in the US, 50hz in some other parts of the world... or just left in auto mode) will detect the cycling of the lights and time the shutter releases to match the peak output. This works very well and solves a lot of exposure problems. You'll see far, far fewer badly underexposed images at the end of the day. Once in a while anti-flicker may cause a slight delay in shutter release... enough to cause a missed shot. But that's relatively rare. Usually you won't even know its working.
Some Nikon shooters feel it's best to turn off their Nikkor's VR.... that leaving it on slows AF slightly. There seems to be some evidence to support this. I don't know if this is the case with Tamron VC, when used on Nikon cameras. (FWIW, I feel it's the opposite with the Canon IS lenses I use... that the stabilization actually helps AF work faster and better... but I have no definitive proof other than 20 years experience using IS lenses.) Shooting sports with a relatively high shutter speed to freeze subject, image stabilization might not be very necessary anyway.
Speaking of shutter speed, you will probably need 1/500 or faster, depending upon how close the subjects are, their direction of movement and some other factors. There may be times you want slower speeds for deliberate blur effects, but most of the time should use as fast a shutter speed as you dare. The lighting conditions will dictate how fast you can use, because you will need to boost your camera's ISO. How much "noise" do you find tolerable? It's another thing to experiment with. In part it depends upon how large you'll be using the images. If it's relatively small (8x10 or smaller) with little or no cropping... or even just displayed online at lower resolutions... you probably can use a lot higher ISO than you think. Getting good exposures (with the help of anti-flicker) can really help because images that need the exposure boosted in post-processing will show more noise. You also might benefit from shooting RAW and some careful noise reduction in post-processing.
Depending upon the lighting in the arena, you might try setting a custom white balance. Doing so may be a problem, though, if the lighting "color" varies from one shooting position to the next or if it changes during the game (such as a mix of daylight and artificial that shifts over time as the sun moves and sets). You almost have to get to the arena early and go onto the floor to do some tests to set a good custom WB. So you wouldn't have opportunity to change the custom WB during the game. Thankfully, if you shoot RAW there is lots of latitude to correct white balance later. That can still be tricky, though, when it's a mix of types of lighting.
Hope this helps!
P.S. Personally I haven't shot basketball much. But I have shot a variety of other sports.... some of them a lot!
So are 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses, although I don't know if Tamron lenses are as fast focusing and good tracking as Nikon AI-S zooms with the same ranges would be. Forget using the 18-400mm... it's just not up to the task of shooting indoors "under the lights" and isn't a zoom range you need. I don't have one, but wonder if it focuses fast enough and tracks movement well enough either.
Some others have mentioned using primes instead of zooms and that's certainly a good strategy, too. Primes can be one to two stops faster (larger aperture) than f/2.8 zooms, as well as smaller and less expensive. But primes are a lot more limiting though, as to where you will need to stand and what you'll be able to shoot.
For basketball, you simply don't need longer than 200mm, especially on a DX camera.
Did you notice I wrote "where you stand"? Most of the time you should be up, moving around and "working" different shooting locations around the court. Don't just sit in the stands... Especially don't sit higher up and be shooting downward! You need to be eye level with the players or lower. (Note: Occasionally a shot from higher up and even from over the action can be interesting... but this is much more the exception than the rule).
Get as close as you can without interfering with the action or blocking spectators. And don't nail yourself to one spot. Probably most of the action is going to occur near the baskets, so I'd start out at one end of the court or the other. After a while I'd move to the other end or to the sidelines. Where you can go to shoot will vary depending upon the arena. If your emphasis is on one team, you can shoot them defensively at one end and offensively at the other. Squatting down to shoot upward slightly from a lower angle can make for more dramatic jump shots.
Look for different types of shots... close-ups when the play is right in front of you... wider shots when it's farther away. Mix it up. Don't get stuck only taking one type of shot. Experiment. Knowledge of the game also helps you better anticipate action. Over the four quarters of a game you will have repeated opportunities for certain types of images, so don't fret too much if you miss one you wanted. Just watch the action for another, similar opportunity. At the same time, don't just shoot all the same shot. Mix it up. As you get more familiar shooting the team, game and arena, if you experiment you will probably find more and more types of shots you like to try to take.
You might already know...
With a DSLR I'd probably use a single AF point or a small group of points most of the time. That way you control precisely where the camera and lens focus. Don't just turn on all the AF points and let the camera auto select. It will focus on something you don't want more often than not. (Some of the mirrorless cameras are amazing at their "stickiness", but that would be an expensive transition because right now you'd probably need to change systems. A few years down the road Nikon might have the mirrorless cameras, mirrorless autofocus systems and mirrorless lenses for fast action sports... but they don't right now. The upcoming Z9 tells us they are certainly working on it, though.)
Your camera needs to be in AF-C mode, "continuous auto focus". That's necessary to track moving subjects.
If not already doing so, you also might want to experiment with Back Button Focusing. A lot of sports shooters use it.
Your D500 has a feature called "Anti-Flicker" or something like that. Turn it on when shooting under the lights. The lighting in sports arenas is typically a type that cycles on and off rapidly, like sodium vapor or fluorescent. Although we don't notice the rapid cycling of the lights with our eyes, it causes all sorts of exposure problems with cameras. The anti-flicker feature (set to 60hz in the US, 50hz in some other parts of the world... or just left in auto mode) will detect the cycling of the lights and time the shutter releases to match the peak output. This works very well and solves a lot of exposure problems. You'll see far, far fewer badly underexposed images at the end of the day. Once in a while anti-flicker may cause a slight delay in shutter release... enough to cause a missed shot. But that's relatively rare. Usually you won't even know its working.
Some Nikon shooters feel it's best to turn off their Nikkor's VR.... that leaving it on slows AF slightly. There seems to be some evidence to support this. I don't know if this is the case with Tamron VC, when used on Nikon cameras. (FWIW, I feel it's the opposite with the Canon IS lenses I use... that the stabilization actually helps AF work faster and better... but I have no definitive proof other than 20 years experience using IS lenses.) Shooting sports with a relatively high shutter speed to freeze subject, image stabilization might not be very necessary anyway.
Speaking of shutter speed, you will probably need 1/500 or faster, depending upon how close the subjects are, their direction of movement and some other factors. There may be times you want slower speeds for deliberate blur effects, but most of the time should use as fast a shutter speed as you dare. The lighting conditions will dictate how fast you can use, because you will need to boost your camera's ISO. How much "noise" do you find tolerable? It's another thing to experiment with. In part it depends upon how large you'll be using the images. If it's relatively small (8x10 or smaller) with little or no cropping... or even just displayed online at lower resolutions... you probably can use a lot higher ISO than you think. Getting good exposures (with the help of anti-flicker) can really help because images that need the exposure boosted in post-processing will show more noise. You also might benefit from shooting RAW and some careful noise reduction in post-processing.
Depending upon the lighting in the arena, you might try setting a custom white balance. Doing so may be a problem, though, if the lighting "color" varies from one shooting position to the next or if it changes during the game (such as a mix of daylight and artificial that shifts over time as the sun moves and sets). You almost have to get to the arena early and go onto the floor to do some tests to set a good custom WB. So you wouldn't have opportunity to change the custom WB during the game. Thankfully, if you shoot RAW there is lots of latitude to correct white balance later. That can still be tricky, though, when it's a mix of types of lighting.
Hope this helps!
P.S. Personally I haven't shot basketball much. But I have shot a variety of other sports.... some of them a lot!
Nov 22, 2021 13:09:34 #
Nov 22, 2021 13:15:57 #
rbtree
Loc: Shoreline, WA, United States
Amfoto's response is detailed and excellent.
I know the D500's crop sensor produces cleaner images than my Canon 7D II, at higher ISO's needed for indoor shooting. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO, and work on your noise reduction skills in post.
And concentrate on the 70-200... even with a 2x attached, and certainly a 1.4, it will be better than that 18-400.
By the way, I have the Canon version of that lens, but only got it for the times when I don't want to bring out all my expensive glass, or for a quick travel trip where quality images aren't the prime purpose of the trip. It's and adequate lens, for what it is, but being slow, notisn't the best for indoors..same goes for my excellent Tammy 150-600 G2.
I know the D500's crop sensor produces cleaner images than my Canon 7D II, at higher ISO's needed for indoor shooting. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO, and work on your noise reduction skills in post.
And concentrate on the 70-200... even with a 2x attached, and certainly a 1.4, it will be better than that 18-400.
By the way, I have the Canon version of that lens, but only got it for the times when I don't want to bring out all my expensive glass, or for a quick travel trip where quality images aren't the prime purpose of the trip. It's and adequate lens, for what it is, but being slow, notisn't the best for indoors..same goes for my excellent Tammy 150-600 G2.
Nov 22, 2021 13:21:16 #
Wags wrote:
Basketball for grade/middle/high school is getting... (show quote)
You will find many advantages of using an f2 or larger lens - most important of which is the better AF !
I already mentioned the Nikon 135 f2 but the 105 f2 could also work very well if you do not need the length - and just crop a bit. Fast accurate AF should be the highest priority for you - and is also why you should be using a Nikon lens.
.
Nov 22, 2021 13:27:33 #
nealbralley
Loc: Kansas
See if you can get closer to the “field” and with your D 500, use the 70-200 at f/2.8. Push the ISO up as necessary. If you need to go up to 6400 or so, so be it. Ask and answer only this question when dealing with low light and high ISO situations: “Do you want the shot or not?” Nothing wrong with a little grain, and if you catch some noise, so what! Tell the critics to take a hike!
I think you are going to be fine for shots within range. You simply can’t expect to get every shot on the other end of the field, and especially indoors, with any reasonably priced consumer lens.
With many sports, when the quarter changes, the action will likely come back your way!
I think you are going to be fine for shots within range. You simply can’t expect to get every shot on the other end of the field, and especially indoors, with any reasonably priced consumer lens.
With many sports, when the quarter changes, the action will likely come back your way!
Nov 22, 2021 14:19:08 #
Wags wrote:
Basketball for grade/middle/high school is getting... (show quote)
Your lens are fine, the only thing I can say is shoot tight, then the Iso is not going to matter to much.
This shot is at 1/1250 at 2.8 iso 10,000
I cleaned the noise up a bit in Topaz Denoise Ai
2nd shot iso at 5000.
So with your 70-200 remember from behind the basket the lens is good up to half court until you get poor images when cropping a lot.
Nov 22, 2021 15:16:16 #
Agree, you don't need another lens. You've already got FX glass, now, you need an FX body. My D750 would work perfectly in those situations, as, in addition to great low-light capabilities, it has a built-in flash that can boost the light just enough to fill-in the players, while keeping the back-ground pleasantly illuminated by the ambient light. The crop-factor of your D500 prevents your 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 lenses from reaching as wide as you need.
Nov 22, 2021 15:24:14 #
Agree, you don't need another lens. You've already got FX glass, now, you need an FX body. My D750 would work perfectly in those situations, as, in addition to great low-light capabilities, it has a built-in flash that can boost the light just enough to fill-in the players, while keeping the back-ground pleasantly illuminated by the ambient light. The crop-factor of your D500 prevents your 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 lenses from reaching as wide as you need.
Nov 22, 2021 15:40:21 #
amfoto1 wrote:
D500 is fine for this work. br br So are 24-70mm... (show quote)
Perfect information. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Nov 22, 2021 15:42:08 #
ELNikkor wrote:
Agree, you don't need another lens. You've already got FX glass, now, you need an FX body. My D750 would work perfectly in those situations, as, in addition to great low-light capabilities, it has a built-in flash that can boost the light just enough to fill-in the players, while keeping the back-ground pleasantly illuminated by the ambient light. The crop-factor of your D500 prevents your 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 lenses from reaching as wide as you need.
I shoot with a Nikon D500 and D4 and have found the 500 is better in low light and focusing speed.
Nov 22, 2021 16:46:01 #
Jules Karney wrote:
Your lens are fine, the only thing I can say is shoot tight, then the Iso is not going to matter to much.
This shot is at 1/1250 at 2.8 iso 10,000
I cleaned the noise up a bit in Topaz Denoise Ai
2nd shot iso at 5000.
So with your 70-200 remember from behind the basket the lens is good up to half court until you get poor images when cropping a lot.
This shot is at 1/1250 at 2.8 iso 10,000
I cleaned the noise up a bit in Topaz Denoise Ai
2nd shot iso at 5000.
So with your 70-200 remember from behind the basket the lens is good up to half court until you get poor images when cropping a lot.
Perfection 🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Nov 22, 2021 17:30:15 #
I have both a FF Canon with a 70-200 f2.8 and Fuji crop body with a 50-140 f2.8. The Fuji is good to ISO 6,400 before noise becomes an issue, but the Canon FF is good to 12,800, and that extra stop can be the difference between 1/250 and 1/500 SS for example, which is the difference between motion blur and a sharp image. The FF weighs more, but when you’re shooting in low light, every stop counts. I shoot indoor HS sports dozens of times a year, and that’s what drove me from crop to FF for indoor sports.
Nov 22, 2021 17:54:26 #
Shoot with a Canon 7DMarkII for sports. Indoor I use a Tamron 70-200 F2.8. Set your ISO to 6400-10000. Get some great shots... Damn thing is a bit heavy but worth the results...
Nov 22, 2021 18:10:34 #
Folks the OP is actual asking for...
"...lens suggestions for shooting indoors. Thanks in advance. Budget? $1,000-ish..."
And Wags is shooting with the Nikon D500 the premiere DX Pro Body...
Yet so many suggestions here are pretty much ignoring Wags query...
Why? There are a multitude of ways to shoot indoor sports, however maybe please speak to Wags request, k?
Wags provided you have access to the floor of the gym, (which btw, is basically essential for commercial caliber i.e. publication quality imagery.) A 24-70 angle of view (court side) is likely an appropriate and very germane choice.
While I don't shot indoor sports I do shoot events Wags.
My lens of choice is a fast f/2.8 constant aperture, which isn't over priced and it certain gets the job done.
The superb AF 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC OS HSM Sigma for Nikon.
Here's a current option to purchase this optic (previously owned) for just $216 from Lens Rentals.
https://www.lensrentals.com/buy/root/photo/nikon/lenses/wide-angle/sigma-17-50mm-f2.8-ex-dc-hsm-os-for-nikon-dx
Would suggest you read Roger's (Founder & CEO of lensrentals) take on this magnificent piece of kit...
Which btw, has a 25-75mm angle of view on a DX body...
Mine is razor sharp in the center at f/2.8 and the edges are also by f/4.
lensrentals believes in this lens and so do I (from experience).
In my humble estimation this fast constant aperture stellar Sigma mid-range zoom takes the cake! See below...
Wishing you all the best Wags...
.
"...lens suggestions for shooting indoors. Thanks in advance. Budget? $1,000-ish..."
And Wags is shooting with the Nikon D500 the premiere DX Pro Body...
Yet so many suggestions here are pretty much ignoring Wags query...
Why? There are a multitude of ways to shoot indoor sports, however maybe please speak to Wags request, k?
Wags provided you have access to the floor of the gym, (which btw, is basically essential for commercial caliber i.e. publication quality imagery.) A 24-70 angle of view (court side) is likely an appropriate and very germane choice.
While I don't shot indoor sports I do shoot events Wags.
My lens of choice is a fast f/2.8 constant aperture, which isn't over priced and it certain gets the job done.
The superb AF 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC OS HSM Sigma for Nikon.
Here's a current option to purchase this optic (previously owned) for just $216 from Lens Rentals.
https://www.lensrentals.com/buy/root/photo/nikon/lenses/wide-angle/sigma-17-50mm-f2.8-ex-dc-hsm-os-for-nikon-dx
Would suggest you read Roger's (Founder & CEO of lensrentals) take on this magnificent piece of kit...
Which btw, has a 25-75mm angle of view on a DX body...
Mine is razor sharp in the center at f/2.8 and the edges are also by f/4.
lensrentals believes in this lens and so do I (from experience).
In my humble estimation this fast constant aperture stellar Sigma mid-range zoom takes the cake! See below...
Wishing you all the best Wags...
.
Shot with my DX mid-range workhorse the stellar AF 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC OS HSM Sigma for Nikon
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