IHH61 Loc: Homestead Fl

I was sure that this incorrect statement would show up in this thread. The need for model or property releases has nothing to do with whether the photographer is being paid or sells the images. It has to do with the use of an image. Releases are required for commercial use such as advertising but not for editorial or most other uses to include sales of prints.
One good example is the wedding photographer who does not need any releases.

Hugh

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

I think the key words many are forgetting are the OP is taking photographs of one parent's child at the request of that specific parent. That should trump all else. Surely in a public area someone can take photos of their own or someone's child with permission of the specific parent.

I used to photograph my granddaughter in soccer games at her Catholic school in Santa Barbara, CA. I carried my Nikon openly and took pictures. Not one parent challenged me but several asked if I could send them photos of their children as well. I said I would be happy to do so, got their email addresses and supplied with them with photos.

I agree that being polite goes a long way but actually having a right to do what we want to do goes farther, much farther. As the photographer I would feel quite confident to have the complaining person call the local police to have them come to the area and listen to both sides. Then I would let the father who asked me to take photos tell the officer exactly why I was taking photos.

I, GET, there are child molesters out there, I have had my own experiences in talking to them and once threw one out of my neighborhood just as he got off a bus. I asked the bus driver to hold the bus for a minute and then told the child molester to get right back on that bus or I would arrest him. After about a minute of his complaining he did get on the bus and left the area. My house was a block away. Right/wrong, I just don't care. I was not going to have a child molester near my children and I knew he did not live in the area. But there are also millions of parents who simply want to have photographs of their children playing sports. Those people should not be denied.

Dennis

Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana

You need an official response and that can only come from the city attorney or prosecuting attorney for the county and or city. Anything short of this is an opinion, and that will be just one of many. Ask for the response to be in writing, then just act accordingly.

forensics7 Loc: Davidson, NC

I agree with you as a parent photographing children, but you have to remember there were all kinds of parents using cell phones at various games so they can't disallow me because I have a better or bigger camera. One comment earlier mentioned the issues of surveillance camera's by stores- towns, door bell camera's and so forth, so children are photographed all the time when on public property. If I were posting the photos of kids on internet or with newspaper that would be another story and would need consent but I have not done that. Just took photos of one or two families at their request.
I have since checked with the local police, town rec and local FBI friend so I am good to go on public property and intend to return to the soccer fields as needed.

goldstar46 Loc: Tampa, Fl

=======================================================

Dale...

I am so glad you have a "Resolution" on your end. It was my belief that that would be the outcome BUT, although I "was" a cop (retired(, and I gave you the "Florida Cop" answer, I am NOT a real "attorney" and I have never "played one on TV.." ha ha ha

NOW having said that, you still may get resistance for the "European" gentleman because of his E.U. belief... Be prepared for the encounter, and 'stand you're ground' for us, as photographers, we must NOT allow our 'Rights' to be eroded away because of bullying or those who are 'un-informed of our U.S.A. laws

As I stated, I did spend 3 weeks in France and encountered the exact same situation. Also, the police were called... AND... I am a retired cop........ They did NOT care... it is what 'their culture and laws' are and I had to 'Stand Down' because I was in no position to defend myself on such short notice...

Greate for you and your 'outcome'........

Move forward....... and please report back to us as your 'adventure' continues

I, for one, would be most eager to learn of any further developments

Best regards
George Veazey
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gessman Loc: Colorado

It sounds to me like you need to be talking to the Park Department, instead of the cops, to see what the arrangement is with the soccer league that plays there and what the stipulations are between those two entities. Here in Colorado, this might fall under the protocol of "Event Photography" and there is a certain anticipated etiquette involved where crowds of potential customers gather in direct reaction to the efforts of the event organizers such as a 5K race where the participants often register and pay an entrance fee, or not, etc. Due to the fact that it is their chosen means of earning a living, the event promoters or managers, who put in a lot of hours and hard work, not to mention that there is a certain level of "investment risk," usually retain control over who can do photography for profit and they hire people to do the shooting, by the hour, and retain exclusive rights to all sales of photos, t-shirts, etc., of the events they organize.

Professional photographers generally honor the sanctity of the intent of that agreement, or so I'm told, and do not attempt to try to sneak in a few shots to sell. A photographer who wants to cash in on event work must seek out the event promoters and put their name in the hat for future events and be able to show a high quality of work for such events as they are applying to shoot. When it comes to who photographs kids leagues, unless you are a parent, there is a strict protocol for that and you must join a particular association and undergo a rigid background investigation to be allowed to be in contact with the kids. Never mind that the vast majority of child abuse occurs at the hands of a relative, friend of the family, neighbor, school worker, coach, or scout leader, etc.

Locally, south of Denver there is a large State Park surrounding a lake the Corps of Engineers built, for flood control and a reservoir for Denver's water supply. An annual 5k race is held there and the park is closed off for public use, as is that soccer field in question, and in effect, the control of which belongs to the event promoter who can have anyone with a "capable camera" who looks like they are there to compete for the potential photographic profits ejected from the grounds, notwithstanding the ever presence of the State Park Rangers. Being a hobbyist and unaware of these nuances, I wandered into one of the races one year with a "pro looking" camera with a big white lens and set up near the finish line to get some "action" shots and was approached within a few minutes. I like to shoot action, not sure why but it appeals to me. That's why I got into the hobby in the first place - I had three boys in about every kind of sports there was when they were young right on up to now shooting semi-pro football games for my oldest son who coaches a team.

After the introductions, we talked for a few minutes and I was able to appease the interviewers that I wasn't there to compete with them to sell photos. As there often is at events, they had a booth set up to print on the spot and take orders for t-shirts, coffee mugs, etc. It turned out that they were a man short so they offered me a job which I declined. A couple of weeks later I got a call from the promoter. He wanted to see what I had. A couple of his hired photographers didn't do an adequate job and he tried to buy my shots which I declined to sell. I'll never know precisely what his motive was, whether he actually needed/wanted my shots or if he was just testing to see if they were for sale but, he did try to recruit me to work his upcoming events and ragged me for over a year. :)

radiojohn

I do not see anywhere that you explained to the guy that the father asked you to take the photos. Did you? Unless this guy had any authority there, that should have been it. Keep in mind that anyone photographing young boys or girls these days raises eyebrows!

As an aside, I spent 10 years handling PR and general communications for a new multi-million dollar religious location on 100 acres. It was filled with all kinds of lovely photo ops.

We were besieged by photographers of all kinds. Most were amateurs, but some were trying to create items for sale. Others were trying to shoot wedding announcements, senior photos or college student assignments on the private property.

Finally, we put out foot down. NO tripods (spikes scratched marble floors and got in the way of religious pilgrims), NO wedding-type shots (gave the impression that there was some kind of wedding chapel there, not so!), NO senior portraits (one guy was shooting his granddaughter in a spandex outfit caught in the air doing a split...in front of a internment area for stillborne children.) NO school assignment shots (the shrine was not a prop and students were showing up to photograph models in scanty outfits.)

This was all put in writing and anyone with an elaborate camera bag was given a copy.

Non-commercial enthusiasts who knew the rules still had all the access they needed.

Schoee Loc: Europe

[quote=goldstar46]######

LFingar]

in some instances, no amount of logic and no amount of facts will change the opinion of some Europeans. They have a different opinion and a different view on things and I have seen it firsthand in Paris France.

Europeans have a whole different mentality with regards to what they consider personal rights.
—————-
It is not a case of mentality or what they consider, the fact is their LAW is different. For example Google street view is almost non existent in Germany because of privacy laws. I think (could be wrong) there was a case in France where the judge ruled an expectation of privacy in a car does exist when a photographer had caught someone through a car window. In Spain there are some restrictions that don’t exist US or most English speaking countries. You have to go by the law of where you are. Also be aware that regardless of the law I have seen some of these ‘hot blooded’ Southern European types get violent with just the appearance of a camera.

Naldo

I think it is absurd & silly for people to get all crazy about a photographer taking pictures of them. Anything that is already open to public view in the "public square" should be fair game for photography.

What I would obviously be opposed to are behaviors by photographers which are unreasonably imposing. . . such as firing off a high-power flash near a stranger's face without warning, or using a "selfie stick" to take a shot up a lady's skirt, or getting so close to a subject that you intrude upon their activity.

Taking shots of some kids playing soccer on a public field should not require special permission. Cameras are not weapons.

IDguy Loc: Idaho

Interesting assertion. Do you have any legal backing for it?

IMHO “public property” rights cannot be overwritten by the public employees granting a lease. The lease would have to specifically give rights to the leaseholder.

For the case in question it would more likely be a use permit than a lease. The permit would need to specify the rights of the permitee. Limiting public access is unlikely.

Your advice is correct. If there is an agreement it would rule. And it would be public information.

whatdat Loc: Del Valle, Tx.

Your first & last sentences seem to be a contradiction to each other.

one_eyed_pete Loc: Colonie NY

Here's how I interpret that.

I can "respect" your opinion and listen to you because you have a right to have your opinion. However, I do not have to agree with your opinion and I'm not obligated to comply with your opinion.

Naldo

Some of the most interesting (to me) photos I have ever seen were from times long past. Photos that would likely be disallowed or at least frowned upon by the "behavior police" nowadays who seem to think they need to control everything we think and do and say without their express permission.

One photo I really enjoyed studying was of some inner city children (oh my!) playing in a NYC street on a hot summer day in the 1930s. A water main had burst, and the street was flooded. Most of them took advantage of the impromptu "swimming pool" to have fun and get a little respite from the sweltering summer heat. Photographs of those kinds of moments are priceless captures, forever frozen in time.

Who is anybody to say that the photographer did some kind of wrong by snapping that shot? I think that the people who would find some kind of wrong in it are actually the ones who are wrong-headed.

clint f. Loc: Priest Lake Idaho, Spokane Wa

My 16 year old daughter wished the traffic cam needed her permission to take a photo of her “California” stop and the ensuing ticket.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Close your eyes for a moment and imagine the clucking hens of UHH all down at the neighborhood soccer pitch with all their cameras and advice...