B&W question (Page 5): Would like to ask you some questions about the mono Leica. I have a Sony A6300 that has been modified. This is only a hobby to me and a Leica would be out of my...

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

Nicestuffpix wrote:

I'm fortunate enough to have monochrome digital se... (show quote)

Would like to ask you some questions about the mono Leica. I have a Sony A6300 that has been modified. This is only a hobby to me and a Leica would be out of my reach. And of course, the camera has no idea that it is now a mono camera. That means that if I were to take JPEGs, the camera would automatically do demosaicing defeating the purpose of shooting in mono. So the only real option is to shoot RAW and to process those RAWs with an App called monochrome2DNG to produce mono DNG files which can then be processed as desired.

With Leica, I am assuming no such problem. And the camera should be aware that it is monochrome and process the JPEGs accordingly. How are the RAWs handled? How do you process the RAWs? Perhaps Leica outputs something like a mono DNG file that does not need to be preprocessed.

I have wondered how Leica goes about this.

Thanks

Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb

B&W is different when viewing as a color photographer. We have to learn how to see in B&W. One way is to shoot RAW and JPG with the camera set on B&W, if you have a Canon camera, because this will give you the view and JPG in B&W but the RAW in color. Doing this you get the best of both worlds by seeing the B&W image with your eye tom learn what to look for, shadings, have a BW picture as well as a color version to work with in RAW.

alphadog

YES, still do BW images...

shoot in color and convert **
** how and when is a BIG factor
depending on what software YOU have
Each trip from color to B&W may and usually does give you different options and RESULTS
Finding a path that works for YOU is the challenge
IF you meet someone who makes great images, ask them HOW they do it...
Some photographers are more friendly, most of the best want you to attend their workshops...

good luck

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

b top gun wrote:

For a long time I used Lightroom to convert to monochrome, at the urging of the local pro lab who printed my images. However, say it ain't so, yet, on a recent Nikon holiday to Puget Sound and the Bonneville Dam in July I took several shots with my D850 set for monochrome and to my surprise the RAW files for those images had no color at all to them!

I'm guessing you are using Nikon Software to process your raw files. It defaults to your in-camera settings. You can turn that off in the software and all the colors will return.

smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL

Using a monochrome camera, shooting with a bayer array camera, or a Foveon camera to shoot B&W is a choice. One isn't better than the other, as so many have said there're just tools. Pick the one that works best for your art. For me using a monochrome camera is my choice, thats what works for my art.

Monochrome camera's have many advantages, such as 1EV more sensitivity/noise reduction, higher resolution, and bigger dynamic range. The downside is that the color image's reduction to monochrome luminance values occurs at exposure time, just like a film camera with TRI-X, and cannot be then changed. Which means you need to use filters if you want to alter the color sensitivities at exposure time. There is a look to monochrome images that strongly resembles large format B&W photography. One note though, while the best results are to be had from shooting raw and using a monochrome conversion program such as Monochrome2DNG the JPG's produced at least the Nikon camera are quite good.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Lucian wrote:

That does not make sense, because you are not view... (show quote)

You haven't considered that he might be using a mirrorless camera In which case he would be able to see monochrome through the viewfinder. An EVF can display the results of all your in-camera settings prior to capturing an image. It's one of several advantages of using a mirrorless camera over a DSLR.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

smf85 wrote:

Using a monochrome camera, shooting with a bayer a... (show quote)

With the monochrome converted camera, the JPEGs out of the camera have been demosaiced and will have lost some detail. They may look good, but they are really not showing as much detail. No way around that. Best JPEGs have to come from conversion to JPEG after the RAW has been converted to mono DNG. That way, no demosaicing has been done.

This isn't the case with Leica which has firmware written to take advantage of the mono sensor. Not going to hold my breath for Nikon or Sony to release a SW update that makes it fix this deficiency.

I did send a suggestion to DxO that they allow their product work with mono RAW files since that would make it possible to use DeepPrime and lens correction and other stuff. Did get a reply that it would take a new release of their SW, and no confirmation that it will ever happen.

DKehrli

I usually shoot in color and then use Photoshop to convert to Band W. I often play with each of the colors to see how it affects the black and white photo. Not sure I'd have that option if I shot in b and w within the camera.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

DKehrli wrote:

Not sure I'd have that option if I shot in b and w within the camera.

That is true, you won't have that option. But it is a tradeoff. With a monochrome camera, you decide ahead of time what filter to use with the knowledge that the end result will be better than you could have gotten by shooting in color and then picking the filter in post processing.

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

JimH123 wrote:

That is true, you won't have that option. But it is a tradeoff. With a monochrome camera, you decide ahead of time what filter to use with the knowledge that the end result will be better than you could have gotten by shooting in color and then picking the filter in post processing.

I can see how perhaps using a polarizer with a monochrome camera may have some benefit but I'm curious how using say an orange filter on the camera would be "better" than using an orange filter in post on a color file.

And, what if you need (want) different filters for different parts of the image?

smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL

jackm1943 wrote:

I can see how perhaps using a polarizer with a monochrome camera may have some benefit but I'm curious how using say an orange filter on the camera would be "better" than using an orange filter in post on a color file.

And, what if you need (want) different filters for different parts of the image?

I don’t think it’s a question of ‘better’ - better is subjective.

Objectively, using a orange filter on a monochrome camera emphasizes light at the center point of the filter band pass. Luminance values are generated directly by the orange filtered light falling on the chip.

Putting an orange filter with a CFA array the results is then filtered further by the array - broken down to its red and green components. When converted to monochrome the result is an approximation of the filter’s light emphasis based on the band pass of the CFA array’s filters. Not the same.

Using multiple filters with a monochrome camera would require multiple exposures which are then stacked and masked. Cumbersome but accurate.

Still they’re simply different tools that give different results. Neither is better than the other. Art is subjective - which one lets you create the images closest to your vision? Go with that one.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

jackm1943 wrote:

I can see how perhaps using a polarizer with a monochrome camera may have some benefit but I'm curious how using say an orange filter on the camera would be "better" than using an orange filter in post on a color file.

And, what if you need (want) different filters for different parts of the image?

Two ways that the monochrome image will look better:

1. The improved detail is noticeably better since there is no Demosaicing the image. And Demosaicing does reduce detail and tends to add tiny artifacts.

2. The gray tones of the image are better. Every image I try, I can't match the gray tones from the monochrome camera. Since there is no Demosaicing, there are no averaging of pixels and the result is a truer grayscale of the image.

Alan1729 Loc: England UK, now New York State.

The way remember it was that I either put kodachrome or tri-x in the camera and it always looked the same through the viewfinder. It was only when it was processed that there was a differnce. Of course you look at the scene differently for each film. That is what I still do.

smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL

JimH123 wrote:

With the monochrome converted camera, the JPEGs ou... (show quote)

I’m not sure detail would be lost, more likely the luminance values of the detail would be of slightly lower accuracy. The demosaic algorithm would see the greyscale image as greyscale and keep it that way. But it would still apply color cast correction and that would alter the output. Hence lower accuracy of the resulting greys.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Alan1729 wrote:

The way remember it was that I either put kodachrome or tri-x in the camera and it always looked the same through the viewfinder. It was only when it was processed that there was a differnce. Of course you look at the scene differently for each film. That is what I still do.

Great point! In fact, even as I shoot B&W film today in 2021, all I see in the viewfinder is a full-color image. When I chimp the results, I notice again the film camera doesn't even have an LCD display nor histogram of the exposure.