Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Question about extremely high ISO
Page <<first <prev 7 of 9 next> last>>
Jun 11, 2020 18:35:49   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Mickey Mantle wrote:
With the Sony’s, I rarely go over 6400

Your limit is set by your equipment and by your imagination. If someone would gift you with a D6, you might discover all kinds of uses for a higher ISO.

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 19:27:02   #
PierreD
 
Howard5252 wrote:
The Nikon D6 ad claims regarding the ISO: "... can be further expanded to ISO 50-3280000 (Lo 1 to Hi 5) to handle the most challenging of situations."
Does anyone know what the noise looks like at ISO 3,280,000 ??? Are the images actually usable?
I wonder what they mean by "challenging of situations"? Can it really take a photo of a black cat in a coal mine??


Only way to know is for you to try it and see what it looks like. My guess is that you will see... well, noise and just about nothing else, i.e., the challenge they refer to will consist in your identifying anything at all on the pictures!

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 19:38:02   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
Just numbers. Doesn't mean a rip if the image is unusable regardless of brand or model.

Reply
 
 
Jun 11, 2020 19:44:26   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
PierreD wrote:
Only way to know is for you to try it and see what it looks like. My guess is that you will see... well, noise and just about nothing else, i.e., the challenge they refer to will consist in your identifying anything at all on the pictures!
sirlensalot wrote:
Just numbers. Doesn't mean a rip if the image is unusable regardless of brand or model.

Have you tried it with a D6? Otherwise you cannot answer the question.
Multiply by four the ISO of my photo on the previous page
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-650809-6.html#11304905
and you have 3.2 M as the ISO. My "APS-C" camera isn't quite there, but you have no reason to be sure that a Nikon "FF" hasn't reached that level.

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 19:48:58   #
lowkick Loc: Connecticut
 
While some of today's cameras do a good job at higher ISO's, extremely high ISO's don't produce great results. That being said, getting the shot, regardless of the quality, is preferable to not getting the shot. If you see Bigfoot in the evening in a very dense forest, would you rather a grainy shot or no shot at all? As amateur photographers and even pros who shoot life events or photo art, the quality of the shot is very important to us. But If you are a journalist, or a scientist, just getting the shot under near impossible conditions often comes first.

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 19:56:49   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
Mickey Mantle wrote:
With the Sony’s, I rarely go over 6400

Which ancient Sony's are you talking about? Full frame mirrorless Sony's are some of best low light camera available.

bwa

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 19:57:01   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Mickey Mantle wrote:
I have never heard of anyone shooting in an iso of 100,000


I have done it a few times (probably fewer than 10). I estimate I was able to get useable photos in 50% of the shots (with a LOT of postprocessing). I should add the disclaimer that my shots are generally used on websites and in newsletters so they are not generally viewed at full resolution. So "useable" may not mean the same thing for me as it would for someone else.

Reply
 
 
Jun 11, 2020 20:06:10   #
Jack 13088 Loc: Central NY
 
burkphoto wrote:

My experience with 16 to 20 MP sensors is that I find my personal quality degradation tolerance stops at:

ISO 6400 for Micro 4/3
ISO 12,800 for APS-C/DX
ISO 25,600 for Full Frame

I try to limit this to

ISO 3200 for Micro 4/3
ISO 6400 for APS-C/DX
ISO 12,800 for Full Frame

... and a full stop below those when possible!... It will take a jump to newer technology to make any huge strides in sensor performance at this point.


Your observations are the same as my more limited conclusions. And I can assure you that Physics is not going to permit much more improvement in sensor technology.

The rule is the bigger the area of the sensor cell or pixel the better the signal to noise. Hence, with the same number of pixels a full frame sensor will be a full stop better than a DX sensor. Likewise a 20 MP sensor will be one stop better than a 40 MP sensor.

Nikon seems to be consistent in stating the max ISO before going to the emergency Hi settings as the highest ISO before color noise dominates. I find two stops before that as my limit of niceness.

I believe that given the nature of the IC foundry business model the state of the art sensors will be built by Samsung or Sony foundries and will be of similar design (no secrets in that business). Current sensors are well enough designed to be limited by the quantum efficiency (The percentage of photons that land on the sensor that are counted.)of the sensor cell. Currently the QE is greater than 50% only one stop bellow max possible. All of this is at near room temperature thermal noise. Liquid nitrogen anyone?

That only leaves clever post processing either in camera or computer tomake the picture look more like you expect.

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 20:12:06   #
User ID
 
lowkick wrote:
While some of today's cameras do a good job at higher ISO's, extremely high ISO's don't produce great results. That being said, getting the shot, regardless of the quality, is preferable to not getting the shot. If you see Bigfoot in the evening in a very dense forest, would you rather a grainy shot or no shot at all? As amateur photographers and even pros who shoot life events or photo art, the quality of the shot is very important to us. But If you are a journalist, or a scientist, just getting the shot under near impossible conditions often comes first.
While some of today's cameras do a good job at hig... (show quote)


All Bigfoot images are grainy and have various other serious flaws. If anyone catches a Bigfoot shot as clear and detailed as a fine National Geographic image then everyone would say it’s just a PS fake !!!

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 20:13:16   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
Runninglate wrote:
I by far am no expert when it comes to camera issues. But, I would suggest taking some time (we all seem to have a lot of that right now) take a number of pictures with various ISO settings. Eventually you will decide when the pictures become unacceptable. I conducted this experiment with my D300 and I now know where I feel I should stop increasing the ISO settings. Just my thought on this question.


Did that also with my three Nikons. Each one had a different Max ISO that I found to be acceptable. Helps when I set max limits on Auto ISO.

Reply
Jun 11, 2020 20:40:36   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
burkphoto wrote:
From the tests I've seen, ISO 3,280,000 looks pretty awful. There's very little color, lots of noise, and an extremely limited tonal range.

Whether such high ISO images are usable depends upon your application. Spy work? Probably. Portraits? Extremely unlikely to hell no! Photojournalism? Only in dire circumstances. Some reviewers say they would tolerate ISO 102,400 for photojournalism, but I think that is pushing the envelope unrealistically.

I take these camera sensitivity claims with a grain of salt. Image technical quality is usually best at base ISO. As you raise the ISO, the dynamic range is lowered. Color reproduction is muted. Noise intrudes. Latitude for post-processing adjustment is narrowed until it goes away. There is a point at which every stop of higher ISO takes away a full stop of dynamic range that could have been printed on paper from an image made at a lower ISO. That's the point of zero latitude as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to go that low.

My experience with 16 to 20 MP sensors is that I find my personal quality degradation tolerance stops at:

ISO 6400 for Micro 4/3
ISO 12,800 for APS-C/DX
ISO 25,600 for Full Frame

I try to limit this to

ISO 3200 for Micro 4/3
ISO 6400 for APS-C/DX
ISO 12,800 for Full Frame

... and a full stop below those when possible! I like to start thinking about auxiliary lighting when ISO gets above 800 on Micro 4/3, 1600 on APS-C/DX, and 3200 on full frame. I don't necessarily use it, and can't always add it, but I think about it.

These personal guidelines are based upon reviewing tests of Nikon D5, Nikon D500, and Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 and DC-GH5 cameras, including prints and dxomark.com scores. The dxomark scores correlate quite well to my own observations.

My personal guidelines may not relate at all to the D6, because I've only seen promotional/review images from that camera. HOWEVER, the sensor is so similar to that in the D5 that I doubt the high ISO performance will be very different. Most of the improvements in the D6 seem to be related to the viewfinder, AF, and other usability features. It will take a jump to newer technology to make any huge strides in sensor performance at this point.
From the tests I've seen, ISO 3,280,000 looks pret... (show quote)


My highest acceptable ISO limits for my AP-S-C Nikons are D50: 1600 D90: 3200 D3400: 6400 These are my preferred limits but I try to keep them at one stop lower or more whenever possible.

Reply
 
 
Jun 11, 2020 21:39:29   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Jack 13088 wrote:
Your observations are the same as my more limited conclusions. And I can assure you that Physics is not going to permit much more improvement in sensor technology.

The rule is the bigger the area of the sensor cell or pixel the better the signal to noise. Hence, with the same number of pixels a full frame sensor will be a full stop better than a DX sensor. Likewise a 20 MP sensor will be one stop better than a 40 MP sensor.

Nikon seems to be consistent in stating the max ISO before going to the emergency Hi settings as the highest ISO before color noise dominates. I find two stops before that as my limit of niceness.

I believe that given the nature of the IC foundry business model the state of the art sensors will be built by Samsung or Sony foundries and will be of similar design (no secrets in that business). Current sensors are well enough designed to be limited by the quantum efficiency (The percentage of photons that land on the sensor that are counted.)of the sensor cell. Currently the QE is greater than 50% only one stop bellow max possible. All of this is at near room temperature thermal noise. Liquid nitrogen anyone?

That only leaves clever post processing either in camera or computer tomake the picture look more like you expect.
Your observations are the same as my more limited ... (show quote)



Reply
Jun 11, 2020 21:42:02   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Well if that is your point I can understand that part of it but it is not as simple as that alone.

davesit wrote:
My point is not that fast lenses are obsolete, but rather if F1.8 today is the new F1.4 because of improvements in sensor technology, signal processing etc...

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 06:29:12   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
sigi1 wrote:
Do you guys do this all the time? I’d be afraid to ask a question!


Yes, we do it ALL the time. Isn't life interesting when your not face to face.

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 16:44:59   #
fantom Loc: Colorado
 
digit-up wrote:
Marketing......MARKETING, seems to be NIKONS only real BIG “strength”.Otherwise, Got nothin’ much over anybody else, In My NOT-SO HUMBLE opinion!!...........................................................................RJM


Nikon's low light, high ISO performance is significantly better than its DSLR competition. I have conducted several impartial tests trying to find system that is better than say, for example, the D750 and 780. This camera (and I assume other Nikon cameras) are just as good and have exemplary low light capabilities.
So, RJM, I am afraid that your HUMBLE OPINION, is badly mistaken.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 7 of 9 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.