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Sky Replacement? Really?
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Oct 22, 2020 19:53:59   #
Gallimaufry Loc: Denver, CO
 
Fotoartist wrote:
Is photography an art or isn't it? If it is, are there any rules to art?


Agreed.

And to point out something obvious, if you shoot in RAW, how do you then intellectually and emotionally determine when an edit is ok and when it is not? If you shoot in JPG format, then any argument for "purity" flies out the window, since by definition a JPG is an edited photo, just done by the camera. Does an automatic edit in the camera count as editing or not?

So are Ansel Adams' photos considered cooked or not? He did a lot of editing to get the look he desired.

How about studio shoots involving a great deal of manipulation of light? You get a picture of what the light manipulation produced, but it's not the true picture of the model/family standing there against a plain backdrop. Isn't that cooking the photo also?

Just a thought.

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Oct 22, 2020 19:55:10   #
Bike guy Loc: Atlanta
 
Study painting. Study History of Art and Art Appreciation. Notice how much does not represent the actual view as perceived by the human eye, but the human mind.
Perhaps journalistic and street photography should depict the actual scene as it existed.
But if you believe photography is an art form, why limit the artist’s creativity?
The final product will be the answer. It is admired it is not.

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Oct 22, 2020 20:40:43   #
10MPlayer Loc: California
 
I don't have a problem with it. In fact, sometimes when I'm out looking for something to shoot and nothing very interesting comes into view, I'll shoot pictures of the pretty puffy white clouds. I have a folder name Clouds that I keep in reserve in case I make a nice capture but have a dreary white or gray sky. If you're a news photographer you have to show what's there. If you're shooting to create art, or at least you desire a beautiful image, keyword "image", then you do whatever you feel will make it more appealing.

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Oct 22, 2020 21:41:24   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
lorvey wrote:
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes massage my photos a lot by cropping, using spot repair, cloning out small unwanted bits, adjust exposure, and sometimes add a little saturation. But sky replacement to me seems like too much. Do you still call it a photo after you replace the sky? Do you enter it in a contest without saying anything. Do you accept compliments without saying anything? Not trying to be a purist, but when you start adding and replacing items in a photo, it seems to me it is no longer a photo. It's probably photo art. Not trying to start a fight, just interested in your perspective.
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don... (show quote)


Was the adjusted sky a photo? In the end, photographers who chose to “adjust” their product by any of available options is removing authenticity from the original. I guess it is simply up to each user to determine just how and what they chose to add or subtract from their art form.

Cheers!

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Oct 23, 2020 00:05:24   #
tdozier3 Loc: Northern Illinois
 
lorvey wrote:
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes massage my photos a lot by cropping, using spot repair, cloning out small unwanted bits, adjust exposure, and sometimes add a little saturation. But sky replacement to me seems like too much. Do you still call it a photo after you replace the sky? Do you enter it in a contest without saying anything. Do you accept compliments without saying anything? Not trying to be a purist, but when you start adding and replacing items in a photo, it seems to me it is no longer a photo. It's probably photo art. Not trying to start a fight, just interested in your perspective.
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don... (show quote)


I have to admit it gave me a bit of a laugh myself when I saw an ad for it

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Oct 23, 2020 01:58:09   #
baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
Totally agree - with the exception of photojournalism as you pointed out.
-B

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Oct 23, 2020 02:01:06   #
baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
lorvey wrote:
Thanks for your comments, Baron.


Thank you for bringing this topic up - I feel like so many people have this notion that post production is cheating when in fact it is at least 50% of the art - it contributes as much to the final images uniqueness as does the shot itself - it can make the difference between good shots and great ones.

I used to spend hours in the dark room dodging and burning to get prints just right - this is not as extreme as replacing a sky but it certainly goes beyond 'reality'.

Anyway - good discussion!
-B

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Oct 23, 2020 03:31:46   #
TonyBrown
 
I have no problems in tidying up a picture and removing some unwanted objects, say a litter bin or a tree branch that obstructs an image, but replacing a bland sky with a cloudy sky is a step too far for me.

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Oct 23, 2020 05:56:06   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
lorvey wrote:
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes massage my photos a lot by cropping, using spot repair, cloning out small unwanted bits, adjust exposure, and sometimes add a little saturation. But sky replacement to me seems like too much. Do you still call it a photo after you replace the sky? Do you enter it in a contest without saying anything. Do you accept compliments without saying anything? Not trying to be a purist, but when you start adding and replacing items in a photo, it seems to me it is no longer a photo. It's probably photo art. Not trying to start a fight, just interested in your perspective.
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don... (show quote)


All my images begin with vision, then processed through camera and finally computer. Any thing goes, limited only by imagination and skill. However you label it is irrelevant to me.

Photo manipulation is like seasoning on food...sure the food can be eaten without seasoning but why would you want to.

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Oct 23, 2020 06:29:57   #
Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC
 
joer wrote:
All my images begin with vision, then processed through camera and finally computer. Any thing goes, limited only by imagination and skill. However you label it is irrelevant to me.

Photo manipulation is like seasoning on food...sure the food can be eaten without seasoning but why would you want to.


I like your analogy, I to view photography the same way. The attached photograph (art) was taken with a Leica M3 and 50mm f2 Summicron lens in 1970, scanned into the computer converted to B&W in Nik Silver Flex Pro and converted to a charcoal drawing in Photoshop CS6. This was a vision I had even when taking the photo, but it took several years for the software to catch up to where I could perfect it.


(Download)

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Oct 23, 2020 08:07:24   #
cmc4214 Loc: S.W. Pennsylvania
 
tropics68 wrote:
There will no doubt, come a day, when software that will actually allow you to "improve" your images by the press of a button will be the norm. All of the "incorrect" issues in the image will be magickly altered so as to achieve adherence to all the "rules" of the road. Exposure, focus, cropping, contrast and even image size instantly according to Hoyle at the press of a key on your "device". It will be swell to say the least.
There will no doubt, come a day, when software tha... (show quote)


I agree, that day is coming, but will that reduce the value of photography as art if "anyone can do it"

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Oct 23, 2020 08:11:03   #
cmc4214 Loc: S.W. Pennsylvania
 
[quote=Howard5252]
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Re: Commercial Photography.


Most COMMERCIAL photographers, like me, don't get up every morning and do our best to create FAKERY or misrepresent, people, products or places. Most of our customer rare "SELLING STUFF"- products, services or "selling" themselves and want all of this to be shown in the best light.

I do agree with most of what you wrote. There is however quite a bit of "Fakery" going on in the advertising field. When I buy some Cherry Vanilla ice cream, I generally buy the brand that has the most tempting photo on the container (that's why it's there). I see luscious vanilla with cherries ... when i get home and open the container I see vanilla and flakes of cherries.
IF I were king: I'd pass a law that would still allow a seller to make claims about a product BUT if a photo was included in the advertising, the product MUST look like the photo.
Re: Commercial Photography. br br br Most COMMER... (show quote)


Especially McDonalds

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Oct 23, 2020 08:13:14   #
Canisdirus
 
cmc4214 wrote:
I agree, that day is coming, but will that reduce the value of photography as art if "anyone can do it"


Hate to burst the bubble...but anyone can already do it. Painting, sculpture, photography, writing...all it takes is practice.

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Oct 23, 2020 08:24:29   #
Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Hate to burst the bubble...but anyone can already do it. Painting, sculpture, photography, writing...all it takes is practice.


Not quite, lack of talent to paint, color blind, beginning of Parkinson and other factors make it impossible (at least for me).

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Oct 23, 2020 08:35:31   #
cmc4214 Loc: S.W. Pennsylvania
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Hate to burst the bubble...but anyone can already do it. Painting, sculpture, photography, writing...all it takes is practice.


No bubble to burst, I was asking for an opinion, and I appreciate yours, thank you.

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