Nothing new about the dilution. When I worked in clinics some of the meds would come in concentrated form, you just put in the correct liquid required and go on about your business. If somebody was getting a series of injections it would be ID just for them.
All vaccines have some overfill in the vial, whether liquid, frozen, or lyophilized. This is to compensate for the fact that it is impossible to retrieve 100% of the volume filled, small but normal variations in the fill syringe delivery, small but normal variations in the user's accuracy when removing the vaccine, etc, etc. It's always been this way and is perfectly normal. Some concentrated poultry vaccines are transported in liquid nitrogen and diluted 1000 fold or more just prior to use, and they are very effective.
machia wrote:
Why this dependence on automation?
And why are people doubting the ability of a trained person?
Pharmacists in pharmacies have mixed hundreds of millions of prescriptions over many decades. That’s what pharmacists do.
Perhaps the people who believe so heavily in automation also want the self driving car?
Not a discussion about
their ability so much as
the ability to get "extra" doses.
I believe we all think they are quite able in their profession.
Paul J. Svetlik wrote:
It might be a rather beneficial for those, who would like to make a home-made covid-19 vaccine, I guess?
I've been looking online for homemade vaccines.
David Martin wrote:
It sounds like you think the manner of administering Covid vaccine is something out of the ordinary and something to worry about.
Many medications are issued in concentrated form or desiccated form, and saline needs to be added to the vial to make the medication the correct concentration before doses are drawn up.
Frozen Covid vaccine will be 1) thawed, 2) brought to correct concentration by adding sterile saline using sterile technique, 3) individual amounts for a single correct dose will be drawn up one at a time in separate sterile syringes, and 4) administered within 6 hours, one dose administered per patient.
Why are you looking for something to worry about?
And - no offense - unless you're trying to joke or create a pun, giving your post the title that "Yes the vaccine will be diluted" is irresponsible terminology, suggesting to readers that the vaccine they receive will be less effective than it should be.
It sounds like you think the manner of administeri... (
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My experience with vaccines is limited to a needle in my arm. It's good to get info from people who know how they work.
I had a previous post, wondering about the vaccine, and I mentioned diluting it, not knowing that they actually do dilute it. When I saw this article, I thought I'd pass it along.
I don't have to look for things to worry about. They appear daily.
"trained persons" that's the key!
47greyfox
Loc: on the edge of the Colorado front range
tshift wrote:
I think a little Jameson will do just fine. Thanks
Tom
Bushmill’s is equally effective and imho, a smoother flow thru the hypo.
tshift
Loc: Overland Park, KS.
47greyfox wrote:
Bushmill’s is equally effective and imho, a smoother flow thru the hypo.
Since we are talking about mixing, what do you think about a little Bushmill's and Jameson together?? Thanks
Tom
jerryc41 wrote:
I posted a question about this a day or two ago - the fact that the vials from Pfizer will have five doses rather than four. When the person extracts a certain amount, it will then be diluted to make a full dose. I don't know how that will work, but I'd prefer automation.
Below is from a Washington Post article from "an all-day meeting by a Food and Drug Administration advisory panel..."
"Pfizer made vials that have enough of the concentrated vaccine for at least five doses. And when you're preparing the vaccine, you take it out of the vial, defrost it, and dilute it with liquid to increase the volume. Then you do a controlled mixing process and it turns out that depending on how you draw out the doses, there can be a little more than the five doses that were promised — sometimes six doses, sometimes seven. If you can take advantage of it, it's just sort of a nice bonus. It would make sense that they wanted to put in enough volume so there would always be at least five doses in the vial, because that's how it was designed."
I posted a question about this a day or two ago - ... (
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I think others have nailed it. Chemically, there is an equation for dilution that is based on the notion that the amount of solute (here, medication) remains the same regardless of the amount of dilution. A teaspoon of salt in 3 cups of water has the same amount of salt as a teaspoon of salt in a 5 gallon bucket. It seems the author edited poorly, effectively suggesting each dose could or would be used for multiple injections. As others have stated, I'm sure the original portioning of the doses is automated and that human error in dilution can't have an effect on the volume of medication, but only the volume of injection.
Tex-s wrote:
I think others have nailed it. Chemically, there is an equation for dilution that is based on the notion that the amount of solute (here, medication) remains the same regardless of the amount of dilution. A teaspoon of salt in 3 cups of water has the same amount of salt as a teaspoon of salt in a 5 gallon bucket. It seems the author edited poorly, effectively suggesting each dose could or would be used for multiple injections. As others have stated, I'm sure the original portioning of the doses is automated and that human error in dilution can't have an effect on the volume of medication, but only the volume of injection.
I think others have nailed it. Chemically, there ... (
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Ahhh.
SAME AMOUNT of salt, yes,
but in TOTALLY different concentrations between adding to 3 cups and 5 gallons of water.
Do it and taste it, see which salt concentration is more palatable.
Tex-s wrote:
. . . human error in dilution can't have an effect on the volume of medication, but only the volume of injection.
Hmmm, think you don't quite have it. So if you don't mind, a little more clarification. An error in dilution would have an effect (ie. if the person put in 1 ml of saline instead of 0.5 ml that they were supposed to). Pfizer presumably shipped it in a way that optimized stability (often biological molecules are more stable when more concentrated or didn't want the vial too full in case of cracking the glass, etc) so have the preparer add a particular volume of sterile saline to dilute the medication to the correct volume. The amount of the injection is also carefully measured by taking it up in the syringe. However Pfizer presumably built in an extra volume (and amount of medication) so that if the person drawing up the syringe pulled in too much or had bubbles, they could squirt the extra out (which is thus wasted). If the people are careful drawing up the liquid, they will have this extra amount of vaccine in the vial which can then be used to inject an additional person.
ricardo00 wrote:
Hmmm, think you don't quite have it. So if you don't mind, a little more clarification. An error in dilution would have an effect (ie. if the person put in 1 ml of saline instead of 0.5 ml that they were supposed to). Pfizer presumably shipped it in a way that optimized stability (often biological molecules are more stable when more concentrated or didn't want the vial too full in case of cracking the glass, etc) so have the preparer add a particular volume of sterile saline to dilute the medication to the correct volume. The amount of the injection is also carefully measured by taking it up in the syringe. However Pfizer presumably built in an extra volume (and amount of medication) so that if the person drawing up the syringe pulled in too much or had bubbles, they could squirt the extra out (which is thus wasted). If the people are careful drawing up the liquid, they will have this extra amount of vaccine in the vial which can then be used to inject an additional person.
Hmmm, think you don't quite have it. So if you do... (
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People also need to understand that to get the required dilution that ALL the required saline must be mixed prior to drawing the first dose. Not a portion of saline added for each draw.
I would not anticipate the "extra" in the vial to be a full dose.
jerryc41 wrote:
I've been looking online for homemade vaccines.
Without the dna chip eh! It is prudent to be sceptic and I am with You on that.
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