Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Thanks. I don't know who "stated" the China control over Biden. But my pov is that not much will be accomplished because of Republican opposition, though I suppose if the Dems win one of the Georgia seats, there might be more opportunities.

Policies in place...how many did Trump reverse from Obama? As one example, separating young children from their parents (ref: DACA) seems pretty draconian to me.

Green Deal and gas prices...at some point the US will face the true horrors of c*****e c****e (as if the Gulf Coast hasn't already, just this year). Most of those currently in power won't be around, but their and your grandchildren or great grandchildren will inherit the mess.

Lockdowns, of course, are a very complex issue. How much of the contagion was/is caused by the "I don't wear a mask because it's my god-given right not to, and I choose to not live in fear" group? We'll never know. How many deaths are acceptable when weighed against economic collapse? The answers will be different from healthy young adults with mortgages and car payments vs. the retiree on guaranteed income.

I read that a Republican senator from Alaska spent 3 days in the hospital with his c***d infection; what if there hadn't been a bed available?

btbg

I would go much further than you have gone.

We are already spending far above our means. Biden wants to increase that spending exponentially and he is a small government guy compared to Harris. I don't believe that Biden will last to the 2022 midterms. He is clearly showing signs of dementia and he repeatedly shut down his days before 10 a.m. while he was campaigning. How can he possibly sustain the hours expected of a president.

Now, then Linda, I think our country is in serious trouble. Most of the right will never accept Biden's e******n as legitimate because of the many things that circumstantially show evidence of fraud. But, if Trump were to prevail and win enough lawsuits to get the results overturned then the left will r**t and destroy our cities because they will not accept the results.

There were several things that could have helped the situation, but it is too late for most of them now. For example, the Supreme Court could have taken up all of the cases of e******n rules being changed by governors, secretaries of state and judges and made one cohesive ruling. Whether everyone agreed with the ruling or not, at least the rule changes or lack thereof would have gone through the process and most people would have accepted that. Instead the Supreme Court took some cases and not others. Sometimes stopped the changes and sometimes refused to rule at all.

That started the problem with people not accepting the results of the e******n.

In the same way, e******n officials could have given the e******n observers monitors so that when they were moved back from the tables they could still have actually seen what was happening. That t***sparency would have helped negate the belief that there was fraud. They also should not have taken a four hour plus stop in counting in Detroit and Philadelphia. That makes it easier to accuse the e******n workers of fraud.

We could also clearly and t***sparently investigate Smartmatic and D******n Software and their machines to make sure that there was no fraud there, since their own user manual says that they are at high risk of fraud.

All of that would have helped lend trust in the final outcome of the e******n, but of course, none of that has happened.

Now, as far as the polarization I agree with Soba, if the Democrats manage to steal the Georgia senate races then our country is done. Yes, the word steal is an inflammatory word. However, Andrew Yang has called on Democrats all over the country to move to Georgia just for the e******n and the Republicans both had more v**es in the general e******n than either Democrat. In any case if the Democrats get control of the house, senate and presidency for two years, then I agree with Soba that there will be nothing left of our nation that anyone can recognize.

On the other hand, if Republicans hold on to the senate and stop most of Biden and Harris' proposed policies and the courts stop most of his executive orders then it is possible that sometime in the future we will be stable enough that cooler heads can prevail.

As it stands now though if Democrats run roughshod over Republicans, which is what is happening in Oregon, Washington and California, there will be no coming back from the damage they can do.

In the last 10 years Oregon's government has made rural Oregon much less livable than it was. More taxes, less services. More potholes at the same time as higher gas taxes, but all the money is being taken from the rural areas and sent to the cities, which I believe was the intent of the way the laws were drafted.

As long as there is that kind of mistrust, there is no way for people to work together to reconcile anything. Example, there is no way that Kraken, John Firm Mike Bazbo and I will be able to hold rational discussions and come to a consensus because while some of us try to be civil others immediately name call and call us liars. That is exactly what people like Schiff, AOC, Pelosi et al have been screaming about Republicans while at the at the same time Republicans have been calling them liars. You and I both know that we can't work with liars because there can be no trust if you don't believe what the other side says is their honest believe or t***h.

So, in answer to your question I strongly believe that if the Democrats win the Georgia senate seats our nation will not survive. And even though I support Trump I fear that if he is declared the winner at this point in time our nation will not survive that either.

btbg

Lets just discuss the c*****e c****e issue for a minute. If the U.S. dropped our co2 emissions to zero tomorrow but China, India, Iran, Turkey and Russia continue to increase their co2 emissions what would our sacrifice gain anyone?

See, that is the big problem with the c*****e c****e alarmists. The Paris Accords did nothing to stop China from continuing to pollute. In fact they are building huge numbers of coal fired power plants as we speak. So, the green new deal stuff could bankrupt us while not doing one thing to help the environment. That is the ugly t***h.

It would make a lot more sense to work to find a scientific solution to help lower the risk of flooding in low lying areas and to make advancements to improve society than to destroy our economy for no benefit.

For example, much of the Netherlands is below sea level, and they are doing just fine. So technology can definitely help with a lot of problems. But, how are you going to get everyone into electric cars and out of internal combustion engine cars. I don't happen to have the money necessary to purchase an electric car. Should I have to walk the rest of my life, or pay an outrageous price for gas and be punished for living in a rural area where electric cars aren't even practical? The green new deal is not going to significantly help the environment but it is going to destroy a lot of people financially. And, that is all assuming that the climate alarmists are right. There is still plenty of reason to believe that they are not entirely correct. Just go back and look at how many times they have said we have just 10 years left before we reach the tipping point. And those are all since the 1970s when they were telling us that we were about to go into a new ice age.

On top of that, the fossil record where I currently live shows clearly that the climate here was warmer at some historical point than the climate alarmists are currently saying man made g****l w*****g is going to cause. The fact is even if they are 100 percent right about how much the earths temperature is going to rise there will still be both winners and losers from that c*****e c****e and it won't be the end of the world.

soba1 Loc: Somewhere In So Ca

Your last sentence is spot on, excellent post

SteveR Loc: Michigan

Mid-term primaries are just over a year away. After two years of Biden and Harris, we'll take the House back.

LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America

What vigilantism do you refer to?

T***h and fact only.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and extensive comments. I knew there was more to the attic than juvenile name calling 🤗

Both Pelosi and McConnell need to be gone. In 2019 McConnell blocked two bills on e******n security:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mcconnell-blocks-bills-e******n-security-heels-mueller-warnings/story?id=64569009

Pelosi's ripping up Trump's state of the union address (?) was horrifying to see.

In hindsight, as you say, there was a lot that could have/should have been done in advance of this e******n. One example: some states allow opening and/or counting of mail-in v**es ahead of E******n Day, some don't.

Since I had tried to ignore politics for the 7 years prior to 2020, I only learned recently that Trump insisted the 2012 e******n w*s f********t because Obama was re-elected, that the 2016 e******n w*s f********t because he (Trump) didn't win the popular v**e, and that the 2018 senate race in AZ (?) was fraudulent because the Republican lost.

The federal budget and federal laws/intrusions have defined Democrats from Republicans for decades, right? (I don't know) The difference in the past four or eight or 12 years seems to be the unwillingness to compromise. We are not a nation of two philosophically differing parties anymore, we're a nation of extremists.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

One observation about flooding of coastal areas: that is the most obvious and immediate thing we notice, but there is more, including droughts and fires in the west. All of these, including any temperature changes, affect food crops.

I understand that for many folks there is not enough proof (yet) and that China and other countries refusing to do their part make it much harder to be willing to do ours.

I read a fascinating novel earlier this year, "New York 2140" by Kim Stanley Robinson. It takes place after the polar ice caps have melted, leaving NYC and other coastal cities underwater. After resulting wars and economic collapse, a new world order begins. Ultimately, the book is about hope and the resilience of the human spirit, so maybe we can die with the comfort of thinking no matter we we've done poorly now, it won't be the end of mankind.

pfrancke Loc: cold Maine

some thoughts -

the internet, makes me think of "mob rule". The farmer is yelling "my daughter got raped", and the ropes get thrown over the tree limbs. It is a story of emotion rather than of logic.

There is less accountability to t***h than there used to be. Both the left and the right are frothing at the mouth and neither side has any regard for such a simple thing as T***h. I know that T***h is kind of hard to figure out, but our current president has done his part to ensure that T***h won't see the light of day for many decades.

My personal theory is that the ultra-rich are controlling the media, and the media in turn controls us. The media's job is a simple one, feed their fans the BS required such that they become even more fanatical. You turn to your favorite channel and suddenly you are no longer an American, but you have become a Republican or a Democrat. Remember, T***h no longer is part of this equation. Need someone to h**e? do not worry, the media will let you know who you should h**e!

G***n E****y - is becoming more competitive. If we are smart, we will jump on the band wagon and get our own chunk of this new technology. It is not going to go away.

G****l W*****g - yeah, we are F...ked.

P******c - thank God for the v*****es, but we will still lose 3/4 of a million people before we have this under control. And I blame Trump for that. Trump has made a mockery of Mask wearing and social distancing, and because of this, our death toll is likely twice (or more) what it would have been otherwise. Thanksgiving and Christmas will result in a breakdown of an already stressed health care system, and people will die.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

The same vigilantes that have always lurked in America's shadows, working hand in glove with the crappy corrupt donut jockeys

From the escaped s***e pattyrollers to the KKK to the union busters to the camo barstool patriots ... it's a US tradition.

"... of goons and ginks and company finks and the deputy sheriffs who made the raids ... " Woody Guthrie, Union Maid

Read a book. Don't be in denial all your life.

Ry Cooder - Vigilante Man (live) Woody Guthrie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4KmbUCwkyE

... and almost 50 years later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2o5sJXLc3M

"... well Trevon Martin was only 17 years old and he ran into a vigilante man." Ry C.

Ry Cooder - Everybody Ought to Treat a Stranger Right (Live in studio)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbQ83HM8C_A

btbg

The fires aren't being caused by drought. At least not the size of the fires. My uncle worked for the forest service and was a GS 13, so high level. His job was researching how the Forest Service could grow healthier trees when they replanted.

He quite when he and his research partner were ordered to write the spotted owl recovery plan. His partner wrote the plan that was used to shut down Eastern Oregon sawmills. However, there was one major difference. When he wrote the plan he wrote in the opening paragraph "This is a recovery plan for in the event that the spotted owl should ever become endangered. It is not at this time."

So, Thomas, who was appointed to lead the Forest Service by Clinton and had worked in the same office as my uncle had the first paragraph removed from the document and then had the spotted owl reclassified as the northern spotted owl and the southern spotted owl. The difference between the two was which side of the Klamath River they were on. The northern end of the spotted owl range is also barred owl range and barred owls are predators of spotted owls. So, in the south spotted owls will nest in scrub oak, but in their northern range they nest in larger trees for cover.

Sorry for the length of this post, but it is necessary to explain why we now are having extreme fire conditions.

When they subsequently stopped most logging on federal land in both northern California and portions of Oregon and Washington they also shut the forest service's nurseries. Prior to that occurring based on my uncle's research, which is how they are currently managing forests in Spain because he went over there when he left the forest service, they collected seeds to replant at the elevation the trees were going to be replanted at, then grew them to just over a foot tall in a nursery prior to planting. They then thinned the trees that survived to six feet apart two years later, then two years after that they thinned again to leave adequate space and to get rid of unhealthy trees.

Then then thinned a third time after the trees were 8-10 years old to keep only the most healthy and to make sure that there was sufficient space.

Well, when they closed the nurseries they planted all the trees they had left and then they failed to do any thinning. The end result is that the forests are way to dense, leaving trees vulnerable to beetle k**l as well as drought and other problems. And, leaving the forest so dense that it is easy for fires to crown and much harder to get to the fires to fight it. So, those trees have grown up with too little water, not so much because of drought but because there are far too many trees for the amount of water there is. That would not have been a problem had they thinned like historically.

That is why the fires are currently being so catastrophic. There is a book about one of the large fires in Arizona that will largely confirm that is the problem.

Adding to the problem and making it even worse is current rules make it impossible to cut any "old growth" which is currently defined as bigger than 23 inch diameter on the butt end regardless of the age of the tree. So, now most of those trees are considered old growth and since they weren't thinned many of them are diseased and all of them are stressed.

That is why we are having the big fires. The c*****e c****es may be aiding the problem, but the Sierra Club and the forest service have caused the problem.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Thanks very much.

I want to make another observation about your comments relating to e******n rules. I just read that what Trump is objecting to in Wisconsin are laws that have been in existence since 2011 and 2016. Trump did not object to the 2016 law that went into effect in October of that year. See this.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Thanks very much for sharing your viewpoints, Piet.

The anonymity of the internet, and the ability for anyone to declare themselves an expert, is a massive problem. But worse is the inability or unwillingness of people to think for themselves. Mob mentality indeed 😷

btbg

I have no idea what Trump is objecting to in Wisconsin and since I don't trust most of the media, I may never know what the exact complaint is.

However, it is not a surprise of someone in either party does not complain about the process one time and then does the next. For example previously Elizabeth Warren, Ron Wyden and several other Democrats complained about D******n Software in a congressional hearing a few years ago saying that it was susceptible to fraud. Now that they appear to have won you haven't heard a peep out of them about the software. Exactly the same thing in reverse. In politics currently nothing surprises me no matter which side you are on.

Oh, by the way, if you question the fact that they have allowed trees to grow too close together just look at historical photos of Ponderosa Pine forests and then look at current photos of the same forests. I realize that Oregon's fires this year were in Douglas Fir, but most of the recent fires have been in pine. You will see if you look at old photos versus the last 10 years that the forest is much more dense. That makes trees vulnerable to bugs, drought and makes fires much hotter. All problems that we are seeing.

Add in that we used to aggressively fight all fires and now if they start in a wilderness area we do not start to fight them until it comes out of the wilderness area and by then it may already be out of control.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

After Portland and elsewhere, this is what you come up with?

Wh**ever these individuals/groups might be that you've mentioned I don't think that they fit into the term "vigilante."