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Stop this crop factor / equivalent focal length nonsense
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Aug 4, 2019 18:43:10   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Bill_de wrote:
50 - 60 is considered your central field of view. Your actual field of view is wider, but with a drop off in sharpness. Google "human field of view" to find some detailed explanations.

---


???
I can see stuff 90° to my left and right. Eyes combined ≈180°.
Does it have to be clear? I can tell a lamp from a coffee cup and a note tablet, but not as crisp as straight ahead.

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Aug 4, 2019 18:58:56   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Looks like I have opened another can of worms... but I would tend to agree with 180-200 degrees...

Longshadow wrote:
???
I can see stuff 90° to my left and right. Eyes combined ≈180°.
Does it have to be clear? I can tell a lamp from a coffee cup and a note tablet, but not as crisp as straight ahead.

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Aug 4, 2019 19:10:47   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
Looks like I have opened another can of worms... but I would tend to agree with 180-200 degrees...


No worms, just puzzles.

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Jun 16, 2020 08:15:05   #
Silverrails
 
repleo wrote:
We could avoid all of this ‘crop factor’ and ‘equivalent focal length’ confusion and nonsense if we all started thinking and expressing in terms of ‘Angle of View’ (AoV) or ‘Field of Vision’ (FoV) instead of the Focal Length of the lens. For example, if you were to say ‘I took this shot with my 7 degree lens’ it wouldn’t matter if you were referring to a 300mm FF, 200mm APS-C, or 150mm MFT or 380mm Medium Format. The AoV is what determines what is in your capture. As we are constantly reminded, the focal length of the lens stays the same regardless of what body it is mounted on and ‘crop factor’ is a somewhat misleading or even meaningless term. These days, the only thing ‘focal length’ info is good for is to know what size bag you need to carry.
Of course this change in habit would burn up a few brain cells for most ‘old timers’ and goodness knows, brain cells are in short supply here on UHH.
We could avoid all of this ‘crop factor’ and ‘equi... (show quote)


So, as a Newbie of approximately 4 years now, having a Nikon D3300 DX Crop-factor Camera of 1.5, I myself understand that a 50mm lens X the Crop-factor of 1.5 will offer me a F.O.V.= Field of View, of 75mm. Am I Correct in my understanding of "Crop-factor"?

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Jun 16, 2020 09:30:45   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
Silverrails wrote:
So, as a Newbie of approximately 4 years now, having a Nikon D3300 DX Crop-factor Camera of 1.5, I myself understand that a 50mm lens X the Crop-factor of 1.5 will offer me a F.O.V.= Field of View, of 75mm. Am I Correct in my understanding of "Crop-factor"?

...as compared to a full-frame or 35mm film camera.
People here too frequently leave that part out when crop factor is mentioned.

If it’s important for you to know what lens it would be similar to if you were using a full-frame camera, then fine. If you’ve never used a 35mm film camera or a “full-frame” camera then this info is pretty irrelevant unless you’re thinking of moving to a different format soon. Otherwise, you don’t need to worry about “what the Joneses are up to”

Just look through your lens and frame the photo with what you have.

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Jun 16, 2020 09:50:11   #
Silverrails
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
....when compared to a “full-frame” digital or 35mm film camera.


No a FULL FRAME Digital Camera as you surely already know has a Full Sized Sensor. Which I think produces a full sized 35mm image, NO CROPPING, thus what you see, is what you get. NO mathematical calculation required.
Personally, if I could afford a top of the line "Full Frame Camera & Lens" I certainly would. But my circumstances do not permit me to make that investment presently, maybe one day, it would be nice. I hope I am accurate in my definition of Full Sized Sensor= 35mm image, that was my understanding as a newbie that is still learning and desires to be taught any corrections that are required.

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Jun 16, 2020 10:15:30   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
Silverrails wrote:
No a FULL FRAME Digital Camera as you surely already know has a Full Sized Sensor. Which I think produces a full sized 35mm image, NO CROPPING, thus what you see, is what you get. NO mathematical calculation required.
Personally, if I could afford a top of the line "Full Frame Camera & Lens" I certainly would. But my circumstances do not permit me to make that investment presently, maybe one day, it would be nice. I hope I am accurate in my definition of Full Sized Sensor= 35mm image, that was my understanding as a newbie that is still learning and desires to be taught any corrections that are required.
No a FULL FRAME Digital Camera as you surely alrea... (show quote)


A “Full Frame” sensor is 24x36mm, give or take a mm.
Not heard of anyone using the term full size.
There are digital formats larger than the so-called full-frame.
Guess those would be fuller sized.

I shoot most of my jobs with my full-frame Nikon D810.
When I go out with my Fuji XE-2, (same size sensor as your D3300) I never think about crop factor.
I just shoot what I see through the finder. What I see is what I get, even with my adapted lenses.

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Jun 16, 2020 10:54:16   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Yet another ZOMBIE thread reemerges from the dead- long scrolled away in the catacombs of UHH but returns to haunt us! It all started when somebody wanted to change the nomenclature, lexiconic, or a common technical term in photography. Relating a lense's field angle to format is nothing new. An excerpt, attached here, form an ancient Kodak Professional Photoguide, published in 1977, has that information for all the popular film formats of the day, including 35mm. It makes no mention of "cropped" formats because digital photographs had not been invented yet but there were 1/2 frame the 35mm cameras and even sub-miniature (16mm) cameras and one only needed to do the math.

I think we all know that the actual sensor in a full-frame camera is not 24x36mm in physical size but the practical results are the same.

I kind moss Kodak- the manufactured some great stuff but most of all I miss their "biblical" data books and guides. They were great at solving technical problems and arguments. We used to joke that "the Great Yellow Father in Rochester hath spoken" and that was that!

When I first began to convert my studio (business) to digital production, there were no full-frame cameras and my first purchase was a Nikon D300. I took it along on my assignments, still using film, and would shoot some digital just to break in the new camera and see what it can do. On the fist Jon, I was shooting for a fitness gym franchise for "photomurals"- giant prints for a trade show display. I made 50 and 60-inch prints from my little D-300- no sweat! Of course, my latest full-frame system yields superior quality, and sure, I would like a $100,00+ medium format system but even as a full-time pro- that is way above my paygrade and budget. I just shot a food layout of snack items with my good old Canon D-5, where the images are displayed on the Jumbotron at our local NHL arena. You can see the salt on the popcorn- that's good enough for me and the clients too!

Shoot with what you can afford and apply your best technique and you will be good to go! I've seen great image coming for modest gear and well- not so good stuff coming from top-of-the-line cameras. It's really up to the photographer!

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Jun 16, 2020 11:28:04   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Yet another ZOMBIE thread reemerges from the dead- long scrolled away in the catacombs of UHH but returns to haunt us!


It’s less than a year old. (But barely)
Compared to some 5 year old threads that emerge from the dead here, this one’s still warm.

E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Shoot with what you can afford and apply your best technique and you will be good to go! I've seen great image coming for modest gear and well- not so good stuff coming from top-of-the-line cameras. It's really up to the photographer!


Bingo! I have a pro friend who shoots with Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 equipment.
He’s done several assignments for National Geographic.

E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I think we all know that the actual sensor in a full-frame camera is not 24x36mm in physical size but the practical results are the same.

And a full-frame sensor is approximately the same size as a 35mm film frame.


(Download)

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Jun 16, 2020 11:36:27   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
I guess I'm in the demographic that learned how to shoot using 35mm full frame gear, and from the age when zoom lenses were the size of a field artillery piece, slow as molasses, and not of very good optical quality.

I simply learned what to expect when I picked a lens for a shot - especially as that choice was a fixed, or prime as we say nowadays, focal length. If I was looking for a specific shot I would know whether to pick up a 200mm telephoto lens from my bag instead of a 135, or a 24mm WA instead of a 35 simply because I had a good expectation of the field of view, depth of field, and sense of perspective I could achieve with it. When I first switched to digital cropped format, this was the best place to start, and TBH, I still think in those terms.

If you didn't grow up photographically with this frame of reference, then it's all irrelevant anyway, but when camera makers were getting a lot of film camera users to step up to crop digital, it made a ton of sense to present their "equivalents" in this manner.

Andy

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Jun 16, 2020 11:55:31   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
A “Full Frame” sensor is 24x36mm, give or take a mm.
Not heard of anyone using the term full size.
There are digital formats larger than the so-called full-frame.
Guess those would be fuller sized.

I shoot most of my jobs with my full-frame Nikon D810.
When I go out with my Fuji XE-2, (same size sensor as your D3300) I never think about crop factor.
I just shoot what I see through the finder. What I see is what I get, even with my adapted lenses.


I've never understood this "just shoot what you see through the finder", like it doesn't matter what lens you have on your camera. At some point you had to decide which lens to put on the camera - wide, normal, tele, based on your distance from the subject, the perspective you want, how out of focus the background should be. The crop factor just helps make that decision for those already familiar with lenses on 35mm film or digital full frame.

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Jun 16, 2020 11:58:46   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
Bingo! I have a pro friend who shoots with Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 equipment.
He’s done several assignments for National Geographic.


It's like beauty before age! I called it a "ZOMBIE" because although there were some logical posts, there was a great deal of somewhat "ugly" exchanges. "Zombies" usually are not pretty!

Perhaps, admittedly, age is diminishing my patience for gratuitous negativism. There is gonna be conversations and arguments about the usual stuff- nomenclature, the rule of 3rds, aspect ratio, full-frame vs. crop, everything in photography vs. everything else in photography and that is all good, There are newcomers to the craft, to the forum so the old-times and more experienced would do well to have patience and help new folks out. The only posts and thread starters that irritate me are ones that are unnecessarily negative or rude. I don't know what possesses folks to initiate post with whatever term, question, subject, or question is "B.S., stupid, old, redundant, a waste of time, etc". Some chime into a perfectly civil thread with that attitude as well. I also find it rather rude when answers appear like:...go and read you manually or "google it" in an admonishing tone. If Google has all the answers, what have specialized photo-forums? I can't understand why, if someone is not interested in any particular topic, they just won't ignore it or move on and find something that does interest them. Perhaps they just want to become charter members of the local "trolls" club and fine entertainment value in creating chaos.

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Jun 16, 2020 12:15:57   #
BebuLamar
 
It should die because not only it's old thread but the OP idea was much worse than crop factor.

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Jun 16, 2020 12:30:26   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
BebuLamar wrote:
It should die because not only it's old thread but the OP idea was much worse than crop factor.

I understand his point, but I agree. Too abstract. It’s not going to gain any traction.


(Download)

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Jun 16, 2020 12:34:01   #
User ID
 
BebuLamar wrote:
It should die because not only it's old thread but the OP idea was much worse than crop factor.


Well it DID die.

Now folks are just watering the flowers on its grave ... don’t forget to zip up !

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