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Aug 21, 2021 08:31:41   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
"Bridezilla and Momzilla" to me are bad words- disrespectful and rude! Bad business!

In almost 60-yers of wedding coverage, I always treat the ladies- brides, moms, in-laws and bridesmaids like my own mom, sister, wife and daughter and granddaughters.

Sadly, I lost my mother when I was 14-years old- she was only 39. I know, had she lived to attend my wedding, she would have been nervous and fussing to make everything as perfect as possible.

Most of the brides I have served were great! Some were nervous, a few fainted, some lashed out at family members or me (because they were stressed out) but they all managed to soldier through the day, enjoy the celebrations and were grateful for the good pictures that reulted. I will hazard a guess that 90% of the enjoyed the photographic part of their day!

I have a very good memory- almost total recall, and I can't remember a weddingg shoot where anyone seriously interfered with my work. I get along well with the moms- when I was young, they thought I was cute. Now that I am a big old man with a gray beard and endowed with a chronic case of perma-frown, they probably are afraid to bother me. Kidding aside, a little bit of kindness and compassion will preclude most problems. My fees ain't cheap, so maybe they feel if they mess with me, they will be messing with their investment.

I don't know where all this negative criticism of the girls and weddings is coming from, misogyny, impatience, or worse misogamy- the hatred of marriage???!

As for control- I tell my potential clients that I do not want to be a WEDDING DICTATOR! If they want a good mixture of formal, casual, romantic, and strictly candid shots- I will need a certain amount of cooperation and some time set aside for formal photography. If they want me to be a fly on the wall, I can do that but certain elements may not be possible. I can alter the ratio of posed and grabbed shots to accommodate ther expectations and level of participation. If things go wrong, or the schedule is disrupted, I can switch gears in the middle of the track and carry on! If everyone is on the same page the potential for problems is minimized.

My most accepted approach is to give me some isolated time and space for the formal and romantic shots and the rest of the day, I will remain on the outskirts of the celebration looking in and capturing whatever goes down. People like fair tradeoffs!

PR wise- folks do no want to spend ther hard-earned money with folks they do not like. I have seen folks recommend a lesser-skilled wedding shooter over a top guy or gal because of personality clashes. Sometimes NICE guys and gals finish first- not last! If you are a skilled shooter with an amicable manner- you will do well. Your personality will be reflected in your results, especially in the expressions, and your bottom line too!
"Bridezilla and Momzilla" to me are bad ... (show quote)


I'm 61 years old and a retired custom home builder. Its like taking wedding pictures it is one of the milestones in people's lives. At both they are spending as much money as they believe they can afford and both a wedding and a custom home are a collaboration between at least 2 people. I used to say I was married to my customers for at least a year. The time of construction and a few things that crop up after move in. At least a wedding photographer is not married so long. My point is that you as the photographer and me as the builder are the experts in our field. It is our job to take the customers ideas and either bring them to reality or explain to them why it is not such a good idea and present alternatives. Reading some of these stories I believe some business people forget that. It's your job to bring it off in a successful way. Education of the customer is paramount. When I first met a new customer I told them 3 things. You will get upset with me through the process. Things will go wrong. I will make them right. They all laughed at the first one because they were all giddy looking at new blue prints and I was a hero bringing them to reality. Later in the process when things didn't go exactly as planned due to weather, construction changes,or just flat screw ups, I could break the tension reminding them of that first meeting. It worked miracles. What you understand that some business people don't is how to talk to the customer. Even when it may not be pleasant. You and I understand how to educate the customer and help them achieve their goal. Yes we all have a couple that we cannot work with. I have refused to build a home for 2 couples in my career. I did it tactfully and politicly. I just explained to them that I didn't feel I could meet their expectations and recommended my worst competitor. Let him live thru the lawsuit's. Lol. I was only sued once in my entire career. By a couple that ended up in financial difficulties. I spent 30,000 to win a 20,000 dollar suit. It's handling and education of the customer that makes you a great business person. Yes you need the skills of the job but without the aforementioned abilities you are average or less. My companies motto was From Dreams to Reality. Lawrence Custom Homes.

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Aug 21, 2021 11:48:57   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
bdk wrote:
This past week I shot another wedding. it was a beach wedding, The sun was low making harsh shadows, There was 2 garbage cans chained to a flag pole which was directly behind the path set up for the bride to walk. There were signs on the dunes, on the wood boardwalk. There was large buildings behind that.
The sky was gray not blue, ( thank god for sky replacement )
the brides maid decided she should stick her tongue out non stop thinking it was funny.

The grooms mother was late the wedding had started. I didnt get a pic of her coming down the isle, she snuck down the side ( kind of hard to hide on the beach. )
When I did photos after the ceremony, the Grooms mother got up and left. I had one pic of her and it wasnt good.

I sent a few pix to the brides mother The bride was very heavy, the mother was heavy, She was not happy with those pix saying she looked fat. ( that was after I had did my best to make her look thinner while shooting and while editing)
Editing is a bitch , removing all the signs and garbage cans, the wind was blowing so lots of hair editing.

So you know how my week is going . Im sure you have some great photo stories, lets hear them,
This past week I shot another wedding. it was a ... (show quote)


Did two weddings in 30 years. Both resulted in divorce. Will never be a third!!

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Aug 21, 2021 12:32:49   #
gwilliams6
 
Dan' de Bourgogne wrote:
SU-PERB!
super fun the "blue sweet shoes"...they are not "omnipresent" but just enough visible!I like this picture.


thanks,

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Aug 21, 2021 12:40:52   #
gwilliams6
 
I know many fellow pros who have covered war conflicts like I have ,and bravely shot every kind of dangerous and stressful assignment who refuse to EVER shoot a wedding ,LOL.

Just the thought of doing a wedding terrifies and stresses them too much. Really

Cheers

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Aug 21, 2021 14:01:53   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Paul Diamond wrote:
I raise my hand to confess - while still in college at RIT, I had decided that I did not want to earn a living as a career shooting the "3 B's" (babies, brides and bar mitzvahs). Since I married before my senior year of college, I needed to develop a mindset to both explore my 'photographic vision as well as think realistically about how I might be able to earn a living from my chosen career direction.

Your experience as documented is part of the reason why I chose to believe in myself and 'gamble big' on the direction of my career. (No more about me.)

Post shoot, a beach wedding at the time of day (not of your choice) begins to force you to think about how to "save" the wedding (pictures). Maybe it is taking more pictures at the post-wedding party when you can capture the bride/groom and relatives indoors in a more successfully conducive setting for pictures that are both well done and 'easier to shoot than outdoor beach shots. This is what I would be thinking and planning to do.
I raise my hand to confess - while still in colleg... (show quote)



Well, the 3-Bs ain't all that bad.. After all, regardless of all the various trends, fluctuations, and circumstances in the commercial and industrial markets, folks still get married, have babies and celebrate Bar Mitzvahs, Baptisms, First Communions, Confirmations, Graduations, Anniversaries, even funerals, and a raft of other celebrations have to do with religious, social and traditional lifestyles. Folks want to memorialize this event in pictures and not everyone will entrust Uncle Oscar and Aunt Hortense with their cellphone cameras to record these milestones. Many still hire professionals and pay them well- I can attest to that.

Nowadays, most of my work is in the commercial and industrial fields and quite a bit in the foodservice industry. Yet. I still offer social photography and family portraiture. Diversification, variety, and flexibility are good concepts for long-term survival in a business that is easily affected by trends and fluctuations in the economy, tastes and buying habits.

Even photojournalism in the mainstream media has changed. Print journalism is slowly being replaced by online and television news. How many magazines and newspapers are still maintaining full-time photography staff and facilities? Many are outsourcing their work to freelancers and gathering images from anywhere they can.

When I was stationed in Vietnam, there were photojournalists there- the jargon at the time was "they were looking for bang-bang", that is they would risk their lives working in an active war zone, on speculation, to try to earn a living or get published. The only guy I ran into that was on a paid assignment for Life Magazine was David Douglass Duncan. He later published several books on the Vietnam Conflict and finally came out on the side of the anti-war movement.

I spent 16 months shooting reconnaissance in a very treacherous and active war zone- I would rather take on a nervous bride, an uncooperative Bar Mitzvah kid, are a room full of drunken and rowdy guests any day. At least, I don't have unfriendly folks and bad guys shooting (ammunition) at me! Bad stuff gives one a perspective. I enjoy photographing folks havig a good time and celebrating a joyous occasion any day! It pays better too!

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Aug 21, 2021 17:16:04   #
gwilliams6
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Well, the 3-Bs ain't all that bad.. After all, regardless of all the various trends, fluctuations, and circumstances in the commercial and industrial markets, folks still get married, have babies and celebrate Bar Mitzvahs, Baptisms, First Communions, Confirmations, Graduations, Anniversaries, even funerals, and a raft of other celebrations have to do with religious, social and traditional lifestyles. Folks want to memorialize this event in pictures and not everyone will entrust Uncle Oscar and Aunt Hortense with their cellphone cameras to record these milestones. Many still hire professionals and pay them well- I can attest to that.

Nowadays, most of my work is in the commercial and industrial fields and quite a bit in the foodservice industry. Yet. I still offer social photography and family portraiture. Diversification, variety, and flexibility are good concepts for long-term survival in a business that is easily affected by trends and fluctuations in the economy, tastes and buying habits.

Even photojournalism in the mainstream media has changed. Print journalism is slowly being replaced by online and television news. How many magazines and newspapers are still maintaining full-time photography staff and facilities? Many are outsourcing their work to freelancers and gathering images from anywhere they can.

When I was stationed in Vietnam, there were photojournalists there- the jargon at the time was "they were looking for bang-bang", that is they would risk their lives working in an active war zone, on speculation, to try to earn a living or get published. The only guy I ran into that was on a paid assignment for Life Magazine was David Douglass Duncan. He later published several books on the Vietnam Conflict and finally came out on the side of the anti-war movement.

I spent 16 months shooting reconnaissance in a very treacherous and active war zone- I would rather take on a nervous bride, an uncooperative Bar Mitzvah kid, are a room full of drunken and rowdy guests any day. At least, I don't have unfriendly folks and bad guys shooting (ammunition) at me! Bad stuff gives one a perspective. I enjoy photographing folks havig a good time and celebrating a joyous occasion any day! It pays better too!
Well, the 3-Bs ain't all that bad.. After all, reg... (show quote)


I hear you, but there really are top veteran pros who would rather face a riot than shoot a wedding. I still am willing to do weddings for the economic benefit to my business. I enjoy some of the themed ones best. See golf wedding shot below. The Couple first met at this gold course, so they got married there and I made some shots on the greens, they loved them.

But I would never do it fulltime. I would get bored, I like shooting all subjects and assignments, always have. lol


(Download)


(Download)

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Aug 21, 2021 17:55:46   #
98corvette Loc: Macon, Georgia
 
bdk wrote:
This past week I shot another wedding. it was a beach wedding, The sun was low making harsh shadows, There was 2 garbage cans chained to a flag pole which was directly behind the path set up for the bride to walk. There were signs on the dunes, on the wood boardwalk. There was large buildings behind that.
The sky was gray not blue, ( thank god for sky replacement )
the brides maid decided she should stick her tongue out non stop thinking it was funny.

The grooms mother was late the wedding had started. I didnt get a pic of her coming down the isle, she snuck down the side ( kind of hard to hide on the beach. )
When I did photos after the ceremony, the Grooms mother got up and left. I had one pic of her and it wasnt good.

I sent a few pix to the brides mother The bride was very heavy, the mother was heavy, She was not happy with those pix saying she looked fat. ( that was after I had did my best to make her look thinner while shooting and while editing)
Editing is a bitch , removing all the signs and garbage cans, the wind was blowing so lots of hair editing.

So you know how my week is going . Im sure you have some great photo stories, lets hear them,
This past week I shot another wedding. it was a ... (show quote)


WE watched a late afternoon wedding from the screened in porch n Sanibel, the sand gnats were eating up on the bride and bride maids as they keep swatting there bare arms and legs. It was funny yo us a cocktail hour.

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Aug 21, 2021 18:36:48   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
I hear you, but there really are top veteran pros who would rather face a riot than shoot a wedding. I still am willing to do weddings for the economic benefit of my business.

But I would never do it full-time. I would get bored, I like shooting all subjects and assignments, always have. lol


In a war zone, you have an obligation and a right to neutralize or at least, ward off your enemies- the Geneva Convention and all that kinda policy babble. In a riot, you have the right to defend yourself and use reasonable force in that effort. At a wedding, however, it is considered bad form to even yell at a client and if you talk a swing at an aggressive guest, well, that may be considered assault and battery. If you really fly off the handle, the police may
add "...with intent to commit homicide"! Seem the law takes a dim of violent behaviour!

Seriously though- one can learn and apply many techniques, workarounds, improvisation, tips and tricks from areas of photography that are not necessarily ther mainstay.

I started in wedding photography, oftentimes looked down upon by those in the upper echelons of commercial photography. My very first fashion shoot was an emergency. The client hired 12 models, rented a large studio space, hired an art director and somehow the hired shooter pulled a no-show. The client called me because I did work in his family. When I showed up, the art direction was experiencing a meltdown and was muttering derogatory comments to the effect of "OH NO A #%^*&^%@ WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHER"!!! Was he ever surprised because I knew how to render exquisite detail and texture on white and lace fabrics, how to direct some of the lesser experienced models, how to pay attention to detail and drape garments properly, and create poses that show the lines of a garment, and getting along nicely with the hair and makeup ladies. Our fussy art director was also impressed with fact that I got this done in fairly short order. At weddings, you learn to work precisely in short time frames and limited windows of opportunity. You can't fuss about all day!

Inversely, at a wedding, my commercial experience certainly comes in handy. I can shoot knockout still lifes of flowers and details dodo some decent church and venue interiors.

Years ago. wedding photography was in the domain of the better portrait studios- photographers had a good grounding in the basics of fine and corrective portraiture. Nowadays, not so much. This does not mean that weddingg portraits need to be old-fashioned, super-traditional or stiff but knowing the basics of posing, lighting and camera position would certainly help in maintaining complete customer satisfaction as to the aesthetics.

If you have experience in photojournalism, sports or any kind of action photography, that is an asset in all kinda wedding, social, and candid photography. Working quickly, anticipating action and understanding all the related techniques.

It's good to be a Rennaissance man or a Rennaissance lady! Even a degree in psychology may help!

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Aug 21, 2021 19:31:17   #
Tstplt Loc: Northwest Arkansas
 
Why I don't shoot weddings.

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Aug 21, 2021 19:31:45   #
gwilliams6
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
In a war zone, you have an obligation and a right to neutralize or at least, ward off your enemies- the Geneva Convention and all that kinda policy babble. In a riot, you have the right to defend yourself and use reasonable force in that effort. At a wedding, however, it is considered bad form to even yell at a client and if you talk a swing at an aggressive guest, well, that may be considered assault and battery. If you really fly off the handle, the police may
add "...with intent to commit homicide"! Seem the law takes a dim of violent behaviour!

Seriously though- one can learn and apply many techniques, workarounds, improvisation, tips and tricks from areas of photography that are not necessarily ther mainstay.

I started in wedding photography, oftentimes looked down upon by those in the upper echelons of commercial photography. My very first fashion shoot was an emergency. The client hired 12 models, rented a large studio space, hired an art director and somehow the hired shooter pulled a no-show. The client called me because I did work in his family. When I showed up, the art direction was experiencing a meltdown and was muttering derogatory comments to the effect of "OH NO A #%^*&^%@ WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHER"!!! Was he ever surprised because I knew how to render exquisite detail and texture on white and lace fabrics, how to direct some of the lesser experienced models, how to pay attention to detail and drape garments properly, and create poses that show the lines of a garment, and getting along nicely with the hair and makeup ladies. Our fussy art director was also impressed with fact that I got this done in fairly short order. At weddings, you learn to work precisely in short time frames and limited windows of opportunity. You can't fuss about all day!

Inversely, at a wedding, my commercial experience certainly comes in handy. I can shoot knockout still lifes of flowers and details dodo some decent church and venue interiors.

Years ago. wedding photography was in the domain of the better portrait studios- photographers had a good grounding in the basics of fine and corrective portraiture. Nowadays, not so much. This does not mean that weddingg portraits need to be old-fashioned, super-traditional or stiff but knowing the basics of posing, lighting and camera position would certainly help in maintaining complete customer satisfaction as to the aesthetics.

If you have experience in photojournalism, sports or any kind of action photography, that is an asset in all kinda wedding, social, and candid photography. Working quickly, anticipating action and understanding all the related techniques.

It's good to be a Rennaissance man or a Rennaissance lady! Even a degree in psychology may help!
In a war zone, you have an obligation and a right ... (show quote)


Love your stories and your experience. Would love to trade stories sometime in person.

I have been doing it 47+ years as a pro. One of my mentors was photojournalist David Kennerly who won a Pulitzer for his war coverage in Vietnam, and later was my boss as I was a white house photo intern picked by him briefly back in 1976, before they cut the white house staff budget during the campaign of fiscal one-upmanship between GOP Pres. Ford and Dem. Presidential Candidate Jimmy Carter and my internship was cut short after a few weeks working in the white house. Cheers

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Aug 21, 2021 20:41:23   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
gsmith051 wrote:
Shooting weddings is tough and takes a lot of skill. I hired two sets of professional photographers for a beach wedding and another for the mountains. In both cases the teams worked the site several days before the wedding and worked with the wedding party on a regular basis. A lot of work to get outstanding results. It sounds from what you wrote you only showed up on wedding day without any pre-investigation. Good luck to you.


Yes you are pretty close it was 6 hours away. I arrived the day before and picked the perfect location, The wedding planner had her own ideas and when I got there the morning of the wedding the chairs and flowers etc etc were all in place . I had no say.

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Aug 21, 2021 20:45:38   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I co-mange the "Wedding Photograhy" section here on UHH! Oh, there's such a section! There is very little traffic there, especially lately, what with the pandemic. Even under normal circumstances, it ain't all that popular around here. If, however, I changed the title to "I Hate Weddings" it might be inundated with new posts every day.

"Weddig Photography for Fun and Profit"??? Yes, it can be fun, challenging, creative and extremely profitable and rewarding IF YOU KNOW WAHT YOU ARE DOING! That comes with education, experience, research, practice, and honing your people skills, which is a talent in itself. Good business management helps as well!

Although, nowadays. 75% of my professional work is in commercial photography and portraiture, we still offer wedding and event photography. At 77-years old, I still shoot- I do work with at least two assistants. Wedding photography and portraiture were my entry-level to the business. I was fortunate enough to start in New York City, as a teenager, where I served as an assistant to an experienced photographer. The city has a very diverse and interesting mixture of many cultures, ethnicities, religious communities and socioeconomic groups. There is enough population where there can be weddings just about every day- not only on the weekends and in the month of June. For me, it was total emersion in weddings both as an assistant and eventually as a shooter.

I went to school for this job too! Well, there's no college or university course in weddingg photography but besides the "school of hard knocks" fortunately, there were many serious courses offered at the Winnona School- the educational arm of the Professional Photograhers of America, where one can study portraiture, photojournalism, and yes, wedding photogrhay. You get with all the programmes and combine the skills you learn

Times change as to fashions, tastes, trends, and what folks expect. Certain traditions still apply but a savvy wedding photograher has to keep abreast of the trends, market and shoot accordingly and not get stuck in the olden days.

Wedding photography is not for every photograher. I know many seasoned professionals in other fields and specializations that would litterly have a nervous breakdown at a wedding assignment. It is certainly not for the lazy shooter or those faint of heart or impatient.

One of my commercial cohorts used to continuously rib me about my insistence on remaining in the wedding business- he kinda looks down upon the job! So, I offered to pay him to assist me on a big ethnic wedding that went from 11 A.M. to 3 A.M. the following morning. At the end of the job, I thought I might need to call an ambulance to bring him home. Well- I did drive him home and as he left the car, he muttered "you do this all the time"?! Took him two days to fully recover! I made it my business to show him the cheque I received for the final payment- including a hefty additional order- he doesn't make fun of me anymore!
I co-mange the "Wedding Photograhy" sect... (show quote)


I once shot a wedding that was about 2 hours from home. We were 3 photographers, we left home at 8am to be able to shoot her getting dressed etc We got home around 2am. AND we left before the reception was over. The bride and groom left but the people there kept taking up collections and having the band keep playing.

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Aug 21, 2021 20:52:32   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
willaim wrote:
I did one wedding with a wedding photographer about 50 plus years ago.. We both shot a hell of a lot of pictures The mother of the bride was a pain telling us what to shoot and how to shoot. That was it. NEVER AGAIN.


I know your pain. I have a sheet of names I have the bride make me a list of who she wants pics taken with.
I go down the list and usually have the brides mother find the people. I also have the mother put names on the list .
I have shot weddings where the bride and groom had no idea who the people being photographed were.
It is always friends of the parents who are getting revenge for being invited to those peoples kids weddings.

Plus It makes me look good and keeps the mother happy.

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Aug 21, 2021 20:53:07   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
bittermelon wrote:
You were paid, right?


never enough

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Aug 21, 2021 20:55:05   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
I stop those mother-zillas in their tracks. I let everyone know that I will do whatever shots we agree to and those spontaneous ones added on, but as the principle photographer I must be in charge to do the best job for the couple, and I need this to be acknowledged and followed by all relatives and guests. I do all this in a friendly way, of course.

I have the bride or groom announce to everyone before we start that they are paying me to get the best shots and that all over-eager family and friend photogs should give me wide berth to get my shots. And once I have the key moments, I will step aside and let the masses get their shots too, but mine are first. Always someone will step out into the aisle right in front of you and get between you and the couple as they walk back down the aisle after their ceremony. I just step in front of them and do my job. lol

I don't make enemies of anyone, but I am assertive as I have to be do the best for the couple. Any bruised egos can be smoothed over later when we have time to laugh about it all . I get many future clients from wedding guests and family who watched me work and then saw the results.

Cheers.
I stop those mother-zillas in their tracks. I let ... (show quote)


I mentioned this above, I have a list of who is suppose to be photographed with the bride and groom AND I also have the mother put names on the list. Then I have the mother help m e find those people. works great...

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