Does this make me a bad photographer? (Page 4): Funny how many commentators take the photographer to task and then show the same arrogance criticizing basics such as the rule of...

IDguy Loc: Idaho

Funny how many commentators take the photographer to task and then show the same arrogance criticizing basics such as the rule of thirds. Once you actually learn what it is about you’ll be able to use it where and when it improves your image. Silly to criticize such a simple and helpful point that helps many beginner photographers.

Brokenland

Welcome to my world. I'm constantly getting negative comments about my images and advice, Though some of the hogs have been very supportive of my work etc. I'll never get any recognition from any "professional photographers simply because I don't Post process my images or it's because I'm such a nice person to deal with. In my world there's only two people I need to worry about not liking my work, My wife and myself all the rest can go to hell.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Photolady2014 wrote:

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day class with a very well known photographer who has won many, many awards, photos in the Smithsonian and is a judge for contests like Natures Best Photography. I learned sooo much about what makes a great photo.

Half way through the 5 days I was feeling quite overwhelmed and almost in tears because to get the photo that he would consider a photo seems near impossible. I totally understand photos before and just after sunrise and sunset are the best, but is it awful that I still want to take photos mid day? On several of my trips I have still gotten photos I really like, even though they do not have the special light and there are shadows etc. I scoured my photos and submitted them for the class and so far I do not have one photo that is not a "non-photo" due to shadow or lack of a hook or a background that is not totally creamy, or a host of other bad things.

I will post some of his comments to what I thought was going to be an ok photo.

The last one was reviewed verbally, the shadows! Bridge of the nose by eye, and the light patch of fur below the right eye as you look at the photo and curve shadow back to the nose is a big distraction. He could tell I was off by 2 degrees and that caused the bad shadow. The lighter fur to the left of the nose stops the eye from traveling from the lower left to the eye. You are supposed to have something soft in the lower left that makes your eye travel from lower left to the "hook" eye. In this case it does not work due to light fur interrupts the flow to the eye and then the shadows on the right. Then, the white fur on the lips could have been lightened to make it better if the other issues had not condemned it to be a "non-photo". Oh and the green line going through the background is bad.

Who knew you were not supposed to have sky in a bird photo, or that with something like a coyote all 4 legs must have separation and no crossover and that the farthest away front leg should be going forward. That the background must be very creamy with no light and dark areas. Shadows are the worst! Like crap, I was off by 2 or 4 degrees with the shadow. Must have a hook, no lines and of course good light, no messy sticks. Example an owl in a tree is bad if the leaves are all around it.

Anyway, I feel like a bad person/photographer for still liking some of my photos that are not perfect and still wanting to just have fun taking a photo and if I see a mom and baby moose at noon in a messy field of grass with a shadow, I'm still going to take the photo!

Again, I learned a LOT and the pro is a very nice guy and very talented. I will try and do what he says, but may still take what I know will be a "non-photo" am I bad?

Comments welcome, I have had lots of criticism lately, I can handle it! Well I might cry....

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day... (show quote)

More importantly (and an excellent way to improve) is what YOU think of your images? Look at them as a critic/gallery owner/client/etc might look at them and see if there is room for improvement. Also look at work that you've done in the past, and compare that to the work you are currently doing. A good goal is to be a better photographer today than you were last year.

stan0301 Loc: Colorado

Isolate and simplify - Ansel told me he threw away 10,000 for every one he published

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

In reading all the comments one thing that has helped is the thought that a photo does not have to be perfect to be a good photo. Yes he is a judge and they look for noise, shadows, leading lines, creamy background etc. but can a photo be too perfect to the point that it is not as pleasing?

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

Gene51 wrote:

More importantly (and an excellent way to improve) is what YOU think of your images? Look at them as a critic/gallery owner/client/etc might look at them and see if there is room for improvement. Also look at work that you've done in the past, and compare that to the work you are currently doing. A good goal is to be a better photographer today than you were last year.

I agree. I am sure I will not have many more "good" photos. I will also know when a photo is not necessarily a technically good photo, but just one I like because of the subject, like moose and baby. Thanks!

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

IDguy wrote:

Funny how many commentators take the photographer to task and then show the same arrogance criticizing basics such as the rule of thirds. Once you actually learn what it is about you’ll be able to use it where and when it improves your image. Silly to criticize such a simple and helpful point that helps many beginner photographers.

Yes, I think there are times the rule of thirds can and should be broken. I felt that way about the fox kit. The fact the eyes are where they are in this photo does not bother me... the bird was not what I thought was the main attraction on the buffalo. I can see adding space to the top, but again I was putting the eye closer to the rule of 3rds.

User ID

IDguy wrote:

Funny how many commentators take the photographer to task and then show the same arrogance criticizing basics such as the rule of thirds. Once you actually learn what it is about you’ll be able to use it where and when it improves your image. Silly to criticize such a simple and helpful point that helps many beginner photographers.

Mea culpa and I stand by my assertions.

I never said the rule of turds and such were invalid. I will say, again, that the mention of such stuff indicates a low, noobie level, approach. Selling that sort of teaching as something higher level, to charge real money for camera club level advice and critique, is a scam and fraud.

Between an advanced student and a high level teacher, childish elementary school “aesthetic crutches” are not part of the thinking or the discussion. One does NOT pay Broadway ticket prices to see some middle school performance staged in the gym (unless, acoarst, it’s to charitably fund something for the school).

Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

Just to follow up as I don't know how many read all the comments. The teacher really is a nice person and a talented photographer. I learned a LOT and I intend to implement as much as I can into future photos. I think to be the calibre of photographer he is takes an ego, just as being a super athlete or head of a mega company.
I may take another class of his as he knows his stuff, albeit he takes it to 100% perfection. I was simply feeling like now that I know what makes the "award winning" photo is it ok to still take the photo if I know it will not have all the elements of an "award winning" photo.
I thank you for all your comments! Just don't get me wrong, I was still happy with what I learned! And I really do appreciate all your kind words.
Beth

I love Pikas!
I love Pikas!...

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Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado

User ID wrote:

Mea culpa and I stand by my assertions. br br I n... (show quote)

I see what you are saying. In the 5 days he did dive into much more involved guidance. The psychology of how to direct the viewer to the competing part of the photo. Even to the point of studying the Mona Lisa painting and how the painter painted the eyes to direct you to the smile and back. How we should try and do this in a photo. How to capture the emotion and recognize when it has been captured in a photo. The book reading list was quite extensive and a lot on studying art and why we should have certain elements in a photo.

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NMGal Loc: NE NM

Beth, as long as you are happy, that is really all that matters. And we are happy with your posts, such as this pika.

UTMike Loc: South Jordan, UT

Keep 'em coming, Beth!

flathead27ford Loc: Colorado, North of Greeley

Cute little Floof!

SWFeral Loc: SWNM

I guess I missed your original post so I'm a little out of the loop, but I'd say this pika portrait is pretty close to award-winning. I can picture it on a magazine cover, if that helps. It is simple and elegant.

ricardo00

Photolady2014 wrote:

Just to follow up as I don't know how many read al... (show quote)

I think if you pay (I assume a fairly hefty fee) to take a class from an award winning and talented photographer, wouldn't you be disappointed to have him just say how great your photos are? Wouldn't you want some criticism so that you could strive for perfection? Maybe he could have added some positive feedback along with the critical comments.
Obviously photographing wildlife is not going to allow one to compose pics the same way one can with landscape (you can't chose the light when the wildlife will show up). So does this mean that one shouldn't take a pic just because the light is not perfect? And as others have said, the most important point is how much you (and the ones you share your photos with) enjoy the photos. But in selecting which photos that you have taken to present, maybe some things you learned will help? Sounds like you enjoyed the experience enough to think about going back for another lesson, so you must have thought there were worthwhile elements to his style. Personally, I have gone with "award winning" photographers on photographic trips (and paid a bunch) but thought their personalities were so bad I would never go back with them.