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Covid Vaccine Mandates verses Patriotism?
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Sep 13, 2021 09:33:08   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Mark Sturtevant wrote:
I've been collecting some cartoons for these occasions.









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Sep 13, 2021 09:35:55   #
bamfordr Loc: Campbell CA
 
Setting aside the issues of patriotism and consideration for your neighbors, every infection is an opportunity for the virus to mutate. The more mutations, the greater likelihood that the virus will develop vaccine resistance. And the greater the likelihood that that will become the dominant strain.

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Sep 13, 2021 09:39:52   #
DebAnn Loc: Toronto
 
Bison Bud wrote:
Like many others out there, I don't much care for being forced to do something and I'd fight for our right to make our own decisions on this issue or any other. However, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to over the past 2 months that have told me they won't get vaccinated, because it violates their rights as an "American." Virtually all of these people then went off on some sort of patriotic ramble as an attempt to justify their decision for not getting the vaccine. Somehow, I just don't get it and using patriotism as an excuse for not making an intelligent and practical choice is just beyond my ability to understand. While the government has tried to mandate vaccinations for all Federal employees, it is still the choice of those employees as to whether or not to comply. It's just like a private company deciding to require vaccinations and is well within their rights to do so. This is not an infringement on anyone's rights! While it may not be popular, everyone still has the choice whether to comply or not, it just makes the stakes a bit higher when it requires someone to give up their job, etc. if they don't comply (and that's exactly why they are doing it). Anyway, my point is that the choice is still there, they are simply applying pressure to get as many as possible to take the vaccine. Right or wrong, it is well within their rights to do so and not getting your vaccination for "Patriotic" reasons is simply not a valid arguement! Flame me if you want, but this whole thing is just stupid and I don't do well with stupid!
Like many others out there, I don't much care for ... (show quote)


Yes, you're right on this. What the antivaxxers don't acknowledge is there are many things on which you don't have rights to choose. You can't drive a car without a license; you can't fly to another country without a passport; you can't own a gun without a permit. In Canada at least, your kids can't attend school without being vaccinated against things like Smallpox, polio, measles, among others. (How do they think the world has eradicated those diseases?) They should understand that if their choice is to not get the vaccine, then they should isolate themselves from the rest of us who have. Also, when they get Covid they should not expect our overworked health care workers to care for them in hospitals.

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Sep 13, 2021 09:41:43   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
BS!!! I'm vaccinated, that was my personal choice. Mandating vaccinations is WRONG no matter how you look at it!

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Sep 13, 2021 09:42:10   #
LVP Loc: Seekonk, MA
 
bobmcculloch wrote:
Basic Question:
Do you trust YOUR GOVERNMENT?


And what is it that you mistrust about this issue?
Enough so that you choose to put the health of fellow "right to live" citizens in peril?

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Sep 13, 2021 09:48:57   #
PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA
 
Is the vaccine appropriate or is it not? If people would look back on history of other diseases and illnesses, ones like small pox and polio come to mind quickly, the use of vaccines was the most effective and useful method to reduce the spread and the horrible results of those diseases. When I, and millions of others, were preparing to enter kindergarten or first grade there was a requirement to be vaccinated against small pox. Very few people resisted or refused to get the vaccination. That disease has been all but eliminated from the world and school age children no longer must receive the vaccine. Similarly, polio has been nearly eliminated due to the work of Jonas Salk and the requirement of children and adults to receive the vaccine. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.

The argument of personal free choice is best described as one of my teachers in HS related to his classes. He quoted someone, I don't recall who, that said, "Your right to wave your arms in the air ends where my nose begins." A mandate to protect oneself and others against a deadly disease is a positive for the world, refusal to follow it has a negative impact. Masks have been shown (proven) to decrease the spread of disease and vaccines have proven extremely effective in helping to eradicate disease.

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Sep 13, 2021 09:50:08   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Jandjeby14 wrote:
I think this says it al! When we live with others we have responsibilities to be sensitive to their welfare. I don't like speed limits, or zoning laws, or jay walking laws or laws against excessive noise. If we want the protection regulations on others provide and police protections when others violate our rights, we need to comply with some things we do not prefer. Simple common sense and the price for living in a good, civil society.


Perhaps the best post on this subject that I've read.

Succinct and to the point, as well.

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Sep 13, 2021 09:53:36   #
gsmith051 Loc: Fairfield Glade, TN
 
Bison Bud wrote:
Like many others out there, I don't much care for being forced to do something and I'd fight for our right to make our own decisions on this issue or any other. However, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to over the past 2 months that have told me they won't get vaccinated, because it violates their rights as an "American." Virtually all of these people then went off on some sort of patriotic ramble as an attempt to justify their decision for not getting the vaccine. Somehow, I just don't get it and using patriotism as an excuse for not making an intelligent and practical choice is just beyond my ability to understand. While the government has tried to mandate vaccinations for all Federal employees, it is still the choice of those employees as to whether or not to comply. It's just like a private company deciding to require vaccinations and is well within their rights to do so. This is not an infringement on anyone's rights! While it may not be popular, everyone still has the choice whether to comply or not, it just makes the stakes a bit higher when it requires someone to give up their job, etc. if they don't comply (and that's exactly why they are doing it). Anyway, my point is that the choice is still there, they are simply applying pressure to get as many as possible to take the vaccine. Right or wrong, it is well within their rights to do so and not getting your vaccination for "Patriotic" reasons is simply not a valid arguement! Flame me if you want, but this whole thing is just stupid and I don't do well with stupid!
Like many others out there, I don't much care for ... (show quote)

I guess they weren’t around when polio hit. Back then people couldn’t wait to get vaccinated. My wife caught the disease just before the Salk vaccine came out. You have no idea how much she has suffered since she was five years old. This is all political except for the people who can’t get vaccinated for medical reasons. My daughter can get blood clots and die so it is a toss up for her. It’s not about rights; it’s above saving lives.

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Sep 13, 2021 09:53:49   #
Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.
 
Bison Bud wrote:
Like many others out there, I don't much care for being forced to do something and I'd fight for our right to make our own decisions on this issue or any other. However, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to over the past 2 months that have told me they won't get vaccinated, because it violates their rights as an "American." Virtually all of these people then went off on some sort of patriotic ramble as an attempt to justify their decision for not getting the vaccine. Somehow, I just don't get it and using patriotism as an excuse for not making an intelligent and practical choice is just beyond my ability to understand. While the government has tried to mandate vaccinations for all Federal employees, it is still the choice of those employees as to whether or not to comply. It's just like a private company deciding to require vaccinations and is well within their rights to do so. This is not an infringement on anyone's rights! While it may not be popular, everyone still has the choice whether to comply or not, it just makes the stakes a bit higher when it requires someone to give up their job, etc. if they don't comply (and that's exactly why they are doing it). Anyway, my point is that the choice is still there, they are simply applying pressure to get as many as possible to take the vaccine. Right or wrong, it is well within their rights to do so and not getting your vaccination for "Patriotic" reasons is simply not a valid arguement! Flame me if you want, but this whole thing is just stupid and I don't do well with stupid!
Like many others out there, I don't much care for ... (show quote)


There is more to patriotism than waving a flag. Patriotism means love of country. How can someone claim to be a patriot if they don’t do what’s best for their country and all of it’s citizens?

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Sep 13, 2021 10:00:52   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
Bison Bud wrote:
Like many others out there, I don't much care for being forced to do something and I'd fight for our right to make our own decisions on this issue or any other. However, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to over the past 2 months that have told me they won't get vaccinated, because it violates their rights as an "American." Virtually all of these people then went off on some sort of patriotic ramble as an attempt to justify their decision for not getting the vaccine. Somehow, I just don't get it and using patriotism as an excuse for not making an intelligent and practical choice is just beyond my ability to understand. While the government has tried to mandate vaccinations for all Federal employees, it is still the choice of those employees as to whether or not to comply. It's just like a private company deciding to require vaccinations and is well within their rights to do so. This is not an infringement on anyone's rights! While it may not be popular, everyone still has the choice whether to comply or not, it just makes the stakes a bit higher when it requires someone to give up their job, etc. if they don't comply (and that's exactly why they are doing it). Anyway, my point is that the choice is still there, they are simply applying pressure to get as many as possible to take the vaccine. Right or wrong, it is well within their rights to do so and not getting your vaccination for "Patriotic" reasons is simply not a valid arguement! Flame me if you want, but this whole thing is just stupid and I don't do well with stupid!
Like many others out there, I don't much care for ... (show quote)


I agree totally. Why aren't these phonies also protesting the requirement for school kids to be vaccinated for polio, measles, etc, etc? And back in the day, smallpox? Why aren't they protesting company's requirement to wear shoes or be clothed before coming into the store? And on and on.

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Sep 13, 2021 10:01:58   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
The hold-outs against the vaccination for the Chinese killer virus continue to conflate the interests of the public health with their personal freedom (AKA choice).

The virus has no brain to distinguish whom it infects. The virus does not do the dance of politics. No material connection exists between the U.S. Constitution and the operation of the virus, only a vague claim of freedom.

Vaccination serves the interests of the public health apart from notions of personal freedom.
Bison Bud wrote:
Like many others out there, I don't much care for being forced to do something and I'd fight for our right to make our own decisions on this issue or any other. However, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to over the past 2 months that have told me they won't get vaccinated, because it violates their rights as an "American." Virtually all of these people then went off on some sort of patriotic ramble as an attempt to justify their decision for not getting the vaccine. Somehow, I just don't get it and using patriotism as an excuse for not making an intelligent and practical choice is just beyond my ability to understand. While the government has tried to mandate vaccinations for all Federal employees, it is still the choice of those employees as to whether or not to comply. It's just like a private company deciding to require vaccinations and is well within their rights to do so. This is not an infringement on anyone's rights! While it may not be popular, everyone still has the choice whether to comply or not, it just makes the stakes a bit higher when it requires someone to give up their job, etc. if they don't comply (and that's exactly why they are doing it). Anyway, my point is that the choice is still there, they are simply applying pressure to get as many as possible to take the vaccine. Right or wrong, it is well within their rights to do so and not getting your vaccination for "Patriotic" reasons is simply not a valid arguement! Flame me if you want, but this whole thing is just stupid and I don't do well with stupid!
Like many others out there, I don't much care for ... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Sep 13, 2021 10:02:12   #
craneman
 
It is pretty hard to trust a vaccine when the president, Joe Biden and the vice president, Kamala Harris both said on national TV that they would not get the vaccine that Trump had anything to do with.

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Sep 13, 2021 10:04:51   #
pendennis
 
DebAnn wrote:
Yes, you're right on this. What the antivaxxers don't acknowledge is there are many things on which you don't have rights to choose. You can't drive a car without a license; you can't fly to another country without a passport; you can't own a gun without a permit. In Canada at least, your kids can't attend school without being vaccinated against things like Smallpox, polio, measles, among others. (How do they think the world has eradicated those diseases?) They should understand that if their choice is to not get the vaccine, then they should isolate themselves from the rest of us who have. Also, when they get Covid they should not expect our overworked health care workers to care for them in hospitals.
Yes, you're right on this. What the antivaxxers do... (show quote)


There's a huge distinction between rights and privileges, at least here in the U.S.

First, you do not need a license or permit to exercise a right. It's a right to vote, speak freely, own a gun, live in privacy, practice religion, and many others both enumerated and nonenumerated in the U.S. Constitution.

It's a privilege to drive a car, since you generally use publicly dedicated and tax paid roads. Yes, vaccinations can be required for attending schools, since folks cede certain rights for the privileges of public education.

Rights end "at the end of the other person's nose", as the adage goes. You don't have a right to impose a cost on someone else; that's a violation of another's rights. Only rights can be exercised without cost.

If you choose to live isolated, that's your privilege.

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Sep 13, 2021 10:05:03   #
Triple G
 
craneman wrote:
It is pretty hard to trust a vaccine when the president, Joe Biden and the vice president, Kamala Harris both said on national TV that they would not get the vaccine that Trump had anything to do with.


Oh, Please! Like you take heed of anything they say.

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Sep 13, 2021 10:10:01   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Yes, it will be moved there soon enough.

Headline today - a man in Alabama died from heart problems because he could not get into a hospital. They tried forty-three hospitals - no ICU beds available. Shortly after he was able to find a hospital bed, he passed away.

"...was eventually transferred to a Mississippi hospital about 200 miles away, died at 73 on Sept. 1 — three days shy of his birthday."

Hospital beds are filling up with people who exercised their American freedom of choice and chose not to get a vaccine that would keep them out of the hospital. If I ran a hospital, all the un-vaccinated Covid patients would be in a tent in the parking lot - or home watching TV.
Yes, it will be moved there soon enough. br br He... (show quote)


As I have said many times: "It is a moral obligation of members of society to do what is necessary to limit disease and death in others. That means getting vaccinated!"

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