Hip Coyote

Sorry for typos. Wow. Kudos are do? More like due. Need to proof before sending!

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

Take as much as you need.

For him to make you believe that you need to look for all those perfection before taking a photo is wrong.
Stars do align but if you wait for it, you will miss a lot of opportunities. That will only always happen in a studio environment.
With correct basics & approach, Professional photographers take as much pictures as they can then cull them up for the great one.
The one that fits all the corners and if not, they edit those images to fit their "box".

More so with wildlife which is unpredictable. Sometimes we can have an idea of what we want to take a picture of and we make ways for that image to happen. But still, we just take what is given to us and choose the best we got. What they are good at is planning and doing their shots with room for improvements. Oftentimes they also have a lot of days to keep trying to achieve their shot.

This is an example of planning; There is an unfinished building and a barbwire fence i always pass by and in my mind I see a this composition of dove freely flying superimposed and in contrast with the bleak backdrop. To get the shot, i would stay on this spot when the lighting is correct to my idea and actually wait for a dove to do what i wanted to capture. It took me 6 different days of waiting 5 to 10 minutes each time at that spot to get this photo which i call
"Hope".

Did I capture what I want? Not really. I wanted the bird to be bigger. But that is what was offered to me and I'm happy with that. Wildlife is unpredictable and it would probably take me months of trying before i get what i want. It's all about planning, taking lots of photos and luck.

Here is an example of a shot with room for improvement.
This is my improved composition;


And this is how i shot it, deliberately giving enough space around my subject in relation to the clutter around it.


The full process can be read here:
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-580096-1.html


As shown, things do not need to be perfect. It only needs to be done with purpose, appropriate technique and approach. Shoot the best possible as per situation and do some post if needed.
.

GerryER Loc: Virginia USA

Not what some of us consider "photography is all about," photographic art, maybe, which many seem to indulge in, but really just "photographic-post-processing." The idea is to get the best shot first, and hopefully no PP.

jburlinson Loc: Austin, TX

Why no PP?

Is this a moral judgment? Aesthetic?

Is this a test of one's abilities of some sort? Are you saying that if you can't get a perfect exposure, then forget it? If so, you seem to be siding with the vilified teacher of this long, long thread.

GerryER Loc: Virginia USA

I knew this would raise a few hackles. If you have the mind-set that you can fix everything in post, you will never hone your skills as a photographer. If you have to fix everything in post, then...if the shoe fits, wear it!

If you take a picture that isn't "perfect," whatever that is in your mind, then you have a picture "that isn't perfect." Why do you think you have to fix everything in post to make it "perfect," to impress others?

I think the "vilified" teacher is just nit-picky and that the OP's photos were fine as presented, and trying to take someone elses photos to what he thinks is perfection, is just one man's opinion, period. Her feelings were obviously hurt because of his critique, because she presented photos that were very good and to her liking and wasn't expecting his assessment; the title of this thread indicates that to me.

mundy-F2 Loc: Chicago suburban area

Perhaps the bird represents freedom, and the barbed wire represents a lack of freedom.
Mundy

srt101fan

A very narrowly limited view of "photography". You seem to believe that people use post-processing only to "fix" an "imperfect" picture.

And how is post-processing a digital image to remove a visually distracting element more objectionable than not including it when painting the same scene?

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

These photos are beautiful? Just got back from camping and saw my first Pine Martin at over 12,000 feet after driving our RZR (a high clearance ATV) over a steep and rocky trail. It ran across the trail in front of us. I jumped out and headed the direction it went in tall grass. There was a huge Boulder field, the type that Pikas hang out. Do I thought maybe! Yea, he did show up, but he was so fast! He could cover a football field in 30 seconds zooming over the rocks. So you bet, I tried to get a photo, any photo!!

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

Personally, I have no issue with removing a distracting object because I do not intend to enter a contest. If you are all about winning awards, as we learned, they will ask for the original RAW file and if you have removed a stick, it will render the photo disqualified.

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

The title Does this make me a bad photographer was referring to the fact that I still want to take a photo even though I now know what makes a “perfect, award winning” photo and I know I still want to snap a photo of mom and baby moose at mid day with a distracting, non creamy background, or a bird in the sky! Feelings were not hurt. I was simply amazed at what professional/judges of photography require in a photo.

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

You are right, there are times when the shadow makes the photo! He also agrees there is a time and place for shadows, such as side lighting.

GerryER Loc: Virginia USA

I believe you have the "narrow view" of photography, thinking that photography is only for artistic expression and excluding exactness in the rendition of scenes. Post-processing and removing what you consider distracting or objectionable elements from a scene is no different than leaving it out of a painting, but then it has become art, how you think the scene should look and not what is actually there. Perhaps the photographs of the battle fields should be post processed to leave out the gruesome corpses and fragmented buildings, because they seem distracting in the overall view! It all depends, are you creating art or capturing a scene, a moment in time?

BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA

BigDaddy wrote:
Not close to sacrilegious. It's what photography is all about.
Do what you can in pre-snap, then fix what you can in post-snap.


I think it's sacrilegious to toss a picture that can be made great in post because PP is "sacrilegious". PP is, [imo] as much a part of photography as clicking the button on your camera. If you take SOOC to it's extreme, the minute you move your camera mode off automatic, you are messing with "SOOC". Whether I blur the background with in-camera settings, or in PP setting makes no difference.
Some might find more enjoyment doing it with camera settings, some enjoy it more in post. To have a worthwhile opinion, you MUST be able to do both, then you can decide what is best for you, regardless of what "some" think.

If I use bracketing or multiple pics to get good exposure and combine in post is just as much a part of photography as setting my camera to HDR and letting the camera take multiple pics and combine them so I get a good SOOC picture. IMO, doing it in post not only requires more skill, but is way more fun.

GerryER Loc: Virginia USA

I'll quote another poster who made this statement that I agree with, "Post processing is to photography as painting-by-numbers is to art."

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

That is my Covid tribute to all who are suffering and all who are helping to fight the pandemic.

The empty shell of a building representing hospitals, work, home & progress in dire condition. The barbwire for the physical and mental barriers everyone is suffering. The cloudless sky encompassing all mankind and the ambivalent sun neither rising nor setting representing our present state where we still do not know if we are winning the battle or not. Through all that is the bird of hope. Wings outstretched it flies parallel to the dark and light, looking ahead for a better tomorrow.