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Nov 23, 2020 01:05:17   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
SteveR wrote:
After Portland and elsewhere, this is what you come up with?

Wh**ever these individuals/groups might be that you've mentioned I don't think that they fit into the term "vigilante."


Are you paying attention? Even Fox reported the planned vigilante kidnapping of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer?

"Dominate the streets!" Don Covita's war on America ree******n imperative?

Kyle Rittenhouse k*****g two people?

POTUS Trump pandering to and stroking these groups since his old birther days? None of that rings a bell?

He's responsible for these groups being out and packin' and barking mad. You know, a legit alt-viable career

path now. No one knew that before Don Covita worked his magic. (Kellyanne disarmed these guys)



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Nov 23, 2020 08:30:44   #
BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD
 
To your original query -
"generation..." behind ours - hard to judge, especially when judges assume power they shouldn't use and the Supremes do nothing to stop them. For instance - the constitution grants ONLY the state legislatures power to set the rules for e******ns in their state -but look at the judges in MI, PA, and, I think, one or two others that have made their own rules and then shoot down those that challenge them. If our generation and those behind us don't stop such then likely not.

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Nov 23, 2020 08:51:51   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
BboH wrote:
To your original query -
"generation..." behind ours - hard to judge, especially when judges assume power they shouldn't use and the Supremes do nothing to stop them. For instance - the constitution grants ONLY the state legislatures power to set the rules for e******ns in their state -but look at the judges in MI, PA, and, I think, one or two others that have made their own rules and then shoot down those that challenge them. If our generation and those behind us don't stop such then likely not.
To your original query - br "generation...&q... (show quote)
Can you please provide a specific example of one of those state judges making their own rules?

Court orders are available online; attached is the most recent ruling in PA:

Attached file:
(Download)

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Nov 23, 2020 09:21:11   #
GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Can you please provide a specific example of one of those state judges making their own rules?

Court orders are available online; attached is the most recent ruling in PA:


Linda, as you have probably noticed many of the Trump supporters make rather wild assertions and then seem offended if anyone challenges them or asks for documentation. I should try to find my copy of Eric Hoffer's The True Believer. It speaks about the cult formed by Mr Trump and his followers, IRRC.
It's good to have another calm moderate voice here in The Attic, or as I call it The Sewer. Buckle up, it could be a rough ride!

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Nov 23, 2020 09:31:03   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
GeorgeH wrote:
...It's good to have another calm moderate voice here in The Attic, or as I call it The Sewer. Buckle up, it could be a rough ride!
Thanks George. btw, I love your signature line!!

I've been curious about whether we can coax some thoughtful, responsible commentary from those who usually just yell.

H**e, fear, lies, social disconnect, lack of empathy, lack of personal responsibility, narcissism...not good traits for a leader if our hope is for a healthy democracy.

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Nov 23, 2020 10:07:38   #
Rose42
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news articles whenever Trump's team loses another court case.

It has been obvious for two weeks that the court cases are simply theater. There is no need for t***h or evidence or courts when millions base their thoughtfully considered opinions on Twitter rants.

Democracy cannot be sustained with this much h**e and d******eness, fear and lack of willingness to listen or make compromises for the greater good.

Is there a generation behind ours that will be able to pick up the pieces? Or are we witnessing the end of this great experiment? I would appreciate hearing from those who have studied our history and can provide insights.

Thank you.
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news a... (show quote)


IMO we are witnessing the beginning of the end. Its been a slow boil that amped up as the popularity of social media grew. I don't think that's a coincidence. Watch people when you're out and many are busy or distracted by their phones. When we used to go out to eat we had conversations at the table but now people are often busy on their phones. They are more distracted than ever. Instead of playing outside as we used to do, children are on phones, tablets and playing computer games.

There is an anger in society that has been growing as the use of social media has grown. Look at the effect that one nutty tweet can have on people. Look at the memes people create and copy as if they were true. The next generation has been raised with this silliness and I don't see them being able to avert this downward slide. We have some capable leaders in this country but they won't run. Who can blame them in this current climate of animosity?

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Nov 23, 2020 10:18:41   #
GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Thanks George. btw, I love your signature line!!

I've been curious about whether we can coax some thoughtful, responsible commentary from those who usually just yell.

H**e, fear, lies, social disconnect, lack of empathy, lack of personal responsibility, narcissism...not good traits for a leader if our hope is for a healthy democracy.


It is possible. Dennis and I had a pleasant on-line conversation just recently. We both stuck to the issue, and there were no insults bandied about. I don't recall Dennis being offensive on line or yelling. Soba1 and I have had private conversations that were good, but this was before Trump's rampages..... Too many seem to feel that "the other" is irredeemable, that he (most Sewer dwellers are male) and that the other cannot be reasoned with. I've seen insults that if uttered face to face could result in violence. I wonder how many of the worst offenders really believe the c**p they post, or merely enjoy stirring the pot.
Feel free to use the signature line, if you wish. I got it from a colleague who was happy to share; I imagine she'd be happy to see her handiwork used by another.

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Nov 23, 2020 10:24:28   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
Texcaster wrote:
Fully one half the nation supports the new "vigilante nation" Trump has unleashed. To paraphrase one of the founders ... "The republic is ours if we can hang on to it."



Didn’t we hear something similar, albeit in a milder form, about the Tea party in 2008.
That was quickly subverted and absorbed by the Republican Party.

Same thing will happen to Trumpican politics after he is out of office . Those thing he did accomplish will be overcome by reports bad acts.

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Nov 23, 2020 10:44:33   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
The "press?" Does that include Fox? 😊 My opening point was not about bashing; it was about perpetuating the myth that the court rulings actually mean something when millions base their own opinions not on evidence presented in court, but on twitter rants.

The role of the internet in enabling h**e, fear and lies is something that will surely be fascinating for historians 50 or 100 years from now.

As I mentioned in the main forum topic where the OP blamed Canon for something Canon didn't do, misplaced blame has become rampant in our society, made more dangerous by how quickly comments can be seen by others and passed along.

Critical, thoughtful examination of facts is a nearly extinct art. Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance (two related terms I learned within the past couple of years, along with "t***h decay") are depressing but interesting topics to read about for anyone who is tired of simply slinging mud at one another.
The "press?" Does that include Fox? 😊 M... (show quote)


You are very correct, the Media, along with the help of internet giants, is the Judas Goat leading us over the cliff of Socialism.

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Nov 23, 2020 10:47:56   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Thanks. I don't know who "stated" the China control over Biden. But my pov is that not much will be accomplished because of Republican opposition, though I suppose if the Dems win one of the Georgia seats, there might be more opportunities.

Policies in place...how many did Trump reverse from Obama? As one example, separating young children from their parents (ref: DACA) seems pretty draconian to me.

Green Deal and gas prices...at some point the US will face the true horrors of c*****e c****e (as if the Gulf Coast hasn't already, just this year). Most of those currently in power won't be around, but their and your grandchildren or great grandchildren will inherit the mess.

Lockdowns, of course, are a very complex issue. How much of the contagion was/is caused by the "I don't wear a mask because it's my god-given right not to, and I choose to not live in fear" group? We'll never know. How many deaths are acceptable when weighed against economic collapse? The answers will be different from healthy young adults with mortgages and car payments vs. the retiree on guaranteed income.

I read that a Republican senator from Alaska spent 3 days in the hospital with his c***d infection; what if there hadn't been a bed available?
Thanks. I don't know who "stated" the Ch... (show quote)


Linda, your common sense and less than combative attitude does not belong in the Attic.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:11:39   #
Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news articles whenever Trump's team loses another court case.

It has been obvious for two weeks that the court cases are simply theater. There is no need for t***h or evidence or courts when millions base their thoughtfully considered opinions on Twitter rants.

Democracy cannot be sustained with this much h**e and d******eness, fear and lack of willingness to listen or make compromises for the greater good.

Is there a generation behind ours that will be able to pick up the pieces? Or are we witnessing the end of this great experiment? I would appreciate hearing from those who have studied our history and can provide insights.

Thank you.
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news a... (show quote)


Politics have become a religion. Disagreement has become jihad. Insult has become argument. Opponents have become enemies.

And most importantly, beliefs have become facts. Very few people can distinguish what they believe and what they know.

We can blame social media and the Internet but I believe (not know) that this collective dysfunction is the result of millions of individual decisions that we all make every single day.

We are the Twitter mob.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:20:58   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
Bazbo wrote:
Politics have become a religion. Disagreement has become jihad. Insult has become argument. Opponents have become enemies.

And most importantly, beliefs have become facts. Very few people can distinguish what they believe and what they know.

We can blame social media and the Internet but I believe (not know) that this collective dysfunction is the result of millions of individual decisions that we all make every single day.

We are the Twitter mob.


Good words Bazbo, I do not tweet or follow Twitter, maybe that is why I do not go off the deep end. I would however like an investigation into e******n f***d to settle the argument, I do not see how Biden can govern effectively without one. Our belief that our Nation is above such malfeasance needs to be tested and proved as more than just the opinion of the Talking Heads of the media world.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:26:24   #
Curtis_Lowe Loc: Georgia
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news articles whenever Trump's team loses another court case.

It has been obvious for two weeks that the court cases are simply theater. There is no need for t***h or evidence or courts when millions base their thoughtfully considered opinions on Twitter rants.

Democracy cannot be sustained with this much h**e and d******eness, fear and lack of willingness to listen or make compromises for the greater good.

Is there a generation behind ours that will be able to pick up the pieces? Or are we witnessing the end of this great experiment? I would appreciate hearing from those who have studied our history and can provide insights.

Thank you.
I'm becoming annoyed with positive-sounding news a... (show quote)


I think that any real interference in counting irregular or illegal b****ts is just too hot to handle and the amount of time that is available to review unreasonable to do such a task if the desire was there otherwise. And just think what would happen in our streets and with the purveyors of "t***h" on our TVs if there was any delay to the Harris/Biden administration taking over. It would be calamitous, to say the least.

Thanks for your post.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:28:41   #
GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA
 
Rose42 wrote:
IMO we are witnessing the beginning of the end. Its been a slow boil that amped up as the popularity of social media grew. I don't think that's a coincidence. Watch people when you're out and many are busy or distracted by their phones. When we used to go out to eat we had conversations at the table but now people are often busy on their phones. They are more distracted than ever. Instead of playing outside as we used to do, children are on phones, tablets and playing computer games.

There is an anger in society that has been growing as the use of social media has grown. Look at the effect that one nutty tweet can have on people. Look at the memes people create and copy as if they were true. The next generation has been raised with this silliness and I don't see them being able to avert this downward slide. We have some capable leaders in this country but they won't run. Who can blame them in this current climate of animosity?
IMO we are witnessing the beginning of the end. I... (show quote)


Rose, I have to agree generally with you. I've seen far to many people "glued" their phones. A few years ago I ate lunch out, to avoid being interrupted if I ate in my office, and many times I saw 2 or 3 folks come in, sit down, order, eat, and leave while barely speak, other than to the phone.
Far too many internet posts are pretty worthless. Few people give sources for their posts. Kids missed even before the p******c the chance to be outside, to hang with friends, to be a kid! The concept of the "play date" I find absurd. Back in the day our Mother told my Brother and me to be home for lunch or dinner, and turned us loose. Somewhere I have a link to an article describing a playground in Wales where kids are allowed to "run wild!" Set fires, etc, with minimal adult supervision. I think the article may have been in The Atlantic magazine. In The Yard there are minor cuts and bruises, but nothing beyond what I experienced as
a kid.

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Nov 23, 2020 11:30:41   #
GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA
 
letmedance wrote:
Linda, your common sense and less than combative attitude does not belong in the Attic.


But let's hope she stays around to perhaps calm the troubled waters!

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