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Auto-Focus Fine Tune Lenses
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Dec 28, 2020 19:59:40   #
sscnxy
 
I check every lens I buy for center focus and for front or back focus issues. If the central focus itself is off, I return that lens because there's nothing I can do about glass misalignment. If there is a front or back focus problem within the range of my camera's allowed adjustment, I make that correction in camera. It is a very tedious process, because multiple shots have to be taken at each adjustment value to accurately confirm that particular adjustment. Sometimes the correction needed is as much as + or - 10 or more, so you can imagine the stack of images that needed to be looked at and compared side by side to come to the conclusion that that degree of adjustment was required.

While it is probably true that if I shot only landscapes or shot only at apertures of 5.6 or smaller, where the DOF would be wide enough to hide any front or back focus, or if my len's IQ and camera's resolution were less than pro grade, I wouldn't have to be too concerned about front or back focus problems. However, when I shoot a portrait at wide apertures whether on tripod or with VR, I want to be sure those eye catchlight details and eyelashes are razor sharp. I wouldn't have that confidence without tuning.

In the days before this feature was built into the higher end DSLR's, we were at the mercy of the merchandise we bought and had to live with a lens + camera combination that was off. Fortunately, we can do something to fix that now. Yes, it is tedious, but it's not rocket science.

NY

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Dec 28, 2020 20:00:39   #
sscnxy
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"...How many of you out there fine tune your lenses?"
Jules you might be better served if your stated this as how many who work commercially fine tune your lenses... Lots of opinions so far, very little validation of inferences...

Jules I don't have deep pockets and my client work demands commercial quality... To this end I check ALL my lenses whether they are Nikkors, Sigma or Tokina glass... I have and shoot all these optics... for the most part of my newer Nikkors tend to be very close... However I purchase a lot of older kit... Since I shoot primarily fashion and portraiture I'm heavy into the 80-200mm focal range... my primes are either f/1.4 or f/1.8 while zoom optics are nearly all f/2.8.

Please realize that it's very easy to mess up trying to fine-tune... You seriously need to double check your results with LiveView which btw is ALWAYS in focus... Most folks are naive about contrast detect verses phase detect thus are clueless why they seriously need to verify their efforts... Trust but verify...

Just so you know I'm not simply bringing my "opinions" to the table.. Below please find a target from "tuning" an epic "mint" AF 80-200mm f/2.8 one-touch I purchased for $280... There are vintage gems like this on eBay, if you know what you're buying... So in this case I scored a fabulous portrait lens at a fraction of a new Nikkor... Albeit it certainly had a back-focus issue that was correctable... you mileage may vary...

Oh, btw, the newest Nikon FF bodies now allow you to Fine-Tune at both ends of a zoom optic... Sweet!
The D6 and D780 have this feature... If in doubt Fine-Tune for the FL you use the most... In my case for fashion editorials and portraiture, it's 135mm (mid-way between min and max) on my 80-200mm; 70-200 and 70-210mm glass. Which I've found to be a universal "Sweet Spot" for most zooms in this range.

Hope this helps and maybe take the other "opinions" here with a proverbial "grain of salt"
Please have a Happy Holiday Season and a wonderful New Year ahead Julies
.
"...How many of you out there fine tune your ... (show quote)




NY

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Dec 28, 2020 20:07:11   #
sscnxy
 
editorsteve wrote:
I use my Pentax K3 with a Tamron 18-200 (made for aps-c sensor) that required A LOT of correction...9 on the 10 point scale Pentax allows for each of up to 10 lenses. I corrected at a number of focal lengths and got best results -- near perfect -- around 50. This was by far the biggest correction i have ever had to make on any lens. But I have a bunch of "dumb" old manual lenses (some nearly 50 years old!) that test perfect. Go figure.


That's because manual lenses are not using the camera's AF function. You focus MANUALLY.

NY

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Dec 28, 2020 20:14:21   #
sscnxy
 
MJPerini wrote:
Every Manufacturer added the AF fine tune feature to DSLRs because all manufacturered items have tolerances, Cameras & Lenses are no exception. By and large they do a very good job but occasionally the DSLR is at one end of the allowable Tolerance and a given lens may be at the other. In this instance focus accuracy can be improved with AF Fine tuning. Doing the test (which is easy to do manually or with one of the automatic applications) lets you know how your cameras & lenses match up. Ive done it on many cameras and many lenses, both Nikon & Canon on cameras that are used professionally. Most times, I have found adjustment is not needed, but Sometimes it is and in those cases it can help a great deal. It mystifies me why this is a controversial topic?
There are no rules, If you choose not to do it, or don't feel you need it, that is perfectly fine. Many folks have seen it work, so they test. The Manufacturers created the adjustment because they saw a clear need. If you test enough cameras & Lenses you will find some that need it. But if you have cameras & lenses that perform well out of the box, thats a good thing. But it does not mean that the adjustment is useless.
My experience tells me that it CAN be helpful in some cases, and in my view, Knowing is better than not knowing.
Every Manufacturer added the AF fine tune feature ... (show quote)


You hit the point R

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Dec 28, 2020 20:15:55   #
sscnxy
 
MJPerini wrote:
Every Manufacturer added the AF fine tune feature to DSLRs because all manufacturered items have tolerances, Cameras & Lenses are no exception. By and large they do a very good job but occasionally the DSLR is at one end of the allowable Tolerance and a given lens may be at the other. In this instance focus accuracy can be improved with AF Fine tuning. Doing the test (which is easy to do manually or with one of the automatic applications) lets you know how your cameras & lenses match up. Ive done it on many cameras and many lenses, both Nikon & Canon on cameras that are used professionally. Most times, I have found adjustment is not needed, but Sometimes it is and in those cases it can help a great deal. It mystifies me why this is a controversial topic?
There are no rules, If you choose not to do it, or don't feel you need it, that is perfectly fine. Many folks have seen it work, so they test. The Manufacturers created the adjustment because they saw a clear need. If you test enough cameras & Lenses you will find some that need it. But if you have cameras & lenses that perform well out of the box, thats a good thing. But it does not mean that the adjustment is useless.
My experience tells me that it CAN be helpful in some cases, and in my view, Knowing is better than not knowing.
Every Manufacturer added the AF fine tune feature ... (show quote)


You hit the points RIGHT ON. There should be no controversy.

NY

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Dec 28, 2020 20:38:57   #
wsa111 Loc: Goose Creek, South Carolina
 
I check all my Nikons for either front or back focusing. D800, D750 & D7500. Some lenses are close. My 24-70 VR needed -8 on my D800. I set them at wide open & the zooms in the midway area.
Well worth the time when you look at the photos.

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Dec 28, 2020 21:20:31   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
TriX wrote:
So in an earlier post, I promised to add a chart showing the calibration of my lenses using both my older Canon 5D3 and my current 5D4 body - here it is. Note that all these are with the lens wide open at the recommended testing distance (20-40x the FL). Notice a couple of things. First, every lens required some correction to get the AF perfect, and you can believe that of 5 Canon’s L series lenses (which are used by a large percentage of pros all over the world) are not all bad or out of spec. And secondly, in all except one case, the correction moved in the same direction when moving from the 5D3 to the 5D4. And finally, there are no subjective judgements in these tests - they are all repeatable objective measurements. All cameras are different, all lenses are different, and if you shoot at large apertures and/or small DOFs where the AF accuracy is critical, AF calibration can make a difference if you want or need it spot on.
So in an earlier post, I promised to add a chart s... (show quote)


So is it your position that the DIY solution is better than factory calibration? I've done both on my Nikon gear and found the Nikon calibration and adjustment to be universally superior to the DIY approach - (and Tamron and Sigma as well).

But your results are interesting in that DIY does not do well with zooms, showing a spread of 5 to as much as 10 pts which supports my claim that focus errors are often not linear. The 70-200 on the 5Dm4 would be really soft at 70mm if you dialed in +14 correction when it only needs +4.

Now here's the rub - you are testing at a given distance - the non-linear focusing behavior you introduced in your first link shows that the problem of focus accuracy, even on a prime lens, is something that is not easily corrected with a one or even a two point DIY adjustment. This wild variance in results is the reason I leave fine tuning to the guys with the proper hardware and software tools to make it right.

I'm afraid that DIY fine tune is a bit like color correcting for a print by using the print as your color standard, and not a stable consistent color target to make corrections. For my use, the DIY approach is like the button you push tp presumably stop traffice when you wan to cross the street - it feels good but in most cases it does nothing. The same for some elevator buttons.

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Dec 28, 2020 21:29:16   #
wsa111 Loc: Goose Creek, South Carolina
 
You do it your way & I'll do mine. If you want to send all your cameras & lenses to Nikon go for it.

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Dec 28, 2020 21:40:31   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
TriX wrote:
Hi Gene,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. So let me take your questions one at a time.

1) neither the lens or the camera is defective. I now use the lens on a 5D4 and while the correction is a little different, it’s still in the same direction and even without the correction, the lens is tack sharp. If you don’t correct your lenses, a correction of + or - 7-10 may seem like a lot - it isn’t. I have 8 Canon lenses, and 6 of then are L series and all of them require some correction to be perfect - it varies from 2-13 in either direction. Let me hasten to add that all of them are perfectly acceptable uncorrected, especially if stopped down a stop or two, but they are measurably better when corrected as I often shoot low light, wide open. And I would mention that is what many feel their lenses don’t require correction: (a) they have never seen them sharper, so they have nothing to compare to, and (b) if you typically stop down a couple of stops (and many do as a matter of course), the DOF “hides” the error.

2) yes, I do use the lens at other distances besides 5-15’, but those were the distances where I typically use the lens and I chose to demonstrate that while the correction does change (and here’s the point), it’s always better than no correction.

3) if you’ll notice the shot at the end taken at infinity, you’ll see that the lens still focuses fine, contrary to the assertion (and what I was demonstrating) that even with a substantial correction, it doesn’t prevent the lens from focusing at infinity.

4) you also asked if I mind a substantial defocus at 3’. The answer is that I rarely use a 135 at less than 3’ (I’ll have to look up the nearest focus for this lens) - I have a closer focusing true macro for those shots.

5) actually FoCal also has a seperate consistency test that defocuses and refocuses the lens multiple times and plots the error. In fact, that’s exactly what it does during the calibration - it defocuses and refocuses the lens multiple times at each correction point and all of those points are plotted on the graph, so it’s immediately apparent if a lens is inconsistent.

And that brings me to another point. The typical user that doesn’t calibrate their lenses doesn’t know (a) if their lens is focusing correctly - they have nothing to compare it to (b) when they acquire a new lens, they have no way of knowing if it’s a good copy except a subjective judgement as to whether a give image looks sharp (c) they also don’t know at what apertures their lens is sharpest (often assuming that’s a couple of stops down, which is NOT true of all lenses) (d) they don’t know how much acuity loss there is caused by diffraction at smaller apertures, and (e) they don’t know the repeatability of the AF. I immediately know all these things about all my lenses, not by subjective judgements, but by actual objective measurements. Later I will add a chart of my various lens vs correction and it will be apparent that almost all benefit from some correction. It may only increase the acuity 5-10%, but since I’m often paying $1000 for a lens or more, I want every last bit of sharpness it can deliver including and especially side open.

I come from a precision measurement and QA perspective where we calibrate all our tools because we know that every dimension and assembly has a tolerance, and if you add two complex assemblies together, the tolerances may stack up so they cancel, making everything “perfect” (which VERY rarely happens), but more likely they add to make the tolerance of the entire system worse than the tolerance of each individual part, so we calibrate the entire assembly, which is what lens calibration does. We also know that if your measurement instrument is flawed, or requires a subjective judgement, then it may lead to wrong conclusions. Case in point. Almost every week an OP posts an unsatisfactory image taken with a new lens or camera and wonders what the issue is. Is it AF, is it movement, is it inadequate DOF or SS? Did he get a “bad copy” of the lens? I never have any of those questions, because for less than $100 for ALL my lenses, present and future, I KNOW that I have a good lens or not and that I’m getting 100% of the acuity I paid for. And I don’t have to live with everything being “within factory tolerance”, but not as good as it could be. I don’t have to have my lens “matched” to a specific body, and I don’t have to ship my lenses and cameras both ways to and from the factory subjecting them to shock or damage which can undo the very reason I had them adjusted. Seems like a bargain to me.
Hi Gene, br br Thanks for taking the time to resp... (show quote)


I don't disagree with any of your results. It shows how well thought out the Focal system is.

However, it is a simple matter to begin testing a newly acquired lens by comparing a PDAF focused image to the CDAF one. This is where you start to see issues if they exist. Then you test that same lens on several bodies, and that will begin to filter out if the issue is lens or camera or both. In my use, the misbehaving components go in for adjustment. Lenses have software and mechanical components that can be adjusted, as do cameras. I sometimes get pushback at Nikon coming from a lazy tech who wants to adjust the body and not lens or vice versa - when I explain that I have multiple bodies and lenses, they usually do what I ask. All I can say is that I am very satisfied with the results I get following this approach. The funny thing is that any camera manual that talks about fine tuning always says it's not necessary if everything is working, but is helpful to make a correction in the field, or if you deliberately want to use defocus as a creative tool - but not as a permanent solution.

If a 4-10 pt difference is not all that much, then why do it in the first place? I can see if you use fast lenses wide open most of the time that accurate focus is important - and in fashion where working distances and focal lengths can become fairly consistent and fine tuning may be useful, but that just doen't work for me.

Oh, and the inability to focus at infinity is only with older lenses that have hard stops for infinity focus. With a large enough adjustment infinity focus could be compromised. Most modern lenses can focus past infinity I think - they would have to for their motors to settle on the correct focus plane at infinity.

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Dec 28, 2020 21:45:05   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
MJPerini wrote:
Every Manufacturer added the AF fine tune feature to DSLRs because all manufacturered items have tolerances, Cameras & Lenses are no exception. By and large they do a very good job but occasionally the DSLR is at one end of the allowable Tolerance and a given lens may be at the other. In this instance focus accuracy can be improved with AF Fine tuning. Doing the test (which is easy to do manually or with one of the automatic applications) lets you know how your cameras & lenses match up. Ive done it on many cameras and many lenses, both Nikon & Canon on cameras that are used professionally. Most times, I have found adjustment is not needed, but Sometimes it is and in those cases it can help a great deal. It mystifies me why this is a controversial topic?
There are no rules, If you choose not to do it, or don't feel you need it, that is perfectly fine. Many folks have seen it work, so they test. The Manufacturers created the adjustment because they saw a clear need. If you test enough cameras & Lenses you will find some that need it. But if you have cameras & lenses that perform well out of the box, thats a good thing. But it does not mean that the adjustment is useless.
My experience tells me that it CAN be helpful in some cases, and in my view, Knowing is better than not knowing.
Every Manufacturer added the AF fine tune feature ... (show quote)


Completely agree.

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Dec 28, 2020 22:00:04   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
wsa111 wrote:
You do it your way & I'll do mine. If you want to send all your cameras & lenses to Nikon go for it.



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Dec 28, 2020 22:09:24   #
Brucer Loc: Bedminster, NJ
 
I tested the calibration of all my Nikon lenses, my Tokina, and my Sigma, finding that all of the lenses but the Sigma were spot on. I bought the port that connects to my laptop for the Sigma and then spent a couple of hours working at getting the calibration right. I'm pleased with the result. But I will have to test the lens on occasion and probably have to do more calibration.

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Dec 28, 2020 23:24:39   #
Doc Barry Loc: Huntsville, Alabama USA
 
ronpier wrote:
Thankfully none of my Nikons make provisions for fine tuning and I’m glad. Ten Nikkor lenses that focus fine on three bodies. Life is good.


What bodies do you have? Are you certain none have AF fine tune?

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Dec 28, 2020 23:26:15   #
Doc Barry Loc: Huntsville, Alabama USA
 
Jules Karney wrote:
I am going to start a thread here and I hope the hoggers chime in with their thoughts.
How many of you out there fine tune your lenses?
I have a Nikon D500 and D4. The D4 you have to fine tune manually. I watched the video by Steve to help with the procedure.

Thoughts??


Use FoCal correctly and you will be happy.

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Dec 29, 2020 05:54:32   #
User ID
 
Jules Karney wrote:
I am going to start a thread here and I hope the hoggers chime in with their thoughts.
How many of you out there fine tune your lenses?
I have a Nikon D500 and D4. The D4 you have to fine tune manually. I watched the video by Steve to help with the procedure.

Thoughts??

AF fine adjustment is pretty routine for me, maybe cuz I don’t make a laborious “Manhattan Project” out of it. I have a simple method that noticeably improves AF accuracy.

But I don’t strive for the Nth degree of perfection cuz you can only perfect one or two distance-FL points anywho. No interest in the very thorough systems on the market cuz, after all, SLR AF is a cob job no matter how you tweak it. If I need dednutz perfect focus I use LV, either a LV camera or the LV option on an SLR.

One benefit of doing the AF adjustment and testing is that I know which lens-body combinations are fortunately near perfect with little or no tweaking, and I favor those in use. Likewise I know which combinations are to be avoided. I have an f/1.4 thaz great on one body but way off on another.

****************************

Oddly enough my tiny SL-1, which is so cheap that it has no adjustment for AF, just happens to be near perfect with my particular example of my fave midrange mini-zoom. Pure luck, but now those two are happily married. So even though it had no facility for adjustment I tested it anyway, and was very nicely rewarded.

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