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Nov 23, 2020 11:31:02   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
The "press?" Does that include Fox? 😊 My opening point was not about bashing; it was about perpetuating the myth that the court rulings actually mean something when millions base their own opinions not on evidence presented in court, but on twitter rants.

The role of the internet in enabling hate, fear and lies is something that will surely be fascinating for historians 50 or 100 years from now.

As I mentioned in the main forum topic where the OP blamed Canon for something Canon didn't do, misplaced blame has become rampant in our society, made more dangerous by how quickly comments can be seen by others and passed along.

Critical, thoughtful examination of facts is a nearly extinct art. Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance (two related terms I learned within the past couple of years, along with "truth decay") are depressing but interesting topics to read about for anyone who is tired of simply slinging mud at one another.
The "press?" Does that include Fox? 😊 M... (show quote)


The Social Dilemma (Netflix) supports and amplifies your point. It's scary stuff.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:32:08   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
Texcaster wrote:
Fully one half the nation supports the new "vigilante nation" Trump has unleashed. To paraphrase one of the founders ... "The republic is ours if we can hang on to it."


Only in your case "The democracy is ours if you can crack enough heads".

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Nov 23, 2020 11:34:54   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
GeorgeH wrote:
But let's hope she stays around to perhaps calm the troubled waters!


Agreed.

Reply
 
 
Nov 23, 2020 11:37:56   #
GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA
 
Perhaps in the future we should welcome international observers, if we want to dispel the fears in the US and across the world that our elections are corrupted. I seem to recall that at a presidential election in the last 20 years or so international observers were not allowed.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:43:58   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news articles whenever Trump's team loses another court case.

It has been obvious for two weeks that the court cases are simply theater. There is no need for truth or evidence or courts when millions base their thoughtfully considered opinions on Twitter rants.

Democracy cannot be sustained with this much hate and divisiveness, fear and lack of willingness to listen or make compromises for the greater good.

Is there a generation behind ours that will be able to pick up the pieces? Or are we witnessing the end of this great experiment? I would appreciate hearing from those who have studied our history and can provide insights.

Thank you.
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news a... (show quote)


Twitter is the essence of Democracy. A transparent, uncorrupt voting system is the essence of a Republic. Sadly those who come after us do not have the intellectual foundation or personal connection to move what was once the greatest nation on Gods green earth toward a manifest destiny. Sorry but there is a reason states like Idaho are being over run with refugees of states who mirror the liberals conception of what this entire nation should be.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:48:21   #
denverdon
 
I'm not a historian, but I learned a long time ago, standing on two sides of a line, peeing on each other's shoes doesn't solve any problem. I've had the misconception that our strength was based on a common respect for different ideas and a willingness to work together for a "common goal". I find it very hard to believe that idea still resides in our political environment. I pray for a time when we can come together, listen to each other's point of view and resolve our differences through compromise. I will be very embarrassed to leave todays environment for my grandkids.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:54:45   #
Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal
 
idaholover wrote:
Twitter is the essence of Democracy. A transparent, uncorrupt voting system is the essence of a Republic. Sadly those who come after us do not have the intellectual foundation or personal connection to move what was once the greatest nation on Gods green earth toward a manifest destiny. Sorry but there is a reason states like Idaho are being over run with refugees of states who mirror the liberals conception of what this entire nation should be.


Twitter would be a great tool if it were in the hands of a responsible citizenry.

Sadly, it's in our hands.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:56:28   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
Texcaster wrote:
Are you paying attention? Even Fox reported the planned vigilante kidnapping of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer?

"Dominate the streets!" Don Covita's war on America reelection imperative?

Kyle Rittenhouse killing two people?

POTUS Trump pandering to and stroking these groups since his old birther days? None of that rings a bell?

He's responsible for these groups being out and packin' and barking mad. You know, a legit alt-viable career

path now. No one knew that before Don Covita worked his magic. (Kellyanne disarmed these guys)
Are you paying attention? Even Fox reported the pl... (show quote)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZYsW_PxWAM&t=10s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJCDe7vdFfw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NebWc4HH8yM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnTTND0UcM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnTTND0UcM


Sincerly
Barkin mad and packin

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Nov 23, 2020 11:57:11   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
Rose42 wrote:
IMO we are witnessing the beginning of the end. Its been a slow boil that amped up as the popularity of social media grew. I don't think that's a coincidence. Watch people when you're out and many are busy or distracted by their phones. When we used to go out to eat we had conversations at the table but now people are often busy on their phones. They are more distracted than ever. Instead of playing outside as we used to do, children are on phones, tablets and playing computer games.

There is an anger in society that has been growing as the use of social media has grown. Look at the effect that one nutty tweet can have on people. Look at the memes people create and copy as if they were true. The next generation has been raised with this silliness and I don't see them being able to avert this downward slide. We have some capable leaders in this country but they won't run. Who can blame them in this current climate of animosity?
IMO we are witnessing the beginning of the end. I... (show quote)
It's very possible that something catastrophic and unthinkable will need to happen, and then a reboot will take place. I try not to be in utter despair because there are still millions of truly good people in this country who are young enough and strong enough to steer the ship through this storm.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:58:44   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
GeorgeH wrote:
It is possible. Dennis and I had a pleasant on-line conversation just recently. We both stuck to the issue, and there were no insults bandied about. I don't recall Dennis being offensive on line or yelling. Soba1 and I have had private conversations that were good, but this was before Trump's rampages..... Too many seem to feel that "the other" is irredeemable, that he (most Sewer dwellers are male) and that the other cannot be reasoned with. I've seen insults that if uttered face to face could result in violence. I wonder how many of the worst offenders really believe the c**p they post, or merely enjoy stirring the pot.
Feel free to use the signature line, if you wish. I got it from a colleague who was happy to share; I imagine she'd be happy to see her handiwork used by another.
It is possible. Dennis and I had a pleasant on-li... (show quote)
Like the trolls in main discussion, obviously some are here just for the "entertainment" value. Glad you and Dennis get along

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Nov 23, 2020 11:59:38   #
btbg
 
denverdon wrote:
I'm not a historian, but I learned a long time ago, standing on two sides of a line, peeing on each other's shoes doesn't solve any problem. I've had the misconception that our strength was based on a common respect for different ideas and a willingness to work together for a "common goal". I find it very hard to believe that idea still resides in our political environment. I pray for a time when we can come together, listen to each other's point of view and resolve our differences through compromise. I will be very embarrassed to leave todays environment for my grandkids.
I'm not a historian, but I learned a long time ago... (show quote)


Compromise is currently impossible. That is not said to be a trouble maker, it is because of the goals of the Democratic party versus the goals of the conservatives who supported Trump.

One group wants larger government and a move toward socialism. The other group wants smaller government and less regulation and control.

For the 40 years I have been involved in election politics Republicans have compromised with Democrats to get something done. In each case that has moved the country further left. The last time one of those compromises moved anything to the right was when Newt Gingrich's contract with America forced Clinton to cut spending and "balance" the budget.

Since the right wants smaller government and the left will not compromise in that direction, look at Pelosi's actions regarding covid relief if you doubt that, there is no place left to compromise.

Pelosi asked for 3.4 trillion in relief and Republicans offered 2.2 trillion or something like that. Trump eventually went up all the way to 2.8 trillion and instead of meeting in the middle as soon as the election was over Pelosi moved her offer to 3.8 trillion.

McConnell has done similar things in the senate. It is not entirely one sided. However, those of us who are conservative have asked our congressmen and senators to stop compromising unless that compromise leads toward smaller government and fewer regulations. Do you see any evidence of Democrats willing to compromise in that direction? I don't.

Compromise means Snow letting the Affordable care act out of committee, which led to Democrats passing it without a single Republican vote. Had Snow not compromised we would not have that albatross around our neck. Compromise was Flake and McCain voting dozens of times to repeal the act until the Republicans actually had enough votes to do it and then suddenly voting no.

The days of compromise are gone because what each side wants is irreconcilable to the other. Like it or not, that is the facts. The moderates in either side are not driving the agenda, the extremes on the left are driving the Democratic agenda, and it is truly hard to tell who is driving the Republican agenda, but conservatives are begging them to go to further to the right.

You can disagree with my characterization of the left if you wish, but Bernie Sanders and AOC seem to be driving the agenda, and for conservatives that is absolutely "not in my America". So, the end result is the same regardless of which side you are on. There is no room left to compromise unless the left is willing to move at least slightly to the right.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:59:53   #
GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
It's very possible that something catastrophic and unthinkable will need to happen, and then a reboot will take place. I try not to be in utter despair because there are still millions of truly good people in this country who are young enough and strong enough to steer the ship through this storm.


Hear, hear!

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Nov 23, 2020 12:00:41   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
letmedance wrote:
Linda, your common sense and less than combative attitude does not belong in the Attic.
All hope is lost, he who enters here?

.

Reply
Nov 23, 2020 12:01:58   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
Bazbo wrote:
Politics have become a religion. Disagreement has become jihad. Insult has become argument. Opponents have become enemies.

And most importantly, beliefs have become facts. Very few people can distinguish what they believe and what they know.

We can blame social media and the Internet but I believe (not know) that this collective dysfunction is the result of millions of individual decisions that we all make every single day.

We are the Twitter mob.
Indeed.

.

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Nov 23, 2020 12:05:06   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
Bazbo wrote:
Twitter would be a great tool if it were in the hands of a responsible citizenry.

Sadly, it's in our hands.


Twitter would be a great tool if it were in the hands of a responsible owner and management.

Sadly, it's in their hands.

Just so you know, the first amendment does not only apply to those deemed responsible by others.

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