Yes, the Vaccine Will Be Diluted: I posted a question about this a day or two ago - the fact that the vials from Pfizer will have five doses rather than four. When the person extracts...

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I posted a question about this a day or two ago - the fact that the vials from Pfizer will have five doses rather than four. When the person extracts a certain amount, it will then be diluted to make a full dose. I don't know how that will work, but I'd prefer automation.

Below is from a Washington Post article from "an all-day meeting by a Food and Drug Administration advisory panel..."

"Pfizer made vials that have enough of the concentrated vaccine for at least five doses. And when you're preparing the vaccine, you take it out of the vial, defrost it, and dilute it with liquid to increase the volume. Then you do a controlled mixing process and it turns out that depending on how you draw out the doses, there can be a little more than the five doses that were promised — sometimes six doses, sometimes seven. If you can take advantage of it, it's just sort of a nice bonus. It would make sense that they wanted to put in enough volume so there would always be at least five doses in the vial, because that's how it was designed."

Julian Loc: Sarasota, FL

So, what it is the big deal? What do we do with that information?

Paul J. Svetlik Loc: Colorado

It might be a rather beneficial for those, who would like to make a home-made covid-19 vaccine, I guess?

ricardo00

jerryc41 wrote:

When the person extracts a certain amount, it will then be diluted to make a full dose. I don't know how that will work, but I'd prefer automation.

And when you're preparing the vaccine, you take it out of the vial, defrost it, and dilute it with liquid to increase the volume. ."

I assume there is a misprint/miss statement here, you can't take it out of the vial when it is frozen. They must have meant take "the vial out and defrost it". They then add saline to the whole vial before taking the individual dose.
I am sure Pfizer uses a robot to dispense the vaccine into the vial. However would you really want a robot to fill the syringe and inject it into your arm?

David Martin Loc: Cary, NC

jerryc41 wrote:

I posted a question about this a day or two ago - ... (show quote)

It sounds like you think the manner of administering Covid vaccine is something out of the ordinary and something to worry about.
Many medications are issued in concentrated form or desiccated form, and saline needs to be added to the vial to make the medication the correct concentration before doses are drawn up.
Frozen Covid vaccine will be 1) thawed, 2) brought to correct concentration by adding sterile saline using sterile technique, 3) individual amounts for a single correct dose will be drawn up one at a time in separate sterile syringes, and 4) administered within 6 hours, one dose administered per patient.
Why are you looking for something to worry about?
And - no offense - unless you're trying to joke or create a pun, giving your post the title that "Yes the vaccine will be diluted" is irresponsible terminology, suggesting to readers that the vaccine they receive will be less effective than it should be.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

"...take it out of the vial, defrost it"..

How the heck they gonna get it out of the vial if it is frozen?????

And is that anything like running more water through coffee grounds to get more coffee?
Giving administrators the opportunity to "dilute" and get as many as seven doses out of a vial?
Why don't they dilute the shit out of it and get 25-30?

What happened to a "dose" being a specified amount of a drug?
Why dilute it?

David Martin Loc: Cary, NC

Longshadow wrote:

"...take it out of the vial, defrost it"..

How the heck they gonna get it out of the vial if it is frozen?????

And is that anything like running more water through coffee grounds to get more coffee?
Giving administrators the opportunity to "dilute" and get as many as seven doses out of a vial?
Why don't they dilute the shit out of it and get 25-30?

What happened to a "dose" being a specified amount of a drug?
Why dilute it?

See my post directly above yours. The vaccine is supplied in CONCENTRATED form, which needs to be diluted to the correct concentration before administering to patients.
And do you really think that the "specified" amount of the vaccine to constitute an adult dose has not been determined?
Implying that people will be given "diluted" vaccine is misleading, inflammatory, bordering on slander, and really reveals one's lack of knowledge.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

David Martin wrote:

See my post directly above yours. The vaccine is supplied in CONCENTRATED form, which needs to be diluted to the correct concentration before administering to patients.
And do you really think that the "specified" amount of the vaccine to constitute an adult dose has not been determined?
Implying that people will be given "diluted" vaccine is misleading, inflammatory, bordering on slander, and really reveals one's lack of knowledge.

Or, your inference......
If it's concentrated and must be diluted, still there are only so many doses in a vial for the proper dilution. If they can get up to seven on a four or five "dose" vial, yes, that would be additional dilution.
At the recommended dilution there are "X" doses in a vial, not X+3...

David Martin Loc: Cary, NC

Longshadow wrote:

If it's concentrated and must be diluted, still there are only so many doses in a vial for the proper dilution. If they can get up to seven on a four or five "dose" vial, yes, that would be additional diction.

The vials in question contain more than 5 doses in concentrated form. No one is going to over-dilute in order to "create" more doses.

But here's some cheerful news: the Moderna vaccine for Covid-10 does not require dilution! So you, Jerry and others can relax.

Until the next conspiracy theory....

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

David Martin wrote:

The vials in question contain more than 5 doses in concentrated form. No one is going to over-dilute in order to "create" more doses.

But here's some cheerful news: the Moderna vaccine for Covid-10 does not require dilution! So you, Jerry and others can relax.

Until the next conspiracy theory....

I'm not worried, just discussing "dilution" since the initial post suggested getting "more" doses out of a vial than specified...

If you get X ml in a vial, add Y ml of saline to the vial, you'll get Z doses from the vial. I would imagine all the time as X and Y will be constants. At least I would anticipate them to be........

But we all know how "accurate" reporters can be.

HOHIMER

jerryc41 wrote:

I posted a question about this a day or two ago - ... (show quote)

"... and dilute it with liquid......". Make mine OJ please!

tshift Loc: Overland Park, KS.

HOHIMER wrote:

"... and dilute it with liquid......". Make mine OJ please!

I think a little Jameson will do just fine. Thanks

Tom

machia Loc: NJ

Why this dependence on automation?
And why are people doubting the ability of a trained person?
Pharmacists in pharmacies have mixed hundreds of millions of prescriptions over many decades. That’s what pharmacists do.
Perhaps the people who believe so heavily in automation also want the self driving car?

srt101fan

David Martin wrote:

It sounds like you think the manner of administeri... (show quote)

I love your posts, Doc! Your clear explanations are much appreciated (and needed!)

SonyBug

David Martin wrote:

The vials in question contain more than 5 doses in concentrated form. No one is going to over-dilute in order to "create" more doses.

But here's some cheerful news: the Moderna vaccine for Covid-10 does not require dilution! So you, Jerry and others can relax.

Until the next conspiracy theory....

Jerry will never relax, until he has a woman to motivate him. He needs one that was a drill Sargent for about 25 or 30 years, so he always has something to do...