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Jul 4, 2021 13:05:01   #
lbrande
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
I suspect that his CCW handgun was a Glock for the safety is a little lever in the trigger and there have been many accidental discharges when folks are putting them into the holster. Here's a video of a DEA Agent giving a firearm safety presentation at a school when he shots himself in the leg with a Glock 40. https://youtu.be/vfONckOPyaI


Ouch. I prefer handguns with a hammer and a safety.

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Jul 4, 2021 13:11:40   #
ad9mac
 
Schwabo wrote:
I do carry sometimes, but never with safety off or Hammer cocked.


Sadly, the ever popular Glock has neither. If one is in the chamber it's hot to go.
There are a number of makes that duplicate the Glock style function now.
Carry it in a pocket/purse sans holster and something snags the trigger( keys, eyebrow pencil, finger) and BOOM.

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Jul 4, 2021 13:19:48   #
Bill Emmett Loc: Bow, New Hampshire
 
Here in New Hampshire, there is no concealed carry permit at all. There isn't even a course to carry with a test. When I lived in Louisiana, I had to take a course, which included gun safety, legal responsability and actual shooting test on a range. You got a photo ID for concealed carry that was good for 5 years, or until a major law change. When we lived just outside New Orleans, if my wife and I went to the City we put on our watch, ring, and gun. Today, in New Hampshire, I carry my 380 holstered along the side of my center consol in my car. I always carry fully loaded with one in the chamber. My 380 has a thumb safety, and hammer, but it is dual action. I pull the trigger to cock back the hammer, and fire. This came in handy Nov 28, 1980, when I was being robbed in the parking lot on Rampart St. in New Orleans. The robber got 2 in the gut, I got a slash on my throat, from a Rambo knife. The key to a good concealed carry is gun size, and the holster. I use a pocket holster with a flat side, and pressed leather side that hold my Walther PPK 380 snuggly in place in my pocket, but easy to draw. My wife carries a 38 Lady Smith, in a molded waist band holster. She carried every day when she practiced Law, in Louisiana, even in the office. One gun I will never carry, nor suggest to anyone, is a Glock. The safety is on the trigger, one misstep with this arrangement you can shoot yourself in the foot, or draw and extend with a finger on the trigger, it will fire. Don't think you have the time when confronting a armed crook to rack the slide. Once the armed crook sees your gun, he will fire his, or stab you. The newest threat to the common man is "road rage". Locally I had a guy follow me to my destination, block my car with is truck, emerge, threaten me with all sorts of harm and violence, and attempted to enter my car by trying the door handle. I felt by his stature he could physically carry out all his threats, he was will muscled, much younger by 30 years or more. He stated how much he hated old men driving performance cars. The tune changed when he found he was staring down the barrel of my 380, he was about to break my window with his hand. At this point, he checked all the basic boxes for the use of deadly force. Since at the time I was 72 years old, and still on a cane from recent knee surgery. So, a physical confrontation would most likely been to his favor, and my demise.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:04:22   #
edrobinsonjr Loc: Boise, Idaho
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Accidents happen every day, and you just have to take them in stride. It's good he had that permit. We can't just let any idiots carry guns around. Maybe his wife will get a gun now.


I'm afraid we do let just any idiot carry a gun around...

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Jul 4, 2021 14:05:04   #
scooter1 Loc: Yacolt, Wa.
 
tradio wrote:
I carry my 1911 with one in the pipe but the hammer down. All that's needed is to roll the hammer back which is a natural thing to do as it clears leather.


With a colt 1911 the hammer should always be in the half cocked for safety. With the hammer all the way down a drop that caused the hammer to be struck could cause it to fire. I've got a vintage colt 1911 and a springfield 1911 and both operate the same.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:17:55   #
scooter1 Loc: Yacolt, Wa.
 
robertjerl wrote:
For 10 years I worked weekends and summers for a friend who owned three Gun and Police Gear shops. I even got rated as an assistant instructor and Glock Armorer.
We had an event locally where a late teen type had a gun go off in his backpack in class he had his hand in the back pack and dropped it on the floor as it went off - his court defense was it went off when the pack hit the floor and the other students in the room were divided (as normal) on if it fired before or after it hit the floor.
A couple of the local cops and someone from the DA's office came to the shop to get info and advice before the trial. At the time my friend had one of the same model revolver in stock that was so beat up we were going to strip it for parts to sell to a gunsmith and melt the rest.
So he put blanks in the gun and then we proceeded to drop, throw, kick etc. the gun around, both with the hammer cocked and un-cocked. We kept that up for almost 5 minutes including a circle of 4 guys kicking the cocked gun back and forth across a concrete floor for almost 2 minutes - sort of "revolver soccer". We never got it to go off "by itself".

A week later one of the cops came back in and told us that after he and his partner + the guy from the DA testified to what we did without getting it to go off the kid broke down and confessed: 1. he reached in the back pack and cocked the gun 2. he gripped it with his finger on the trigger intending to pull it out to scare someone "as a joke" 3. as he pulled on it the gun caught on something inside the backpack so he jerked harder - that was when the gun went off because he had his finger on the trigger. And the idiot also said he forgot he had loaded the gun then forgot to unload it when he put it in the backpack for his planned "joke". The judge provided a punch line for his joke - one he was not very happy with.

I know of one type of gun (a semi-auto military rifle) that has a part that when worn badly and slammed hard on something butt or muzzle first will go off. It was the early production runs of that rifle, they corrected the problem. A few models of semi-auto pistols with extremely worn down sears can fire when something hits the cocked hammer very hard. But it is rare and then only in guns that are not inspected or cared for and the sears replaced when that badly worn.
At the shop we once got a high end 22 target pistol from a police confiscation auction* that had deliberately and very carefully had the sear filed down and a lighter than spec recoil spring put in so that when fired it went full auto. Everyone in the shop and about 1/2 dozen local cops came in to play with it in our bullet trap before our gunsmith replaced the two parts. I tried it, with 22 shorts it just sort of vibrated as it fired (it was a "heavy" barrel target model) and kept all the rounds on target at 5 yards. And it emptied the 10 round magazine in just over one second. After fixing it so it was legal again a part timer at the shop bought it and then proceeded to win some competitions at the local gun club.

*The department it was purchased from said the guy they took it from was supposedly a hitman for a local drug gang. But they only got him on felon in possession and possession of an automatic weapon. No known hits/bodies shot with it had ever been found. But the two other charges got him 10-20 years and the state judge ruled they would be served after the Feds were done with him. The Feds tried and convicted him on the same two charges and they also gave him 10-20 Federal time. I doubt he got any time off for good behavior at either prison so he would have done a total of 40 years.
For 10 years I worked weekends and summers for a f... (show quote)


Your statement on the worn arm reminded me of a colt 1911 I had that I gave to my dad. He had only fired it a few times when it started to go fully automatic which scared the hell out of him. I tried it and the same thing. It turned out to be a broken sear spring. It opens your eyes when you pull the trigger once and it continues to fire 3 or 4 rounds.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:21:33   #
pendennis
 
I carry a 1911, full mag, one up the pipe, thumb safety on; the way the pistol was designed to be carried. My carry holster covers the trigger guard

Training wise, I follow this maxim: DON'T PUT YOUR BOOGER HOOK ON THE BANG SWITCH UNTIL YOU'VE IDENTIFIED YOUR INTENDED TARGET AND ARE READY TO SHOOT!

A properly working 1911 will not discharge "accidentally".

As to the OP, the pistol didn't accidentally discharge; it was a negligent discharge.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:23:46   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
Brian J. wrote:
Local paper (Panama City News Herald) reported incident at local restaurant. A concealed carry gun in a fellow's pocket "accidentally" fired & he shot his wife in the calf. She received treatment at a local hospital. The report added that no charges were filed as the man had a concealed carry permit. They did not, however, report what his wife had said.
Brian J.


Everyone should have the right to carry. Most who do carry shouldn't

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Jul 4, 2021 14:24:28   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
I suspect that his CCW handgun was a Glock for the safety is a little lever in the trigger and there have been many accidental discharges when folks are putting them into the holster. Here's a video of a DEA Agent giving a firearm safety presentation at a school when he shots himself in the leg with a Glock 40. https://youtu.be/vfONckOPyaI


SOP for a Glock is trigger finger along the frame above the trigger guard until the decision to shoot NOW, then the finger goes on the trigger.

Actually I remember at least one large law enforcement agency had Glock make a model with a thumb safety for them. And Glock submitted models with safety to various armed forces and a couple of companies will custom fit your Glock with a safety. According to Glock that would make a total of 4 safeties. The trigger safety - a lever on the bottom part of the trigger - don't put your finger on it correctly to fold the lever the trigger won't move. Firing pin safety - trigger not pulled the firing pin can't move because a piece of steel blocks it. Then the "drop safety", a bar that catches on the rear of the firing pin which drops out of the way when the trigger is pulled and pops back up after the gun fires. You have to release and pull the trigger again to fire again. And when your finger is removed from the trigger all three go back to the safe position.
If used properly a Glock is safe.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:25:07   #
pendennis
 
ad9mac wrote:
Sadly, the ever popular Glock has neither. If one is in the chamber it's hot to go.
There are a number of makes that duplicate the Glock style function now.
Carry it in a pocket/purse sans holster and something snags the trigger( keys, eyebrow pencil, finger) and BOOM.


The Glock has been advertised as a "safe action pistol", no safety is built in, or necessary. Every negligent discharge I've read of, has involved someone putting their finger on the trigger. I've carried a Glock 19, but disliked the finger grooves on the grip. I do carry a S&W M&P Shield, but I prefer a 1911 pistol.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:30:26   #
pendennis
 
scooter1 wrote:
With a colt 1911 the hammer should always be in the half cocked for safety. With the hammer all the way down a drop that caused the hammer to be struck could cause it to fire. I've got a vintage colt 1911 and a springfield 1911 and both operate the same.


It's never been recommended to carry any 1911 in the half-cocked position. The safest way is to carry the pistol in the full-cocked manner with the thumb safety in the up position. It can't discharge with the thumb safety on.

The old Army Field manuals recommended the hammer down on an empty chamber, but when you went into a combat situation, the pistol was to be carried with a full mag, one up the pipe, and the thumb safety on.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:37:11   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
scooter1 wrote:
Your statement on the worn arm reminded me of a colt 1911 I had that I gave to my dad. He had only fired it a few times when it started to go fully automatic which scared the hell out of him. I tried it and the same thing. It turned out to be a broken sear spring. It opens your eyes when you pull the trigger once and it continues to fire 3 or 4 rounds.


At the shop we had a .32 auto dropped off for evaluation and repair. Only thing the guy said to the clerk who took it in (while the rest of us were at lunch) was "When I shoot it it behaves funny." ???????????? What? didn't fire, jammed, failed to eject or started telling jokes?

I got to be the one to test fire it in our bullet trap. So I get out some .32 ACP, load the magazine, go into the back room to the bullet trap (which also had barrier walls around it), insert the magazine and chamber a round, stick the muzzle in the bullet trap and Brrrrrppppp - full auto. Yes it was a surprise. I guess that qualified as it "behaves funny".
Our gunsmith fixed it and found that "someone" had been filing on the sear and cut coils out of the spring trying to give it a "hair trigger".
When the gun was picked up the guy admitted he had done it himself with a book on gunsmithing he bought. His admission might have had something to do with the fact that two of the part timers at the shop who were standing there when he was questioned were LEOs with their badges hanging on their belts. He was told to get rid of the home gunsmithing book and use our gunsmith. He did.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:43:33   #
scooter1 Loc: Yacolt, Wa.
 
robertjerl wrote:
At the shop we had a .32 auto dropped off for evaluation and repair. Only thing the guy said to the clerk who took it in (while the rest of us were at lunch) was "When I shoot it it behaves funny." ???????????? What? didn't fire, jammed, failed to eject or started telling jokes?

I got to be the one to test fire it in our bullet trap. So I get out some .32 ACP, load the magazine, go into the back room to the bullet trap (which also had barrier walls around it), insert the magazine and chamber a round, stick the muzzle in the bullet trap and Brrrrrppppp - full auto. Yes it was a surprise. I guess that qualified as it "behaves funny".
Our gunsmith fixed it and found that "someone" had been filing on the sear and cut coils out of the spring trying to give it a "hair trigger".
When the gun was picked up the guy admitted he had done it himself with a book on gunsmithing he bought. His admission might have had something to do with the fact that two of the part timers at the shop who were standing there when he was questioned were LEOs with their badges hanging on their belts. He was told to get rid of the home gunsmithing book and use our gunsmith. He did.
At the shop we had a .32 auto dropped off for eval... (show quote)


A self taught professional gunsmith. Dangerous.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:48:48   #
TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA
 
robertjerl wrote:
...
I know of one type of gun (a semi-auto military rifle) that has a part that when worn badly and slammed hard on something butt or muzzle first will go off.

It was possible to turn the M-14 into full-auto by "wearing that part down" with a file. That was still possible in 1968, toward the end of service for that rifle.

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Jul 4, 2021 14:50:58   #
shangyrhee Loc: Nashville TN to Sacramento CA
 
I am happy to carry concealed camera & shoot Lol. Shang

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