bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada

Same here! One of the dumbest 'improvements'!!

bwa

pendennis

In the 1970's, designers were starting to round the corners, seeking a bit more in the way of aerodynamics. Automakers were being forced to improve gas mileage, and wind tunnel test results were telling designers to make designs more flowing. Some of the drawings I saw were genuinely stunning.

However, there were two things standing in the way - the design committee, and manufacturing realities. The 1979 Crown Victoria was very smooth in the first drawings. But by the time the design approval process was finished, some people had taken a hack saw, and squared off the corners. The second thing was actual manufacturing. It was hard enough to hold sheet metal specs going through the stamping plants, and aero shapes were really difficult to hold to spec. U.S. manufacturing just wasn't up to date.

Ford didn't hit it right until the 1986 Taurus/Sable, when Philip Caldwell, then Don Petersen put their collective feet down, and refused to allow the sheet metal to be squared. They'd seen success with the T-Bird in 1983, and it really got to GM. Roger Smith famously called the Taurus a "jelly bean", but sales were so good that Petersen retorted, "I bet Roger wishes he had some of those jelly beans to sell".

jhkfly

I say again: Malcontents! Misery mongers!

The world will end in twelve years, right? All our problems will be solved!

chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand

Nitrogen in tires is a gimmick and an excuse to charge you more. If the reason is to keep moisture away from pressure sensors then they should be adding moisture traps to the air hoses like are used on diving tank compressors. Air is already 80% nitrogen.
And do you notice that over time you need to add a little more pressure into your tires ? What do you use and where from ? And what about 4WD drivers who regularly let their tire pressure down to drive over sand.
Nitrogen is purely a money making venture by car dealers and a seemingly unlimited supply of gullible customers.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Maybe (a money maker), but telephone companies have been using nitrogen to purge conduits for decades to get rid of moisture. Air is, in fact, 80% nitrogen, but as you mention, air has a large amount of moisture - everyone who owns a compressor and drains the tank knows how much. You are correct that air compressors for scuba tanks are special - no moisture OR oil, but service stations and tire dealers are not likely to afford one. We have such a compressor at the company that I consult for. The way you remove moisture from compressed air is the same way you remove it from room air - with a second compressor, cooling system and a condenser that the air passes over before entering the reservoir. The one we have cost $8,000.

Leo Perez

No fun looking or doing the same ole thing. Windows updates. You got to love them. Now it's the chat sites, let's make them as confusing as they can, poor ole people in nurse homes want to talk and see their families and don't how to start or run the damn programs. Don't believe try zoom, friendly my butt.

TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA

You mean those changes that are touted as enhancements that justify the price of upgrades?

chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand

There are many ways to remove moisture from air including the one above from TriX. However there are plenty of others and the cost of these isn't necessarily too expensive for a local garage. Using an air filter and PMV valve removes 99.3% of the moisture. So garages can afford this equipment. Whether they want to bother especially with the included maintenance is moot. And I guess that sourcing Nitrogen cylinders (and keeping spares) is also a maintenance issue.
I have seen some horrendous figures quoted by car dealers to provide Nitrogen and they wouldn't offer this unless they had gullible customers (or customers with more money than sense). Because if you happened to be a good car user and checked your tire pressures once a week then that is a lot of trips to your dealer.
Using Nitrogen is one of those things that the average car user probably has no idea about and can be easily frightened into thinking it is necessary for the longevity of his tires. There are dozens of things that could be done for a car but we don't bother and using Nitrogen is only one of them.
Most changes to cars are not actually required but they are added for a variety of reasons. Most of them are usually done because it makes the car cheaper to build, and safety benefits are only secondary. And we wouldn't need the safety aspects if we weren't such hopeless drivers.

Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore

Whats wrong with this guy

Ollieboy

I've been told by many mechanics in the auto repair business that nitrogen for tires is a scam and revenue enhancer. My personal car pressure sensors lasted for 13 years on regular air.

Ollieboy

The best and latest scam I saw was for socks. This company actually solved a problem that didn't exist. They offer socks in exact sizes. To think that I was actually settling for a size 9-12 sock for most of my life.

jhkfly

Hey, Sidwalkastronomy, did you get any good shots of the full moon the other night? I did reasonably well with my Questar and Sony A7-2.

domcomm Loc: Denver, CO

I agree completely!!!

rhadams824 Loc: Arkansas

If the establishment really wanted to help America they would mandate that mechanical and electronic design engineers must work in the field for a year repairing these marvels. I guarantee they would be better designs that are easier on which to work. This would result in less cost for repairs to the consumer. They have gotten better in some areas but it is very frustrating to try to repair most of these machines.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Hey guys, I am by no means endorsing Nitrogen for tires, just stating the rationale for the use. The reason I pointed this out is that some apparently believe the purpose is to prevent air loss over time from tires. They conveniently ignore the fact that air is ~80% Nitrogen, but I’ve had a hell of a time convincing one of my otherwise knowledgeable “car guy” friends that was sure it was a good investment. Interestingly, some pro rally teams used to run Nitrogen in their tires to supposedly minimize tire expansion with heat throwing off their speed/distance calculations. Guess they never heard of the universal gas constant.

My wife’s car (2008) came with TP sensors and Nitrogen. I ignored it and kept the tires topped up with air from my compressor, which does not have filtration except for spraying finishes. I changed tires a couple of years ago, and I feel sure they were filled with regular compressed air. The first TP sensor failed last year, so reasonable life.

Btw, while I agree Nitrogen is probably overkill for tire pressure sensors, I don’t know that I am down with that 99.3% drying from a simple filter. We used one, which was periodically self- draining, for our 100K$ CNC milling machine, and found it inadequate, hence the reason we spent 8K for a screw-type compressor with a condensing moisture removal system.