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Does this make me a bad photographer?
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Aug 15, 2021 10:31:22   #
srt101fan
 
GerryER wrote:
I believe you have the "narrow view" of photography, thinking that photography is only for artistic expression and excluding exactness in the rendition of scenes. Post-processing and removing what you consider distracting or objectionable elements from a scene is no different than leaving it out of a painting, but then it has become art, how you think the scene should look and not what is actually there. Perhaps the photographs of the battle fields should be post processed to leave out the gruesome corpses and fragmented buildings, because they seem distracting in the overall view! It all depends, are you creating art or capturing a scene, a moment in time?
I believe you have the "narrow view" of ... (show quote)


Where did you ever get the idea that I think "photography is only for artistic expression"???

Clearly there is no sense in continuing this discussion with you. I wish you well and hope that someday you can understand and enjoy the full range of photographic creative activities.

And my apologies to Photolady2014 for contributing to the derailment of this thread....

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Aug 15, 2021 11:33:57   #
mundy-F2 Loc: Chicago suburban area
 
Wallen wrote:
That is my Covid tribute to all who are suffering and all who are helping to fight the pandemic.

The empty shell of a building representing hospitals, work, home & progress in dire condition. The barbwire for the physical and mental barriers everyone is suffering. The cloudless sky encompassing all mankind and the ambivalent sun neither rising nor setting representing our present state where we still do not know if we are winning the battle or not. Through all that is the bird of hope. Wings outstretched it flies parallel to the dark and light, looking ahead for a better tomorrow.
That is my Covid tribute to all who are suffering ... (show quote)


Interesting viewpoint!
Mundy

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Aug 15, 2021 11:50:33   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
Photolady2014 wrote:
These photos are beautiful? Just got back from camping and saw my first Pine Martin at over 12,000 feet after driving our RZR (a high clearance ATV) over a steep and rocky trail. It ran across the trail in front of us. I jumped out and headed the direction it went in tall grass. There was a huge Boulder field, the type that Pikas hang out. Do I thought maybe! Yea, he did show up, but he was so fast! He could cover a football field in 30 seconds zooming over the rocks. So you bet, I tried to get a photo, any photo!!
These photos are beautiful? Just got back from ca... (show quote)


I guess that's you answer to your conundrum of taking only perfect photos.
If you are willing to just take the shot then you have accepted that doing so does not make you a bad photographer.

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Aug 16, 2021 08:17:19   #
Abo
 
Wallen wrote:
Take as much as you need.

For him to make you believe that you need to look for all those perfection before taking a photo is wrong.
Stars do align but if you wait for it, you will miss a lot of opportunities. That will only always happen in a studio environment.
With correct basics & approach, Professional photographers take as much pictures as they can then cull them up for the great one.
The one that fits all the corners and if not, they edit those images to fit their "box".

More so with wildlife which is unpredictable. Sometimes we can have an idea of what we want to take a picture of and we make ways for that image to happen. But still, we just take what is given to us and choose the best we got. What they are good at is planning and doing their shots with room for improvements. Oftentimes they also have a lot of days to keep trying to achieve their shot.

This is an example of planning; There is an unfinished building and a barbwire fence i always pass by and in my mind I see a this composition of dove freely flying superimposed and in contrast with the bleak backdrop. To get the shot, i would stay on this spot when the lighting is correct to my idea and actually wait for a dove to do what i wanted to capture. It took me 6 different days of waiting 5 to 10 minutes each time at that spot to get this photo which i call
"Hope".

Did I capture what I want? Not really. I wanted the bird to be bigger. But that is what was offered to me and I'm happy with that. Wildlife is unpredictable and it would probably take me months of trying before i get what i want. It's all about planning, taking lots of photos and luck.

Here is an example of a shot with room for improvement.
This is my improved composition;


And this is how i shot it, deliberately giving enough space around my subject in relation to the clutter around it.


The full process can be read here:
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-580096-1.html


As shown, things do not need to be perfect. It only needs to be done with purpose, appropriate technique and approach. Shoot the best possible as per situation and do some post if needed.
.
Take as much as you need. br br For him to make ... (show quote)


Love your mono just as it is.

However reading that you wanted a bigger bird :-) :



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Aug 16, 2021 09:15:33   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
GerryER wrote:
I'll quote another poster who made this statement that I agree with, "Post processing is to photography as painting-by-numbers is to art."

That's pretty funny, no matter who says it.

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Aug 16, 2021 09:43:05   #
jburlinson Loc: Austin, TX
 
BigDaddy wrote:
That's pretty funny, no matter who says it.


“Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships.” – Ansel Adams

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Aug 16, 2021 10:27:23   #
GerryER Loc: Virginia USA
 
jburlinson wrote:
“Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships.” – Ansel Adams


Ansel Adams needed to find a bigger God; the one he worshipped was evidently spelled with a little "g."

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Aug 16, 2021 12:15:53   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
If Ansel Adams was the photographer worthy of that name, he'd do a better job Straight Out Of Camera like a Real Photographer.

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Aug 16, 2021 12:44:26   #
GerryER Loc: Virginia USA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
If Ansel Adams was the photographer worthy of that name, he'd do a better job Straight Out Of Camera like a Real Photographer.


He did the best he could with the equipment he had!

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Aug 16, 2021 14:03:47   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
Abo wrote:
Love your mono just as it is.

However reading that you wanted a bigger bird :-) :



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Aug 16, 2021 18:17:23   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Abo wrote:
Love your mono just as it is.

However reading that you wanted a bigger bird :-) :


Awesome ☀️☀️☀️

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Aug 17, 2021 08:34:28   #
Abo
 
joecichjr wrote:
Awesome ☀️☀️☀️


Shucks

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Aug 19, 2021 16:49:49   #
Redyogi Loc: Chatsworth, GA
 
Photolady2014 wrote:
Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day class with a very well known photographer who has won many, many awards, photos in the Smithsonian and is a judge for contests like Natures Best Photography. I learned sooo much about what makes a great photo.

Half way through the 5 days I was feeling quite overwhelmed and almost in tears because to get the photo that he would consider a photo seems near impossible. I totally understand photos before and just after sunrise and sunset are the best, but is it awful that I still want to take photos mid day? On several of my trips I have still gotten photos I really like, even though they do not have the special light and there are shadows etc. I scoured my photos and submitted them for the class and so far I do not have one photo that is not a "non-photo" due to shadow or lack of a hook or a background that is not totally creamy, or a host of other bad things.

I will post some of his comments to what I thought was going to be an ok photo.

The last one was reviewed verbally, the shadows! Bridge of the nose by eye, and the light patch of fur below the right eye as you look at the photo and curve shadow back to the nose is a big distraction. He could tell I was off by 2 degrees and that caused the bad shadow. The lighter fur to the left of the nose stops the eye from traveling from the lower left to the eye. You are supposed to have something soft in the lower left that makes your eye travel from lower left to the "hook" eye. In this case it does not work due to light fur interrupts the flow to the eye and then the shadows on the right. Then, the white fur on the lips could have been lightened to make it better if the other issues had not condemned it to be a "non-photo". Oh and the green line going through the background is bad.

Who knew you were not supposed to have sky in a bird photo, or that with something like a coyote all 4 legs must have separation and no crossover and that the farthest away front leg should be going forward. That the background must be very creamy with no light and dark areas. Shadows are the worst! Like crap, I was off by 2 or 4 degrees with the shadow. Must have a hook, no lines and of course good light, no messy sticks. Example an owl in a tree is bad if the leaves are all around it.

Anyway, I feel like a bad person/photographer for still liking some of my photos that are not perfect and still wanting to just have fun taking a photo and if I see a mom and baby moose at noon in a messy field of grass with a shadow, I'm still going to take the photo!

Again, I learned a LOT and the pro is a very nice guy and very talented. I will try and do what he says, but may still take what I know will be a "non-photo" am I bad?

Comments welcome, I have had lots of criticism lately, I can handle it! Well I might cry....
Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day... (show quote)


Your images are wonderful. Don’t let some “teacher” who thinks he walks on water criticize your work saying it’s 2% off. Go buy him a slide ruler and a compass, and keep up the beautiful work. Shadow my rear end!! 👍

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Jan 3, 2022 10:23:26   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
"Does this make me a bad photographer?"
The late Dean Collins had a very poignant take on what constitutes photographic excellence.
"Beauty is in the eyes of the checkbook holder"

UHH is currently overrun with enthusiast looking either for validation or to impress their peers...
Have you considered get off UHH Photolady2014 and actually endeavoring to build a client base with your work?
Possibly then will you may begin to appreciate what it takes to become a commercial photographer.
You'll likely need Published "named" Credit(s) in order to attract clients
Photolady2014 please be aware that you actually can to submit your photos to National Geographic for publication:

Please submit your photos to National Geographic Your Shot community on Instagram @natgeoyourshot or instagram.com/natgeoyourshot.
btw: To submit your images for consideration you will have to use the hashtag #YourShotPhotographer .

Please realize that competition is rather fierce in an ever shrinking market...
btw, as of 2021 the most profitable photographic genres are...

Commercial Photography. Commercial photographers make income in two places: the photo assignment itself and the licensing of the images afterwards.
Fashion Photography (*my forte)
Wedding Photography.
Portrait Photography (*my highest revenue stream)
Family Photography (*again a constant revenue steam)

Hope this helps Photolady2014.
Wishing you much success in obtaining a National Geographic Cover in 2022!
Cheers! Thomas

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Jan 3, 2022 14:01:59   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
This is a thread that is 5-months old but is still worth a comment.

Common y'all stop psychoanalyzing the teacher and calling him an egotist- you probably don't even know who he is or what he does. The teacher is paid to present a course and tell you what HE or SHE knows and HOW they work and HOW THEY pref to compose, light and process their images. If the STUDENT admires the teacher's work, takes in the class, learns a few important elements, the teacher has done their job.

The "job" if you will, of the student, is to take all the methodologies and techniques he or she has gathered and integrate them into their working methods, perhaps keep some of the principles in the back of their minds, and apply them when THEY feel it is necessary. Over the years, I have attended many masterclasses and seminars where someof the teachers agreed on certain approaches and other were diametrically opposite on certain points. You do not drop every you are doing and become a clone of the teacher. To benefit, all you need to do is consider the lessons and the critiques and interact the improvements gradually as you feel they are necessary and truly beneficial.

I have presented many classes and seminars on a professional level. I have to put together a program and design a curriculum as to how I approach and actually do things- MY WAY! This is because most students or attendees want some definitive solutions and answers to questions. I can't accept their time and money and just tell them to go home and experiment. I am, however, very emphatic in explaining that I am furnishing them with some basic guidelines and tools that will work and none of the "rules" as to style and composition are carved in stone. I encourage them to use them as starting points or back up methds in a difficult situation but to further experiment, change, and revise things as they progress.

If the OP is still reading into this thread, here's my advice. Do not discard what you have learned from your class and use what you have gleaned when you feel it is applicable and appropriate. Do not discard what you did before the class and what comes to you naturally. If you are specializing in wildlife photograhy, you oftentimes need to react and shoot quickly and spontaneously so don't slow down the process by hesitating and trying to measure off 1/3 segments of your frame. If you have time, perhaps with a more static subject, you may wish to apply a new method or two. If you like the results, with practice it will become more reflexive.

When demonstrating any technique or method of lighting, a teacher needs some criteria or recognizable points of observation. So, if a certain direction or shape of a shadow in the facial structure of an animal or person- or certain highlights in the eyes, etc, is pointed out, these are just indicators or "landmarks" of the ideal kind of lighting the teacher is trying to describe. Remember, you are not performing surgery where if you make the incision in the wrong place yo will kill the patient! If you come upon a great shot of a wild animal in direct sunlight, you can't wait around for the late afternoon setting sun. You can't invite a mother mountain lion and her cubs back for a reshoot- you grab the shot regardless of the time of day and get the heck out of there!

The images you posted are beautiful. The show has great texture and detail and most importantly, your love of animals! That is what most viewers of wildlife and even editors like to see.

By the way, it is not uncommon for students and attendees, even seasoned pros, to attend a class and become overwhelmed. Sometimes we all get information overload and need time to digest and apply what we are learning. It is like gettg vaccinations- it might sting at first, cause an unpleasant reaction, but in the long run, it is beneficial.

Many moons ago, I took my very first advanced classes in professional portraiture at the Winnona School of Professional Photograhy. My first instructor used a dozen lights- I counted them 12!!!!!- Yes, he was a grandmaster and his work was outstanding. The second week, my instruction of equal talent and experience used no more than 2 umbrella-equipped lights. On the third week cam, the "New Trends" course and the instructor said the two previous guys were crazy and he did every with natural light. When I came back to work, my first boss and mentor was eager to find out what I had learned. My first reaction was that "I should have stayed at home and watched TV"! It took a few days but once I started shooting again all it began to make more sense and everything I learned came in handy.

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